NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Bulbazak]

Those on it should be scrutinized, especially because not a single one has bothered to actually explain why I am scum.

For me, it's the emphasis on lynching based on who we want in endgame, instead of scumhunting, which is a scum attitude, not a town one, not to mention the heap loads of WIFOM you keep dumping into the thread.

[Aegor]

There was very little consensus on scum suspects and despite 55 pages of game there was very little actual content and even less compelling content. I am not exempting myself from the problem.

Given those two factors, getting rid of useless players and getting to an endgame with active players on whom reads are possible is an excellent strategy. But whatever. Proceed.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 2.9

Albert B. Rampage (3) - Nobody Special, Zdenek, Zekrom25
Nobody Special (3) - The Fonz, emeraldemon, Albert B. Rampage
Aegor (3) - Aegor, Tony PF, Bulbazak
Bulbazak (2) - inHimshallibe, Garmr
Tony PF (1) - Chevre
Zdenek (1) - Sotty7
Sotty7 (1) - OhGodMyLife
inHimshallibe (1) - Thor665


Not voting (2) - kabooooom, Matias


With seventeen players alive, it takes nine votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day Two is Friday, 21st February 20.00 GMT, (in (expired on 2014-02-21 20:00:00)).

Note:

Still looking for replacement for OhGodMyLife.
kabooooom is V/LA until 17th Feb.
Thor665 is V/LA from 18th to 21st Feb.

[Thor665]

For the record, my desire to lynch someone at all and the impending deadline are the only reasons I am okay with my own lynch.

So, with deadline beating down the door of four days away, your lynch is better than...working on any other lynch.


I have too many people I want to see dead and too many of them clamoring to be on that list due to policy reasons alone.
I honestly sort of thought when I got into this game that, due to the setup, it would be full of semi-sane players as opposed to the twinks currently infesting the site.
I am disappoint.

[Thor665]

Meh.

Unvote: InhimshallIbe
Vote: Aegor

Let's ride this one, I'm starting not to even care.

[Nobody Special]

Thor, what are you talking about? I was one of, if not the, most mentioned players in the top three lists. Plenty of other people hate me.

No they don't. They have you as a soft tertiary at best. There is no effort besides mine about discussing your immediate death.

Tertiary out of 17 players? That would qualify as hate.

VOTE: Aegor. Let's end this.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aegor

There is absolutely no town motivation to do that.

Please explain to me the scum motivation.

[Garmr]

Meh.

Unvote: InhimshallIbe
Vote: Aegor

Let's ride this one, I'm starting not to even care.

VOTE: thor

I keep telling you guys this slots opportunistic scum I feel like I'm dealing with a bunch scrubs.

[Aegor]

So, with deadline beating down the door of four days away, your lynch is better than...working on any other lynch.


I have too many people I want to see dead and too many of them clamoring to be on that list due to policy reasons alone.
I honestly sort of thought when I got into this game that, due to the setup, it would be full of semi-sane players as opposed to the twinks currently infesting the site.
I am disappoint.

Get real and do not call me insane. Do you really think that I could swing a lynch in three days? I have been clamoring for votes on Zekrom, kabooom, and NS for some time now. No traction AT ALL, except a little on NS. And now I am at four or five votes in like a page? Come on. Why do you think that is?

This game is mountainous. It is always better to lynch than to no lynch. If you have some magical case against someone, go ahead and present it. Otherwise, take the small step off your soapbox and stop complaining about how useless everyone else is when you are doing squat to actually scumhunt, which is apparently important to you.

VOTE: Thor665

[Tony PF]

Thor, what are you talking about? I was one of, if not the, most mentioned players in the top three lists. Plenty of other people hate me.

No they don't. They have you as a soft tertiary at best. There is no effort besides mine about discussing your immediate death.

Tertiary out of 17 players? That would qualify as hate.

VOTE: Aegor. Let's end this.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aegor

There is absolutely no town motivation to do that.

Please explain to me the scum motivation.

To get other players to end the day early.

[Garmr]

Thor, what are you talking about? I was one of, if not the, most mentioned players in the top three lists. Plenty of other people hate me.

No they don't. They have you as a soft tertiary at best. There is no effort besides mine about discussing your immediate death.

Tertiary out of 17 players? That would qualify as hate.

VOTE: Aegor. Let's end this.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aegor

There is absolutely no town motivation to do that.

Please explain to me the scum motivation.

To get other players to end the day early.

By getting himself lynched and playing against his win condition?

[Thor665]

Get real and do not call me insane. Do you really think that I could swing a lynch in three days? I have been clamoring for votes on Zekrom, kabooom, and NS for some time now. No traction AT ALL, except a little on NS. And now I am at four or five votes in like a page? Come on. Why do you think that is?

Well...first off, your clamoring was, literally, just that. You never actually tried to engage anyone or convince anyone, you were just going with repitition and trying to act like that was a case.
Despite this, your "little bit of traction on NS" remained the LARGEST WAGON IN THE GAME AT THAT POINT.
At that point, with only me even commenting about you - you decided to vote yourself.

The reason your wagon got so big so quickly is a mix of people being lazy right now and you AtEing like a boss - and people love to vote AtE.
Also, this shockingly huge wagon on you...it's not much bigger than that super difficult one "you" got on NS.
So...I dunno, what does that mean?

This game is mountainous. It is always better to lynch than to no lynch. If you have some magical case against someone, go ahead and present it. Otherwise, take the small step off your soapbox and stop complaining about how useless everyone else is when you are doing squat to actually scumhunt, which is apparently important to you.

I'm actually doing quite a bit to scumhunt. Heck, if what you're doing qualifies, then I am doing that *and* also actually discussing stuff with people, meaning if I am not doing much, you are somehow doing less.
So, whether my soapbox is large or small, it must still exist.

Regardless of the basic core strategy that "a lynch is better than a no lynch" you are, nonetheless, advocating a vote on a person you (theoretically) know to be confirmed town.
Hint - that is never a good play...except maybe in some weird multiball setups or in Reverse Mafia, or unless you are scum. Is this one of those situations? If so, I retract any claims I have about the lack of quality of your current play.

[Thor665]

I keep telling you guys this slots opportunistic scum I feel like I'm dealing with a bunch scrubs.

Yes, though I submit your definition of opportunistic doesn't jive with mine.
For instance, the wagon on Aegor? I created it - that's not opportunism.
You can probably suggest I'm scum trying to push for a mislynch, but at least accuse me of things I am actually doing and would actually do as scum.

[Aegor]

Well...first off, your clamoring was, literally, just that. You never actually tried to engage anyone or convince anyone, you were just going with repitition and trying to act like that was a case.

The repetition was not ill-founded. I believe in policy lynches. I also believe that they should occur as early in the game as possible. They are even better in this game because there is no chance of lynching PRs but some chance of lynching scum.

Despite this, your "little bit of traction on NS" remained the LARGEST WAGON IN THE GAME AT THAT POINT.
At that point, with only me even commenting about you - you decided to vote yourself.

You are straight-up lying. Other players had been commenting on me for pages, and out of the SEVENTEEN PLAYERS alive, I was in the top three for almost everyone who responded to my query.

The reason your wagon got so big so quickly is a mix of people being lazy right now and you AtEing like a boss - and people love to vote AtE.

In which case my flip will yield some nice lynch suspects for tomorrow.

Also, this shockingly huge wagon on you...it's not much bigger than that super difficult one "you" got on NS.
So...I dunno, what does that mean?

Compare the speeds.

I'm actually doing quite a bit to scumhunt.

No, you are not. Scumhunting results in solid leads and solid cases against specific players. That is not happening with you. You "hate" me but have no case on me. And the deadline is three days away. No one legitimately scumhunting would risk waiting until after that to present a case against a player they really want lynched.

Regardless of the basic core strategy that "a lynch is better than a no lynch" you are, nonetheless, advocating a vote on a person you (theoretically) know to be confirmed town. Hint - that is never a good play...except maybe in some weird multiball setups or in Reverse Mafia, or unless you are scum. Is this one of those situations? If so, I retract any claims I have about the lack of quality of your current play.

It is not necessarily bad play. I find it unlikely that your tunneling on me will ever end, so I may as well free you up to look at other suspects or get lynched yourself. But you are crazy if you think it is good for me as town to be fighting tooth and nail for my continued survival in a mountainous game until lylo.

[Tony PF]

No they don't. They have you as a soft tertiary at best. There is no effort besides mine about discussing your immediate death.

Tertiary out of 17 players? That would qualify as hate.

VOTE: Aegor. Let's end this.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Aegor

There is absolutely no town motivation to do that.

Please explain to me the scum motivation.

To get other players to end the day early.

By getting himself lynched and playing against his win condition?

I'm not answering that.

[Aegor]

Tony PF, the day is not ending early. It would be ending on time. Deadline lynches are the worst possible lynch for town and anyone advocating them in any way, in theory or practice, will receive a vote from me that will not move until one of us is dead.

[Bulbazak]

I'm not answering that.

Why not?

[Thor665]

The repetition was not ill-founded. I believe in policy lynches. I also believe that they should occur as early in the game as possible. They are even better in this game because there is no chance of lynching PRs but some chance of lynching scum.

Yes, I agree your case was shallow and based on repetition and policy as opposed to scumhunting. Heck, i thought I already made clear that this was the basis of my case on you.

You are straight-up lying. Other players had been commenting on me for pages, and out of the SEVENTEEN PLAYERS alive, I was in the top three for almost everyone who responded to my query.

If you don't think I started the wagon on you I'd be fascinated to hear who you think did.

Compare the speeds.

The wagon on you built faster than the one on NS. It also built faster than the one that never happened on InHim. It also was harder to start than the one on Zekrom.
What information should I now glean from this info?
Does this mean you *and* NS are town since you were so easy to start wagons on compared to InHim, and that InHim is scum?
Or does it mean something else?

You "hate" me but have no case on me. And the deadline is three days away. No one legitimately scumhunting would risk waiting until after that to present a case against a player they really want lynched.

I'd presented my case on you days ago.
It got traction when you AtEed.

It is not necessarily bad play.

This from "policy lynch lurkers"?

I find it unlikely that your tunneling on me will ever end, so I may as well free you up to look at other suspects or get lynched yourself. But you are crazy if you think it is good for me as town to be fighting tooth and nail for my continued survival in a mountainous game until lylo.

I always think it is a good policy, as town, to fight your lynch.
When I am town I have never had it in my wincon to mislynch town nor to hand scum easy mislynches.
Maybe I play badly, but that's how I read the role PMs.

[Aegor]

Yes, I agree your case was shallow and based on repetition and policy as opposed to scumhunting. Heck, i thought I already made clear that this was the basis of my case on you.

Policy lynches are not scummy.

If you don't think I started the wagon on you I'd be fascinated to hear who you think did.

You said that you were the only one talking about me. Now you are saying that you started the wagon. Stop moving the goalposts.

The wagon on you built faster than the one on NS. It also built faster than the one that never happened on InHim. It also was harder to start than the one on Zekrom.
What information should I now glean from this info?

You keep saying that you have been scumhunting and I have not been. Surely you know better than to ask me.

I'd presented my case on you days ago.
It got traction when you AtEed.

You never presented a case. You kept asking me inane questions and not listening to my responses, instead asking more questions with obvious answers.

This from "policy lynch lurkers"?

The two positions are not incompatible.

I always think it is a good policy, as town, to fight your lynch.

I happen to think otherwise.

When I am town I have never had it in my wincon to mislynch town nor to hand scum easy mislynches.
Maybe I play badly, but that's how I read the role PMs.

We read role PMs differently. My role PM says that I win when all maf are lynched. Yours must be more detailed. I guess that proves I am scum.

I will happily self-hammer if we are getting close to deadline. I want a lynch lined up at least 48 hours before deadline.

[Tony PF]

I'm not answering that.

Why not?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Thor

Because I'm changing my vote.

[Garmr]

I keep telling you guys this slots opportunistic scum I feel like I'm dealing with a bunch scrubs.

Yes, though I submit your definition of opportunistic doesn't jive with mine.
For instance, the wagon on Aegor? I created it - that's not opportunism.
You can probably suggest I'm scum trying to push for a mislynch, but at least accuse me of things I am actually doing and would actually do as scum.

I'm just curious why you would defend ABR using the argument that he's playing within his meta, but do the same for NS.

Because the ABR wagon felt bad - the NS one doesn't.
Again, I don't feel like I've been subtle in my thoughts here, I came around pretty quick to not liking the ABR wagon, and I felt my transition was rather super obvious when it happened.
Conversely, why are you so worried about the NS wagon, but are totally fine with the ABR one?

Thor665: Basically, I feel like if you don't read Day 1 before starting Day 2, aren't you essentially starting on Day 1 again? Day 1 in all its Fortune gives town a sense of how everyone is playing and posting, plus a plethora of votes and reasons. That feels condescending to say because I find it so simple.

So...what you think I might miss is "a sense of how everyone is playing and posting" which is something I can get from, y'know, asking people their takes on Day 1 (which, amusingly, already has people disagreeing about how Day 1 went down - which is pro town to have discussion about) and also I miss "votes and reasons" which, if I need to, I can iso those specific bits out later if wanted.

So...yes, I think my method has validity in how I'm doing it.

Were there any big events that you think I missed? I mean, not like generic "Sense" events but "these three posts" type events? Anything you think might really affect my read of one or more players? I'd read that stuff, if you can dial it in. What do you think, of import, happened Day 1?

My initial reasoning for my emogirl vote is that I found her suspicious plus her lynch would be rife with information.

Is she still a good lynch now?

In that catchup post, Fonz mentions how emogirl wagon supporters have forgotten about her, and I think there are multiple reasons:
a) most of the suspicion stemmed from her playstyle rather than actual scummy things, but also
b) I reiterate that after her wagon's death she did sort of disappear, and then through the Slandaar/emeraldemon/Brian debate her posts were kind of fluffy (she referenced, out of the blue, an essay on synergy?). I think this is scummy.

a) That seems a bad reason to suspect someone.
b) So you're saying she avoided discussing the main wagons?

@Emogirl - I note that you disagree with Chevre - can you quote me a moment or two of you discussing the main wagons once you were no longer the focus?

I do not understand how a discussion of my meta vs. ABR's meta is in any way useful.

That's not really what the discussion is about.

What is your read on Chevre?

Thor scum game is top notch but when you jump on him like that it must frustrate him a little inside.

Why must that frustrate me to have my scumbuddy jump on me? I'm pretty sure part of my usual commentary to scumbuddies is 'feel free to bus me' so I'm curious why you think this.

[Zekrom] has to go now before it becomes an issue later in the game. Would also be willing to lynch ABR for similar reasons.

That being said, Fonz's wall against NS and ABR is quite compelling.

So, you are willing to lynch Zekrom or ABR for the same reasons?
Also, Fonz's wall against ABR is compelling.
...why wouldn't you vote ABR right now? Why are you voting Zekrom first?

Unvote: Nobody Special
Vote: Aegor

Serious vote.

So you question chev and vote aegor. Yet your up for a policy lynch on zekrom as shown in your latter posts?

I find zekrom more scummy and I want him gone with more urgency than I want ABR gone.

Why?
Your posts seemed to express equality between them though mentioned that someone else's commentary was favorable to you, and that was about ABR, so why do you believe the less supported wagon should go first, and why did you vote it over an ABR wagon?

Why are you skimming the game?

I ISO'd The Fonz. I seriously have no idea what post you are referring to.

How about you read the post you're quoting me from again, and then answer why you're skimming the game.
Especially if you want me to believe you're town.

Completely bogus reasoning for voting ABR. And his posting will never provide us with a read. And check our mutual game history.

What is his 'bogus' reason for voting ABR, a slot you think is scummy?
Also, what about your game history should I bother looking for when I fakeclaim that I searched it?

Your just laying down questions with out actually putting a case forward. I don't understand why anyone be pressured by that?

Unvote: Aegor
Vote: Inhimshallibe

What made you think inhim was a stronger scum read than Aegor or did you have another reason for jumping off the wagon in the first place?



Dibbsing rights to say I told you so when thor flips scum.


ebwop been ninjaed by thor and aegor can't be bothered reading before posting.

[Thor665]

Policy lynches are not scummy.

Like all scumtells, that's a matter of opinion.

You said that you were the only one talking about me. Now you are saying that you started the wagon. Stop moving the goalposts.

I was the only one talking about you, and I was the one who started the wagon on you because of that fact.

The wagon on you built faster than the one on NS. It also built faster than the one that never happened on InHim. It also was harder to start than the one on Zekrom.
What information should I now glean from this info?

You keep saying that you have been scumhunting and I have not been. Surely you know better than to ask me.

I thought you had some ideas about this info. Was I wrong?

This from "policy lynch lurkers"?

The two positions are not incompatible.

Perhaps not, but I do submit there is some easy to spot intrinsic hypocrisy in believing both at the same time.

I happen to think otherwise.

I pray that you are always town when I am scum, and never town when I am town then.

We read role PMs differently. My role PM says that I win when all maf are lynched. Yours must be more detailed. I guess that proves I am scum.

Probably so.

[Aegor]

Like all scumtells, that's a matter of opinion.

Tells cannot be matters of opinion, otherwise they would not be tells.

I was the only one talking about you, and I was the one who started the wagon on you because of that fact.

Lies. I was mentioned in the posts of other players, which means other players were talking about me.

I thought you had some ideas about this info. Was I wrong?

I will let the players read between the lines on that one.

Perhaps not, but I do submit there is some easy to spot intrinsic hypocrisy in believing both at the same time.

It is impossible for them to be compatible and hypocritical. Either they are incompatible or it is possible to believe both without hypocrisy.

I pray that you are always town when I am scum, and never town when I am town then.

You should probably wait until we both flip to make that prayer.

[Tony PF]

Like all scumtells, that's a matter of opinion.

Tells cannot be matters of opinion, otherwise they would not be tells.

Lie. It all comes down to personal opinion on what constitutes a tell. Stuff that looks like everyone says it's a scum tell may simply be current site meta.

[Thor665]

Let's see, my current people to want to bounce stuff off;

@Sotty7
@Fonz
@Zdenek

Well, for starters, I think Fonz still owes me some feedback on InHim (and, really, where were you on that one, Zdenek?) also, Sotty needs to stop being a lurk sack.
Now, I'm about to become presence non exitant in this thread till...well, deadline. Possibly a bit beyond. So what I'd love to have you guys chat about is ol' Aegor here. I'm conflicted on him and NS but I'm just not going to be around to press on either of them.

With Aegor, his defense looks *immensely* bad to me, he's throwing up AtE while *also* claiming he's willing to die for the town (which begs the question of why he's defending...?) and then, as a third, is not actually willing to discuss the reads and thoughts he is asking others to consider.
Now, that reads pretty bad to me.
The possible counterpoint to it (and th eonly one I see) is he's just gut a burr up his backside as involves Thor (shocking, i know, but it is a thing ) so the question to debate is - are the above listed actions because he's scum, or because he's a weak player who has become offended at me on a personal level and stopped playing the game?

The other consideration is NS. Now, I'll admit, I'd feel better about this if we had gotten a wagon worth "anything at all" on him first. But, he was still the biggest wagon, and as soon as a counter wagon starts up his immediate reaction is to light defend Aegor. Now, I'm faaar too lazy right now to check, but could someone go back into his ISO and see if he had already expressed pro-town thoughts about Aegor? If the answer is "no" then I would very much like to turn the Aegor wagon around and just speed lynch NS for lulz. If the answer is "yes" ...eh...at that point it becomes muddier for me, and I probably advocate lynching Aegor because then NS' reaction looks a bit more townish.

Also, quite frankly, if you guys spin it around on InHim I'd be there in preference to either of the above.
I'd probably accept Al as a 4th option, but only out of personal distaste for his town game, which is a terrible reason to lynch someone but...hey, someone has to be my fourth option.
I'll promise to log on at least once prior to deadline to try to connect on all of this again.
Please don't half-arse replies.

[Bulbazak]

I'm not answering that.

Why not?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Thor

Because I'm changing my vote.

Why are you changing your vote? Because you can't answer a question posed to you regarding Aegor?

I pray that you are always town when I am scum, and never town when I am town then.

You should probably wait until we both flip to make that prayer.

Something's wrong with this statement, but I can't figure out what.