Mini 1536 - Silph Co. Reverse Mafia (Game Over)

[Maxous]

I still don't believe it's a confirmable role. I'm aware that it would invovle a blind guess normally, but we have to remember that whiskers

isn't town

.

lol?
so Pasch can track Whiskers and prove he is a tracker role at least, but we can't trust Whiskers verifying it because Whiskers claimed a third party role.

I find the certainty and naivity with which max defends me disconcerting.

Max, why aren't you voting bulba anymore?

The fact that he's one of the people who consistently finds you town is a bother, I agree.

However, you're in no position to disagree with him defending you, as he's basically the only player I consider for-sure town who's been consistently backing you

. I still haven't seen anything worth being suspicious of from Max.

interesting choice of words.

I could've said "Only person backing you, period" but I felt like specifying my stance on you.

it's your idea that Tiershift should be grateful to me and eating out of my hand because I'm the guy defending him. Scum do defend mislynchable town sometimes.
He should be having a look at my reasons why etc.
saying "you're not in a position to disagree with him defending you" is a lame attack and is

more likely to come from town

on the other hand.. his whole "I've been obv town-posting, people are just shitty tunnelling me" when in his previous post he literally called me out for NAIVELY DEFENDING HIM WITH A WEIRD AMOUNT OF CERTAINTY is a different kettle of fish.

[TierShift]

Tiershift is in the lead

Can't touch this!

it's your idea that Tiershift should be grateful to me and eating out of my hand because I'm the guy defending him. Scum do defend mislynchable town sometimes.
He should be having a look at my reasons why etc.
saying "you're not in a position to disagree with him defending you" is a lame attack and is

more likely to come from town

on the other hand.. his whole "I've been obv town-posting, people are just shitty tunnelling me" when in his previous post he literally called me out for NAIVELY DEFENDING HIM WITH A WEIRD AMOUNT OF CERTAINTY is a different kettle of fish.

I was kidding about that obvtown part, if that wasn't obvious. I do agree with the rest of the post, AJ is hardly looking for intentions behind behaviour. I don't see how that makes him town, though.

[Paschendale]

I hate rule 6a.

Tell me whether you meeting your win con ends the game in your next post, Whiskers, or you won't live through this day.

[Paschendale]

I hate rule 6a.

Tell me whether you meeting your win con ends the game in your next post, Whiskers, or you won't live through this day.

This post was entirely too vague. I meant that vote. The only reason I'm not fixing it is to give you one last chance. If you meeting whatever your win con is prevents me from winning, I want to know right now. Otherwise, there's a lot of us and only one of you and we'll kill you.

[Whiskers]

Ok, two things:
1: No, that would be stupid, and I wouldn't have claimed in the first place. I'd be fearfully guarding the information.
2: If I did have a wincondition that prevented you from winning, and for some reason was in the position I am now, why would I not outright lie to you?

[Paschendale]

And I should trust you and not lynch you... why? The only benefit to you claiming at all is to cause confusion. You would lie, but you didn't. You avoiding saying anything. So now there's even less reason to trust you.

Unvote
Vote: Whiskers

Give me a reason. Or you can just die.

[Whiskers]

I didn't claim not to lie.

What I'm asking is, what's the use in you asking that question? When you give me a choice like, "Answer this way, or be lynched!!" what incentive do I have to answer the way you want me to, lie or no?

And, I'll say again: it would be stupid for me to claim, when it would reveal me to be anti-town. Instead, you can use your own fucking brain, and put a little faith in the concept that I'm not an absolutely moronic fucktard and probably didn't claim just because I want extra hard to be lynched.

Or, you should consider that, if I want extra hard to be lynched, I'm probably playing as my favourite role...

[Cheery Dog]

I still don't believe it's a confirmable role. I'm aware that it would invovle a blind guess normally, but we have to remember that whiskers

isn't town

.

lol?
so Pasch can track Whiskers and prove he is a tracker role at least, but we can't trust Whiskers verifying it because Whiskers claimed a third party role.

Still doesn't stop Pasch being scum.

But the point is since we can't trust whiskers, there's pasch can outright lie a result and we won't know any better. He did just commit a no kill gambit, so who knows anything.

[Whiskers]

I still don't believe it's a confirmable role. I'm aware that it would invovle a blind guess normally, but we have to remember that whiskers

isn't town

.

lol?
so Pasch can track Whiskers and prove he is a tracker role at least, but we can't trust Whiskers verifying it because Whiskers claimed a third party role.

Still doesn't stop Pasch being scum.

But the point is since we can't trust whiskers, there's pasch can outright lie a result and we won't know any better. He did just commit a no kill gambit, so who knows anything.

Then have him track someone else.
Or, you know, lynch him.

[TierShift]

Whiskers, I just wanna know something: what drove you to claimng?

[Whiskers]

I'm a bad liar, and keeping info like this under wraps is very stressful to me. Also, I'm well aware that the more information town has, the more they can use it to combat scum. Informing the uninformed majority.

[TierShift]

And what kind of reason is that not to tell us more about your role?

[Maxous]

But the point is since we can't trust whiskers, there's pasch can outright lie a result and we won't know any better. He did just commit a no kill gambit, so who knows anything.

Pasch can't lie because he **risks confirming himself as scum to whiskers**
Just like he would of risked being caught out badly if he lied about RBD + Cxinlee tracks. Needless risks with not a great payoff.
Yes scum trackers exist but you keep arguing he is

lying about being a tracker

Even if Whiskers is third party =/= helping the mafia.
That is, if Whiskers is even a third party role and not full of bs - which he likely is.
You were not like this before

I'll just outright ask...do you have role information that Pasch isn't a tracker? If so,

just say it

[Aj The Epic]

And I should trust you and not lynch you... why? The only benefit to you claiming at all is to cause confusion. You would lie, but you didn't. You avoiding saying anything. So now there's even less reason to trust you.

Unvote
Vote: Whiskers

Give me a reason. Or you can just die.

You asking those questions basically came out to "I have a certain response that will not get you killed and everything else you say will get you killed". Realistically, Whisker's COULD'VE just lied all the way out of this, or not even hinted at it because there was no reason to suspect. The motive for stating that he was third party when he did does not have anything other than honest intent... He was under no pressure to do so and I feel that even here, he could've easily lied (and still could've done so) but the motive and important context of this claim has already passed.

[Paschendale]

Whiskers could have been cooperative. Whiskers could have not mentioned anything. The only result of this claim was to cause confusion. He's not giving us any useful information to hunt scum. He's doing nothing but turning himself into a liability. This is no different than someone who refuses to do anything but self-vote. It only hurts. It doesn't help. Why do you trust him?

[Dry-fit]

I'm really wanting to vote Whiskers here. Sadly Maxous isn't going to happen, so I need to look or my next move.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers could have been cooperative. Whiskers could have not mentioned anything. The only result of this claim was to cause confusion. He's not giving us any useful information to hunt scum. He's doing nothing but turning himself into a liability. This is no different than someone who refuses to do anything but self-vote. It only hurts. It doesn't help. Why do you trust him?

Yeah, yeah, whatever.

Unvote
Vote: Paschendale

With regards to

me

, You've wasted a bunch of time rolefishing on me, tried to lead me to say certain things ("does your wincondition clash with my wincondition?") promising not to vote me if I did-- actually, more like threatening to vote me if I didn't say them-- and even when I did say them, you still vote me.
You're failing to see the protown motivation of giving the town

any

information that they didn't have before, ignoring the fact that I was under

no

pressure to claim, and too bull-headed to realize that if I claimed, it wouldn't have been something that would get me immediately lynched.

That's all assuming you're not straight-up scum.

Since I

claimed

to you, and you know I am not one, would you care to look for

mafia

players?

I would think you'd trust my answer, ("does your wincon end the game, does it prevent me from winning??") since you

asked

in the first place. Clearly though, you don't, since you're voting me now. Why even ask, then?

Better: Why lynch a third-party who intends to aid town, when

that is the thing that the mafia fear the very most?

Truthfully, that's one of the big three things that read scum to me, Pasch. That you're afraid of a town-aligned Indep, That you're rolefishing heavily and focusing exclusively on my off-the-cuff claim, That you're dancing around voting me and pretending like you're trying to find an excuse to

not

vote me, when you're just waiting to vote me all this time.

Actually I'm looking through your ISO and the bit about you tunnelling me isn't really true, so I guess that's just two things that read scum.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers could have been cooperative.

Can you be more specific? You're acting as though this isn't the case.

[TierShift]

I still have no idea why anyone would vote whiskers, who voluntarily shared role info with us. Does anyone truly believe an anti-town 3rd party would just claim 3rd party? Really?
I think she actually is third party by now, seeing how long she keeps this up.

Dry, why don't you come over for a bulba vote? I'm actually down to vote max as well, but it seems like there is less support for a max lynch.

[Cheery Dog]

But the point is since we can't trust whiskers, there's pasch can outright lie a result and we won't know any better. He did just commit a no kill gambit, so who knows anything.

Pasch can't lie because he **risks confirming himself as scum to whiskers**
Just like he would of risked being caught out badly if he lied about RBD + Cxinlee tracks. Needless risks with not a great payoff.
Yes scum trackers exist but you keep arguing he is

lying about being a tracker

Even if Whiskers is third party =/= helping the mafia.
That is, if Whiskers is even a third party role and not full of bs - which he likely is.
You were not like this before

I'll just outright ask...do you have role information that Pasch isn't a tracker? If so,

just say it

Just because someone is claiming to be playing to aid the town doesn't mean they actually are - aka why we don't get scum claims.
He'd probably be dead if RBD had used poison. (but I stand by RBD not being one to use town killing roles, it's as simple as knowing who his main (or possible mane) is).

Are you suggesting I'm not capable of being confident in my scum reads because I wasn't nearly a year ago?

Don't you think I would have already announced role related reasons if I had them? I'm also been stating that he could still be a tracker, but he is also still scum.

[Cheery Dog]

I still have no idea why anyone would vote whiskers, who voluntarily shared role info with us. Does anyone truly believe an anti-town 3rd party would just claim 3rd party? Really?
I think she actually is third party by now, seeing how long she keeps this up.

Dry, why don't you come over for a bulba vote? I'm actually down to vote max as well, but it seems like there is less support for a max lynch.

Tier's going for any lynch again?

Maybe I do somehow have him and pasch mixed up with alignments.

[Maxous]

frakin, sigh

unvote, vote: Bulbazak

[Bulbazak]

Does anyone truly believe an anti-town 3rd party would just claim 3rd party? Really?

Not likely. But then again, Whiskers claimed at a time that we were starting to realize that there might be a 3rd party in the game via the mason team losing a BP. The claim might have been preemptive damage control. I actually have a theory regarding the role, but I need to do some checking first.

frakin, sigh

unvote, vote: Bulbazak

You seemed to be thinking Tier-scum awhile ago. Why the sudden reverse, and why so downhearted about it, as if we are twisting your arm? Is it because Tier is saying he'd be willing to lynch you?

[Paschendale]

Max, Bulb has been extremely town today. You're barking up the wrong tree.

If town thinks that Whiskers is more of an asset than a liability (a position I do not agree with), then let's just lynch TierShift today.

[Bulbazak]

Okay, I think that the random question the mod asked us to confirm was not random. I think we all got whatever pokémon we chose. I also have a feeling that Whiskers is looking for a specific one, probably to take it in some capacity. So far, her responses seem to indicate being able to take it via some sort of night action, maybe even just piggy backing off of other's night kills. That is assuming she doesn't have night kills of her own. Heck, maybe she only had one and she wasted it n1. If that's the case, and she can only get the pokémon she's looking for via that player being NK'd, I don't see how she is helpful to the town. She's certainly not harmful, but she would rely more on the scum team's choices than the town's. And if she's relying on NKs to get the pokémon she wants, I doubt that scum is holding it. Maybe I'm totally off base here, but that's the best I could come up with given all that we know and have been told.