NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[pieguyn]

I'm also wondering why you're not telling me my reads are bad despite you literally doing the exact same thing to other people who have you as scum via POE. is it bc you're trying to buddy me?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

also plz explain your read on me

Mostly gut, but your posts have started reading genuine when you're not HARDCORE TUNNEL MODE, and you seem to be genuinely scumhunting.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'm also wondering why you're not telling me my reads are bad despite you literally doing the exact same thing to other people who have you as scum via POE. is it bc you're trying to buddy me?

See my previous points: I don't ACTUALLY care what the particular reads are as long as I can see where a person is coming from.

Besides I'm a hardcore buddier as scum and generally push on hardcore buddy mode right in the beginning. See http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=24646

[Prophylaxis]

I'm here, and vanilla town.

Planning to dedicate some time to this game during this weekend.

[Norlkaz]

Sorry to disappoint you, but there's no significant chance of lynching me this game.
It turns out I'm town, I'm here, and my volume is only going to go up.

See like this doesn't actually work when you don't read town.

Also it look dangerously close to the scum's "I'm obv town whoever wants to lynch me is stupid" thought.

Interesting.

I've already done plenty to be obviously town (my treatments of like every person to get lynched this game have been NON-BELIEVABLY GOOD if I'm scum), but HURRICANE MODE is only just turning on so you're for given for not knowing the utter futility of trying to lynch me when my motivation for the game has stopped flagging.

Nobody ever pointed me to Nacho-Sakura. Whatever, I will go look through their 1060 post combined ISO myself.
#7783 sounds like a scum post. I didn't like Casso OR Proph in relation to Titus yesterday; they both had a very 'get out of the way and let townies make themselves look bad to secure future lynches' attitude.
#7793 sounds like it was prepared at night. What spurred you to make that post, Pieguy?

[Ms Marangal]

Why are we both still alive?

whywhywhywhywhy

Nacho, plz don't be scum. I need a rock.

and yes, we did confirm our daytalk, FFery asked a question that would have taken more than a few minutes to find the answer to, and I had correctly provided it.

[Norlkaz]

Through the first half of the first page of the combined ISO, Sakura looks town for the late arrival; the story seems honest and scum are a little more likely to know what's going on with a day QT to take a look at. Casso looks scummy because the only things they talk about are Thor's frustration with Nacho not being posting head and the wagons not being bigger. Nothing to suggest serious effortses from them yet.

Sakura 897 is pretty uninsightful / making up stuff to say about a buddy - ish. I despise "why didn't you apply that to me" in general as it's an obvious non-tell. Sakura is otherwise town so far.

Generic 437 looks Casso-scum.

Casso also looks bad in general in relation to F16 proposal, 1018 with SSK, and basically everything ever.

Gah 1125 also looks bad for SH. "I want to move my vote but it's on my buddy so I don't wanna move it yet."
And 1178. The old "haven't seen things I expect from X" cuz I B scum and I wanna say something non-false. No wonder SH got wagoned.

Alright, well the first 200 of those 1000 posts look cruddy for both parties. That's not surprising for Casso whose first few hundred posts were pretty untown on last pass anyway.
SH's wait what on MC's Proph read is a minor buddyping there too.
I guess unless things change I am not going to be short for scumreads.

[Norlkaz]

Can you link me to the QA Mara, or at least give a postnumber? I have written you off but I'd rather take a look and decide whether I want another round.

[goodmorning]

Did Mara / GM actually confirm their daytalk? Because if not I want one of them to post a hard puzzle or math problem and the other to post the answer / explanation within 1 minute of each other.

We did.

Nacho, plz don't be scum. I need a rock.

Mara. I have some bad news.

Can you link me to the QA Mara, or at least give a postnumber? I have written you off but I'd rather take a look and decide whether I want another round.

7444 is the question.
7447 is the answer.

[Empire]

Day 7, Votecount 2

Not Voting (9)

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Casso the King of Seals, Ms Marangal, Prophylaxis, pieguyn, Norlkaz, KoreanBBQ, goodmorning, Sakura Hana, Ser Arthur Dayne

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch! Deadline is on March 7th at 3:25 PM EST or in (expired on 2014-03-07 16:22:01).

Mod Notes

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N/A

[Casso the King of Seals]

also the way you called it a stupid lynch sounds like you thought that's what it was before the actual lynch. you're lamenting everyone else for what you thought was a "stupid lynch" which makes it sound like you were always against her lynch.

Umm well yeah I always had this deep gut feeling that she was town (see my thoughts on her before I agreed with you) and basically got "peer pressured" (idk I hate that term but can't think of something better atm) into thinking she was scum.

@Pie okay I might see your point (even though I think people should play the game emotionally detached in game (versus out of game) but w/e).

My emotions factor very heavily into how I play this game because I play this game to understand people and a emotions are usually king.

[Casso the King of Seals]

also the way you called it a stupid lynch sounds like you thought that's what it was before the actual lynch. you're lamenting everyone else for what you thought was a "stupid lynch" which makes it sound like you were always against her lynch.

Umm well yeah I always had this deep gut feeling that she was town (see my thoughts on her before I agreed with you) and basically got "peer pressured" (idk I hate that term but can't think of something better atm) into thinking she was scum.

How, exactly? You didn't seem to have a problem resisting lynches elsewhere.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Norl, could you give me post links in your posts? I would love to engage you more, but most of my opportunities to sink time into the game come in short bursts and navigating pages + opening new tabs eats up a lot of time on tablet.

[Sakura Hana]

No idea who to lynch atm, i was pretty sure Titus was scum =/

[KoreanBBQ]

vote:hana

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

also the way you called it a stupid lynch sounds like you thought that's what it was before the actual lynch. you're lamenting everyone else for what you thought was a "stupid lynch" which makes it sound like you were always against her lynch.

Umm well yeah I always had this deep gut feeling that she was town (see my thoughts on her before I agreed with you) and basically got "peer pressured" (idk I hate that term but can't think of something better atm) into thinking she was scum.

How, exactly? You didn't seem to have a problem resisting lynches elsewhere.

Because literally everyone else thought she was scum and I was like "fuck it maybe I'm wrong"?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Sakura the fact that you have started putting 0 effort into this game is really worrying.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

@Pie do you think sakura can pull what she did as scum?

[goodmorning]

My vote will move if bert (or GM now) can sell me casso as scum over desperado.

Bert ignored this request to my knowledge. But desperado appears to be on shutdown. Last game I accused him of being scum I think we argued for two pages. Here? He seems to have given up.

Mmk, I'll do a small comparison when I have time.

Curious, you asked Bert but not Muffin. Why?

I wanna bring this post back.

Muffin and I were co-leading the Casso wagon. Bert mainly joined it because I asked him to.

In hindsight, this confirms Gen/Muffin. But does it make Casso more likely to be one of them?

[Prophylaxis]

Let's see.

Prophylaxis

Ms Marangal
goodmorning
Ser Arthur Dayne
pieguyn
KoreanBBQ
Casso the King of Seals
Sakura Hana
Norlkaz

I'm town.

Willing to dismiss Marangal and goodmorning as town - they'd have to be awfully ballsy with the mason claim, and they tested their daychat a while ago.

Prophylaxis

Ms Marangal
goodmorning

Ser Arthur Dayne
pieguyn
KoreanBBQ
Casso the King of Seals
Sakura Hana
Norlkaz

I want a couple of consensus on townreads, so we can PoE this game down into a cluster.

I like SAD, pieguyn, and KoreanBBQ as town. Korean was the counterwagon to SSK on Day 1, and SSK was the first vote on there, plus a Generic vote. He's been making my skin crawl a bit (he seems absent at times, et al) but I think he's unlikely to be scum.

SAD and zMuffinMan were probably unaligned pairs - SAD pointed out the lack of Generic interactions first, and I don't think he'd do that as scum.

Welp, the Generic-Muffin interactions are practically non-existent, Generic basically ignores mufifn the whole game, asks Bert about his read on muffin once, and puts him in his lower tier of suspicions

A bit paranoid, because I'm getting "what if" scenarios in my head which would greatly be assuaged if I got a better understanding of the 'Scum meta (bussing is common, which makes me hesitate a bit on declaring townreads)

pieguyn has done some consistent scumhunting since he replaced in, and zMuffin buddied up to him a bit strongly. *skims zMuffin ISO* - yeah, he's probably town. The Silver Rage makes me a bit worried, but I think he's likely to be town, both behaviorally and by looking at interactions.

Want thoughts on these cluster of players, and want to get a couple of solid townreads - then it becomes a game of PoE. I'm not lynching Korean, SAD, or pieguyn unless something significant happens.

This leaves Sakura Hana, Casso, and Norlkaz.

If this is a 5 man scumteam, the scum are in this pile.

Kind of want to autolynch two of the three and see where we are, but I'm open to refining my reads on those players. I think I'm going to look at votecounts, next.

Sakura and Casso I *want* to be town, but that's probably some wishful thinking. Some stuff in the thread made me townread them slightly? I don't have them in my notes, though, and need to dig them out.

Still happy with a Norlkaz lynch, I think. He's been consistently wrong all game (which rubs me the wrong way, since I have decent respect for Llamarble after seeing him play in Cross-Town) and he has the least interactions with scum - if we're PoEing, he's the one I want to off first.

*skims*

Looking at his recent posts, I don't think I'm a fan of him trying to keep everyone as a possible lynch, and I dislike his "I'd be nice if my early reads were actually correct" as a justification for a vote - removes some accountability there. He's declaring himself obvtown but I just don't see it.

Vote Norlkaz

.

[Prophylaxis]

Everyone except the masons claimed vanilla, right?

Keeping a list in my notes, can't be bothered to double check.

[Norlkaz]

I am not a fan of SH's attitude in general.
I have a hard time seeing somebody play like she has and flip scum though.
Sustained "you'll be sorry when I flip go ahead and lynch me" isn't something I've seen scum do yet and I've played a lot of games.
As to why people are calling Casso town off of that interaction, I have no idea.
Sufficiently satisfied with Sakura, Mara, GM.
Leaves Casso Proph SAD Pie BBQ.

[Norlkaz]

pieguyn has done some consistent scumhunting since he replaced in, and zMuffin buddied up to him a bit strongly. *skims zMuffin ISO* - yeah, he's probably town. The Silver Rage makes me a bit worried, but I think he's likely to be town, both behaviorally and by looking at interactions.

This justification for Pie-Town seems alarmingly cursory research for the way you're talking about quick PoE lynches.

Still happy with a Norlkaz lynch, I think. He's been consistently wrong all game (which rubs me the wrong way, since I have decent respect for Llamarble after seeing him play in Cross-Town) and he has the least interactions with scum - if we're PoEing, he's the one I want to off first.

*skims*

Looking at his recent posts, I don't think I'm a fan of him trying to keep everyone as a possible lynch, and I dislike his "I'd be nice if my early reads were actually correct" as a justification for a vote - removes some accountability there. He's declaring himself obvtown but I just don't see it.

Vote Norlkaz

.

First off, we don't know whether I've actually been that wrong. In fact, basically every remaining scum possibility will make something I've posted look better.
My interactions with scum haven't been significant? FALSE.
On SSK, I didn't have a strong urge to lynch him, then LOUDLY defended him. Then reflected that some of the things I'd pointed out were viable from scum. Then voted him the next day while not 100% confident he'd flip scum but definitely going to lynch; discouraged people not voting him for reasons other than 'because town.'
Off him alone, I ought to be pretty clearly town.
I didn't say much about generic, but I think what I did say was completely reasonable. His posting was sketchy but showed mad.
On Mufin: I should revisit muffin -> Talah mostly works as scum except this post -> ok fully satisfied talah scum -> Muffin scummy -> satisfied muffin's Iso works from scum, vote muffin in way that may cause lynch -> new morning thoughts vote SAD.
All in all, I think my progressions make it pretty darn obvious I am actually trying to figure out these players' alignments. And I got muffin right, when I did read him, so that hurts 'norlkaz wrong about stuff' as well.

In the end, I am not magic and if I haven't put the large chunks of focused time in I can't be as impressive as people expect me to be. I've had other focuses / been daunted by the size of this game but for whatever reason that is fading, and the acceptableness of scumreading me is fading with it.

[Norlkaz]

ok. let's suppose I'm scum and Sakura is town

first off, some backstory. Sakura was the one who introduced me to MS. I came over here bc I saw she came over here and she inspired me. she replaced in my first newbie game (which she ended up beating me as scum in and I'm still butthurt about it) and made me feel the sheer agony of defeat, and we've played several games together here which include a few where we got a bunch of people from my homesite to sign up and raid games all at once. she stuck me with a "can't read Sakura" card ever since said newbie game and she's took full advantage of it making fun of me in subsequent games. we've got many hours BS'ing around in IRC mafia. we have a lot of fun playing together and at some point I wanna hydra with her

meanwhile, I became acquainted with her own story on MS. how she used to be obvtown all the time and then how she slowly started to react worse and worse to pressure. and how she blew up and ragequit several times

now I know Sakura was starting to not enjoy mafia anymore and that she was having a lot of RL problems and getting really stressed out bc of work. and I knew how in FEA she shut down and replaced out of all her games when she got wagoned on D1. I also knew in a game offsite that was ongoing at the time that she was starting to get angry after being lynched as scum bc she was doing the exact same thing as town. it's p obvious she's starting to lose all interest in mafia and not wanna deal with it anymore, especailly with her current RL situation

so suppose I have the chance to deadline lynch her D1 of this game. I know all the stuff that's going on with her RL and how she's not enjoying this game anymore. and so if I deadline lynch her I know exactly what will happen. all of a sudden someone who's a good friend of mine and who I love playing with, the person who brought me here in the first place, isn't here anymore and has lost all motivation to play mafia. and idk how long it'd be until I get to play with her again if ever

there is no way in hell I would take that opportunity. I'd go for someone else and move on

and I think Nacho's relationship with Sakura is very similar to mine. so I don't think Nacho would do something like that just for the sake of getting a mislynch when there are so many other people he could pick

but maybe that's just me

that's the best I can explain it. if you don't get it at this point, oh fucking well

Did I mention I don't like the amount of "I have a story to tell look at all this content!" in the above yet?
Anyway, now that I actually read the Casso-Sakura-dual-ISO:

Where I stand on Sakura now:

1) In early game, Sakura didn't really provide much content except for an interaction with Pieguy that felt like a par for the course type of deal. She also made a comment to the effect of "I'm surprised more people aren't voting me for lurking", which is weird considering some things several players in this game should understand. She also dismissed Cabd pretty quickly, and not because they were doing anything but because everyone else called them obvtown.

2) First interaction with our slot, Sakura asked why you were voting KoreanBBQ, you explained, and then she was like "oh, obvtown!" and started sheeping us. I think but am not confident that this coincides with Open 534 (the game that was so horrible Sakura said she wouldn't sheep me ever again), but at the time, it felt like an easy reason to townread us and wasn't really consistent with her "eh, Nachos doing good enough, I'll give him a sheep for now".

3) I found the static vote on SC was weird for someone who had no scumread and instead some townreads and a bunch of nulls. I didn't like her calling me scum for easy townreads, because those are kind of my thing, and I don't like how she backed off ago quickly after Mara posted her town case. Expecting me to be harsher on the lurkers is also emoticon worthy,

4) Agreeing with the town lurk theory that BRO originally presented seems disingenuous because that sort of lurk theory is a BRO original, I haven't seen it anywhere else, and yet Sakura looks at that reasoning and calls it her own? Not likely.

Then there's a bunch of town looking tone bits and now the genuine frustration bit.
I think Sakura has a good chance to be scum; better than SC and F-16 even with the town sounding bits.
And yet, I don't want to mislynch her if she's as frustrated with the game state as she is; I don't want me spearheading a deadline lynch on her to be the reason she stops playing forever, and I'd like to believe that Sakura wouldn't make me feel as shitty as I do right now if she were scum who just got pegged to shit

This is the post I dropped off in the QT before I went to bed last night.

This is pretty apologetic and is not unreasonable from a scum who wants Sakura not to be upset but is going to play to his wincon.
Pieguy's own take on the Sakura wagon was to disappear entirely as it neared its peak, which is plenty sketchy as well.

[Norlkaz]

A few more reasons I'm town: (from the book of 'towntells for me that I'm aware of but haven't managed to fake'):
Being disappointed in myself while defending my performance to others.
Not caring if I antagonize everyone.
Stating I'm obvtown and cannot be lynched with complete confidence. I can say I'm going to be, as scum, but it never manifests whereas here it is.
Taking any actions at all leading to lynches on scum (I think there is essentially no point to bussing, but I sure did vote Muffin in a way that absolutely could've been the reason he got lynched instead of SAD).
At the end of yesterday, I was pretty convinced Titus would flip town and my reads would turn out to have been good and life would be nice with happies. Good luck to future self faking behavior like that >_>

My towntells will increase rapidly and before long shall form such a massive and imposing bulwark that I won't be surprised at all if I get NKed tonight instead of le masoons.