Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[TierShift]

Tracking cx is a fucking scumclaim. Cx basically claimed VT when he was willing to selfhammer. If cx is scum there's no way scum would let them do the NK, seeing pasch has suspicions of him. There is no way a tracker would track a scummy player who claimed vt.

pasch did not track cx!

VOTE: pasch

Also notice the happy little appeal in his latest post so cuuute

[Dry-fit]

The fact no one was poisoned pretty much confirms Pasch is a tracker. Whether he's scum or town is another question. But cx is by no means confirmed town.

[TierShift]

Not saying that cx is conftown. At all.

Pasch knew he was the one to get poisoned if anyone.

[Espeonage]

Sorry guys site was down for me the past 24 hours or so. I'm off to work now but I'll get back to updating vc when I finish.

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Vote Count

Bulbazak:

Maxous, TierShift

Maxous:

Dry-fit

Tiershift:

Bulbazak, Paschendale, Aj The Epic, Whiskers (L-2)

Paschendale:

Cheery Dog, Kenobi

Not Voting: cxinlee

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Maxous]

does the scum team know something about pasch that we don't?

[Bulbazak]

does the scum team know something about pasch that we don't?

Like what? What caused you to bring up this question?

[Maxous]

there's 2 separate players insisting he is not a tracker for weird reasons.

[TierShift]

Why the crap would pasch track cx? Hmm?

If even pasch has no idea it's pretty obvious that he's lying.

[Whiskers]

Tracking cx is a fucking scumclaim. Cx basically claimed VT when he was willing to selfhammer. If cx is scum there's no way scum would let them do the NK, seeing pasch has suspicions of him.

There is no way a tracker would track a scummy player who claimed vt.

pasch did not track cx!

VOTE: pasch

Also notice the happy little appeal in his latest post so cuuute

...what?

I was following you there, for a while. Cx did make a big scummy appeal to emotion and threatened to selfhammer (though, he didn't actually do it). If Cx were scum, you're right, it would be stupid for scum to let him make the kill, because he'd have all the attention on himself (although, maybe not, since that AtE seemed to get him off the hook for a lynch, eh?).
...why would a tracker not track that player? He doesn't have to catch the kill, you know. Any motion is important.

Why the crap would pasch track cx? Hmm?

If even pasch has no idea it's pretty obvious that he's lying.

Well doc, in the last post of yours I quoted, you said that Pasch suspected Cx.
Seems like a great, grand reason to track him.

[TierShift]

You all make me feel like I'm overthinking this...

But why would a tracker track a useless VT if town instead of something confirmable later on? Why didn't pasch, for instance, track me or whoever else he was suspecting? I just can't see it.

[Whiskers]

...why would a tracker not track that player? He doesn't have to catch the kill, you know. Any motion is important.

And besides, Cx had just claimed VT, right? So-- and this is a little WIFOM here-- that's the best time for Cx to do anything... because, following your own logic, nobody would investigate him.

Better still: SINCE Cx had claimed vanilla, tracking him to any target would mean that Cx is a big fat liar, and "lynch all liars", so.

[preedit]
...why would he track you? You haven't claimed, iirc, so you're probably VT: not trying any gambits, not claiming anything and getting pressure off yourself...

[TierShift]

Hmm, I suppose you're right. Still, I find it doubtful that pasch chooses targets whose results are very easy to replicate, when there's quite a few people doubting his claim now. Perhaps he can conftracker himself N3?

[TierShift]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bulba

Whiskers, I want to hear what you think of bulba's sudden switch.

[Bulbazak]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bulba

Whiskers, I want to hear what you think of bulba's sudden switch.

So you try to attack a town PR, fail, and then come back to me for catching you posturing an attack based on the Emp wagon?

[Paschendale]

Ask me again after the game is over, Tiershift. Then I'll explain my tracking targets to you.

In the meantime, I agree with Bulba. I'd like to hear more about Whiskers' role.

I'd also like to hear some conclusions from Dry-Fit and Max. DF: Why are you so dead set on voting Max? Who else might you vote for and why? Max: What do you have to say in your defense? Give more on why you're voting Bulba? Do you think Tier is scum? If so, what do you think of his current vote on Bulba?

[TierShift]

Okay pasch. You do need to confirm yourself night 3, really.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bulba

Whiskers, I want to hear what you think of bulba's sudden switch.

So you try to attack a town PR, fail, and then come back to me for catching you posturing an attack based on the Emp wagon?

Is it you, scum bulba?

[Cheery Dog]

No, I just don't care. You're scum. I don't need to satisfy you in any way.

Whiskers, Cheery, Bulba, let's sort this out and lynch us a scum.

I'm already voting you

The fact no one was poisoned pretty much confirms Pasch is a tracker. Whether he's scum or town is another question. But cx is by no means confirmed town.

The issue is why RBD was going on about being a confirmable role, when it's well known that he doesn't like town killing roles. (well okay I've been reminded by MD of this fact) It therefore doesn't mean anything. He could also have had a teammate roleblock, but I'd rather not go that far away from occam's razor.

there's 2 separate players insisting he is not a tracker for weird reasons.

It's still possible he is a tracker, but he's certainly not one that's aligned with town.

Hmm, I suppose you're right. Still, I find it doubtful that pasch chooses targets whose results are very easy to replicate, when there's quite a few people doubting his claim now. Perhaps he can conftracker himself N3?

How do you suppose he can conftracker himself? Tracker isn't a confirmable role except to each person individually, what do you plan on doing, no lynching and hoping he continues to perform no kill gambits?

[TierShift]

I think he can conf himself by tracking someone who went somewhere? He's then confirmed to that person and we lynch that person before pasch in all circumstances if that person confirms pasch to be a tracker.

Unless someone is going as far as to suggest a scum tracker *cough*occam's razor lol*cough*

[Whiskers]

*cough*occam's razor lol*cough*

Do you even know what that means, TS, or are you just repeating what you saw someone else say?

[TierShift]

It's taking the theory that needs the least assumptions. A scum tracker is quite a huge assumption, while a town tracker is not.

[Bulbazak]

A scum tracker is quite a huge assumption, while a town tracker is not.

Why's that?

[Maxous]

I should be voting cheery.

unvote, vote: Cheery Dog

he's suggesting that Pasch is not a tracker because it is well known(apparently) that RBD wouldn't shoot with a town vig role - even though RBD specifically said he would be confirm-able on D2 - ergo Pasch is lying about the result. (along with lying about Cxinlee because Cx basically claimed vanilla )
or else Pasch is a scum tracker for reasons. Those reasons being a 'no kill gambit' and keeping his mislynch options open by attacking Tiershift over defending newbies

[Dry-fit]

@Pasch: Maxous is the person I'm most sure is scum. Him suspecting Emp for "attacking everyone who attacked him" does not read like town reasoning. Nor does anything else he's done this game in particular. Tier's play late last day read as more townie for me, though I'm far from 100% on him being town. I guess I could lynch Kenobi today, but it really should be Maxous.

[Paschendale]

I think he can conf himself by tracking someone who went somewhere? He's then confirmed to that person and we lynch that person before pasch in all circumstances if that person confirms pasch to be a tracker.

Unless someone is going as far as to suggest a scum tracker *cough*occam's razor lol*cough*

There's a decent chance that anyone I see using an ability is actually town, rather than scum making a kill or using an ability. Tier right here is trying to use me as a pro-scum role cop to get rid of town PRs. Obviously, if I track someone and the person they visit is dead the next morning, that's a decent guilty result. But Tier isn't making any differentiation. He's just hoping I'll out a doc or something like that.

@Dry-Fit: How does Max's above post fit in with your theory?

[Whiskers]

@Pasch: Maxous is the person I'm most sure is scum. Him suspecting Emp for "attacking everyone who attacked him" does not read like town reasoning.

:\

See, DF, the problem with this post is that that's actually really good reasoning. "Attacking everyone who attacked him" is something that a shitty player would do. Since Empking has sort of a reputation as not-being a shitty player, it's very strange-- and so, scummy-- that he would play so shittily. Why Empking did so is still a fucking incredible mystery, and my guess is that the masons are secretly evil and Empking actually

was

scum (and so are you), because "Reverse Mafia".

Actually, no, that's not my guess.

But seriously, that was a great reason to suspect Emp. I can't speak for the rest of Maxous's play-- I can't remember a single god damned thing he's done this game, for instance-- but if you're going to pick out one thing to attack him for, it should probably not be that, because that's fucking garbage, mate.

There's a decent chance that anyone I see using an ability is actually town, rather than scum making a kill or using an ability. Tier right here is trying to use me as a pro-scum role cop to get rid of town PRs. Obviously, if I track someone and the person they visit is dead the next morning, that's a decent guilty result. But Tier isn't making any differentiation. He's just hoping I'll out a doc or something like that.

Maybe.

I've actually come all the way around to suspecting that maybe Tiershift is just sort of a crap player-- by which I mean, he's a townie, a vanilla townie. He's trying really fucking hard for things to make sense, and they just don't, because he doesn't have all of the information; the information of the informed minority. So he's grasping at straws, and he's doing it very obviously and clumsily, jumping from one theory to the next, closest theory that makes sense. And yes, it all looks very bad and scummy and clumsy and bad. But that's because he's a shitty player-- by which I mean a vanilla townie-- and we really can't hold it against him. Can we?

Now, I can't tell y'all who I think you

should

lynch. Any of the players I can actually name are players I'd be kind of against lynching-- maybe not Cheery Dog. Can't think of a good reason she should be town. But then, I don't have any reason to think she's scum, either, so.