NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Zdenek]

Here is their interaction. I'll spoiler it.

Spoiler:

Meta, if I were scum here, I would have posted a lot more or at least thrown some nice town looking content out,

I find it interesting you think I would not consider my meta in relation to others.

This is true. ABR should not be using meta to push Slandaar's wagon. That was pretty bad of him.

Even if I'm bad at explaining my reads, they're usually right on the money. Slandaar isn't that great a player that he will adapt his meta to every single player in the game as scum, although that would be hilarious if someone actually believed him on that. In actuality, Slandaar is the coward type who will crumble under pressure as scum. I'm surprised he hasn't replaced out yet, but he might as well have, with the content he's been putting out. This isn't a difficult decision, lynch Slandaar.

Unvote, vote Slandaar

You have never seen me under pressure as scum.

ABR is now guaranteed scum.

I know you Slandaar, I know how weak and pathetic you are. Go run away.

Where have you seen me under pressure as scum Albert?

It seems like you don't remember me. Let me refresh your memory.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31485

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34696

I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.

I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.

Because you made yourself a non-entity. If you had posted more content, you would have been easily caught. You replaced out before.

I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.

Because you made yourself a non-entity. If you had posted more content, you would have been easily caught. You replaced out before.

OK cool story.

So, where is the pressure that you claim exists?

I'm right here Slandaar, going to watch you and your scum team burn.

I like how you avoided the question.

Didn't get away with it though.

I like how you avoided the question.

Didn't get away with it though.

You didn't ask a question.

Sure I did.

The one you ignored.

Sure I did.

The one you ignored.

Except I ignored nothing.

I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.

Because you made yourself a non-entity. If you had posted more content, you would have been easily caught. You replaced out before.

OK cool story.

So, where is the pressure that you claim exists?

I assume you responded to this somewhere then?

Quotes.

...

I responded to your question but my post got caught in the simulposting. If you didn't spam the thread with one-liners, you might have seen it. Too bad for you.

Unvote Slandaar, vote emeraldemon

I'll be coming after you tomorrow.

...

I responded to your question but my post got caught in the simulposting. If you didn't spam the thread with one-liners, you might have seen it. Too bad for you.

When you find out your post didn't go through that is your cue to re post it.

The act is amusing though.

It's unpleasant when you go through all the trouble of quoting and copying and pasting, push submit and your post doesn't come through because someone ninja'd you and you thought it went through and you lost the entire post you wrote.

Cliff notes of my missing post:

You accused Brian of "obvious scum" and were voting for Goodfather. You called me "guaranteed scum" and voted for Brian. Why do you think there has to be a vote for you to be caught? If you had posted more content on either of the games I linked, you would have been run up in a second. You chose to barely show up and eventually replace out, so unless someone wants to be accused of lurker policy lynching, they were forced to ignore you. That doesn't make your situation any less precarious.

So, what pressure are you talking about?

I have probably 15 completed scum games and 2 I replaced out of. Why are you selectively using the 2? (I know the answer). What has me replacing out got to do with anything? I had no pressure in those games; none more than normal.

And both were due to disagreements with the modding, which makes it impossible to continue to play in, so, Albert, do you have a point?

[Zdenek]

All of his opinions are geared towards justifying his antitown actions, so of course they are consistent.

I guess I just don't think that's what's going on.

[Aegor]

I think I may be confusing ABR and Brian Skies. Regardless, ISO'd ABR and found nothing spectacularly awful regarding Slandaar. I would still be happy to lynch ABR.

Zde, wake up. How many players were talking about how much time we had four days ago? What has happened since then? Absolutely nothing. We are now a little over two days from deadline. Are we even going to lynch someone today? How many players have been prodded this game day? How many are in a prod state right now? Do we even know whether they will post? Will ever subsequent game day be like this? Do you want five or six players replacing out every game day?

Get a grip. The people that will never produce viable reads should be annihilated before it is too late to rid ourselves of them safely. Plus, Huntress' job is easier. You may be fine dragging this game out until the end of eternity, but I am not. And at least some of the lurkers have a good chance of flipping scum.

Lynch any of them. Do not care. ABR, Matias, kabooooooooooooom. Can we please just do something instead of fabricating completely bullshit assertions of defense?

VOTE: ABR

If a No Lynch occurs today I am vote parking on myself and prod dodging until I die.

[Rainbowdash]

Zdenek please.

Slandaar is a cancer in every game he is in and should always be policy lynched. If I was to make a list of three players the site would be a better place if they never found it he would be on it. There is nothing wrong with the interaction between him and ABR.

Also the links are good

Game 1 players do something Slandaar doesn't agree with and Slandaar somehow thought compromised things, he throws a hissy fit as scum and quits
Game 2 the Slandaar slot although not getting voted D1 wasn't in a "good" spot. ABR has just quickhammered his partner, and the slot was under D2 suspicion due to the flip.

Both of those games had ABR town, Slandaar scum, and Slandaar running always when things got somewhat bad for him. In the first case the mod allowing something he thought was going to be bad for him, in the latter his partner being quicklynched leaving him in a tight spot. You do not have to be getting votes to be in a bad spot as scum. Absolutely nothing wrong with that from ABR unless they have played a couple of dozen games together with ABR town and Slandaar scum. Two of two is good enough to try and put a baseline meta out. It is more good information as to why this guy should always be aggressively policy lynched though.

Kab is the lynch.

Aegor, get back on kab. The cases on him and ABR are somewhat similar, but ABR actually might be replaced by a half decent player and part of what is being pushed is outright false while kab is legitimately scummy. I agree that we need a lynch, but at this point its good lynch vs okay lynch. There is absolutely no reason to be on ABR instead of kab. That wagon is lazy and as I just showed, apparently half based on something outright false that ABR isn't around to defend.

Kab-scum go for Thor/Zdnek tomorrow. ABR probably flipping town because the lazy wagon which zdnek says applies to him and kab seems to only ever show up on ABR.

[Zdenek]

Kab-scum go for Thor/Zdnek tomorrow.

I'm very obviously town. Thor is probably town because of Brian Skyes meta.
So Kab-scum means you're bussing and trying to line up lynches.

[Rainbowdash]

Kab-scum go for Thor/Zdnek tomorrow.

I'm very obviously town. Thor is probably town because of Brian Skyes meta.
So Kab-scum means you're bussing and trying to line up lynches.

BS was probably my strongest scum read in the entire game. Thor has brought it from best choice to more of an outside scum pick, but kab being scum would put him right back up there.

Nice snipe though and trying to lay bussing groundwork.

How about you answer the parts where I pointed out that both of those games where Slandaar leaving when things got sorta bad for him? I mean, that is your case, and if you actually bother to look at either of those games ABR was far more right than wrong about the meta.

[Zdenek]

Well, I was taking for granted that Slaandar was telling the truth about replacing out because of conflicts with the mod and not receiving a vote in either game.

[Zdenek]

Why are you suspicious of Brian Skyes?

[Rainbowdash]

Well, I was taking for granted that Slaandar was telling the truth about replacing out because of conflicts with the mod and not receiving a vote in either game.

Basically ABR and another were trying to get the mod to force replace a partner of Slandaar that was behaving like kab. Slandaar melted down because he thought the mod actions basically confirmed them as scum because it would be playing to their win condition or something like that to be acting thusly and ragequit postgame saying he thought ABR should have been modkilled.

Just because you don't have a vote doesn't mean your position is always good as scum. I have had a few games where even though no scum was under pressure I felt very uncomfortable with the game given setup stuff, who secondary suspects were, too many town being called town, etc. Slandaar actually trying to brush it off like that was pretty bad, and you should know better than not only to trust him to tell the truth regardless of alignment but him actually be right about something. Funniest part is he should have been lynched because he was trying to lie about what happened in the games, and he was actually town.

He didn't have votes, but any player could have told you his position was not all that great in either game. And if you look at it, game one he was vigged N2 and game two he was lynched D4 (town never mislynched, probably lynched D3 otherwise)

Those are both exactly what ABR was calling him scum for. Just because Slandaar refused to admit it doesn't mean ABR was wrong. Go look at the games. Your entire case against ABR falls apart, or at least everything that doesn't apply to at least a few others.

Why are you suspicious of Brian Skyes?

Lots of small things but at one point he accused somepony of faking townslips. Which is pure ponyfeathers. Scum will almost never fake a townslip. Scum will occasionally not be paying attention and wander smack into a townslip, but townslips are called that because they are almost always town. Trying to say "hey wait no he did something that is far more likely town but is faking it because" is really bad. Overall the slot left a very bad taste in my mouth but that one line would have had me instantly calling for the lynch.

[Zdenek]

Since Brian Skyes is fairly new here, him believing that scum try to fake town-slips doesn't seem far-fetched at all to me.
Also, scum do try to fake town-slips: Amrun did it in Flash Mafia 4, but that vanished in the crash, CooLDog tried to do it is Good vs. Evil mafia (by faking a lack of awareness of the setup). So it certainly happens, it's just not all that common.

Assuming everything was factually true (which I guess is what you think), what do you think of logic behind ABR's vote?

[Rainbowdash]

Since Brian Skyes is fairly new here, him believing that scum try to fake town-slips doesn't seem far-fetched at all to me.
Also, scum do try to fake town-slips: Amrun did it in Flash Mafia 4, but that vanished in the crash, CooLDog tried to do it is Good vs. Evil mafia (by faking a lack of awareness of the setup). So it certainly happens, it's just not all that common.

I thought BS was closer to two years already, guess not.

Anyway, I see it happen for scum just by pure luck far more often than they actually do it intentionally. Trying to undercut that would be like saying "oh they led the lynch on scum, they are obviously bussing", its just not a common first reaction but instead the reaction of trying to force a case or prevent town reads from forming. Both are quite a bit more often things scum will do.

Assuming everything was factually true (which I guess is what you think), what do you think of logic behind ABR's vote?

Its good enough. As I said I would have just policy lynched Slandaar out the gate so anypony voting him gains some credit in my book even if it was just dumb luck they were on the wagon because it means they recognized game is better without him. And again ABR isn't the worst lynch, but the reasons behind it seem off.

Again. After looking at what actually happened do you still think ABR was misrepresenting Slandaar?

[Zdenek]

Reads on Slaandar in each of the linked games prior to replacing out:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31485
Mastin was calling Slaandar town.
bald eagle thought Slandaar was fluff posting early in the game, Mastin defended Slandaar from this accusation.
Matias wanted more info, and questioned Mastin's town read.
Brian Skyes was null, then to slight scum lean.
Garmr was null on Slandaar, and defended him.
Maenara thought "Slandaar is hostile, which makes one seem pro-town, but is really sorta useless when you direct it at the wrong people."

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34696
Lupo - Slaandar is looking bad at this point (more active in other games). Was okay with him later.
TvK - thought that Slandaar needed to do something
smargret - questioned a town read of Slandaar.
ABR voted Slandaar for no reason, later neutral on Slandaar
KidA - thought Slandaar was an iffy town read.
toolenduso - Slandaar is hard to read, but is playing to his town meta.
Om - leaning town on Slandaar
_____________

Meta, if I were scum here, I would have posted a lot more or at least thrown some nice town looking content out,

I find it interesting you think I would not consider my meta in relation to others.

This is true. ABR should not be using meta to push Slandaar's wagon. That was pretty bad of him.

Even if I'm bad at explaining my reads, they're usually right on the money. Slandaar isn't that great a player that he will adapt his meta to every single player in the game as scum, although that would be hilarious if someone actually believed him on that. In actuality, Slandaar is the coward type who will crumble under pressure as scum. I'm surprised he hasn't replaced out yet, but he might as well have, with the content he's been putting out. This isn't a difficult decision, lynch Slandaar.

Unvote, vote Slandaar

Regardless of whether Slandaar is a great player, there's really no evidence in either of those games that he'll crumble under pressure. He may have not been in a great position in either game, but he wasn't ever really under pressure. Funnily, by ABR's reasoning since Slandaar didn't replace out that should make him more likely to be town, as he didn't crumble under pressure.

I accumulated approximately 0 votes in those games,

It appears you are the one who misremembers.

Because you made yourself a non-entity. If you had posted more content, you would have been easily caught. You replaced out before.

There's no evidence from either of those games that ABR would have caught Slandaar.

[Zdenek]

In this game ABR certainly had no reason to think that scum was in a bad position either.

[Rainbowdash]

Reads on Slaandar in each of the linked games prior to replacing out:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31485
Mastin was calling Slaandar town.
bald eagle thought Slandaar was fluff posting early in the game, Mastin defended Slandaar from this accusation.
Matias wanted more info, and questioned Mastin's town read.
Brian Skyes was null, then to slight scum lean.
Garmr was null on Slandaar, and defended him.
Maenara thought "Slandaar is hostile, which makes one seem pro-town, but is really sorta useless when you direct it at the wrong people."

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34696
Lupo - Slaandar is looking bad at this point (more active in other games). Was okay with him later.
TvK - thought that Slandaar needed to do something
smargret - questioned a town read of Slandaar.
ABR voted Slandaar for no reason, later neutral on Slandaar
KidA - thought Slandaar was an iffy town read.
toolenduso - Slandaar is hard to read, but is playing to his town meta.
Om - leaning town on Slandaar

Neither of these things matter, both replace outs were not due to reads of players on him but game state shifts

In game 1 Slandaar was rage quitting due to mod stuff D1 (he was vigged N2) he quit as soon as he thought he was in a bad spot due to the mod
In game 2 his partner got lynched D1 and he replaced out immediately (his slot was second lynch down the road)

Also you sort of ignored the "but he might as well have" part of ABRs post. I see the push more of "Slandaar handles pressure badly" than anything else, which he did when you consider he was using "I am a lurker so an easy lynch" as a counterattack

[Aegor]

VOTE: kab

[Zdenek]

Reads on Slaandar in each of the linked games prior to replacing out:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31485
Mastin was calling Slaandar town.
bald eagle thought Slandaar was fluff posting early in the game, Mastin defended Slandaar from this accusation.
Matias wanted more info, and questioned Mastin's town read.
Brian Skyes was null, then to slight scum lean.
Garmr was null on Slandaar, and defended him.
Maenara thought "Slandaar is hostile, which makes one seem pro-town, but is really sorta useless when you direct it at the wrong people."

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34696
Lupo - Slaandar is looking bad at this point (more active in other games). Was okay with him later.
TvK - thought that Slandaar needed to do something
smargret - questioned a town read of Slandaar.
ABR voted Slandaar for no reason, later neutral on Slandaar
KidA - thought Slandaar was an iffy town read.
toolenduso - Slandaar is hard to read, but is playing to his town meta.
Om - leaning town on Slandaar

Neither of these things matter, both replace outs were not due to reads of players on him but game state shifts

In game 1 Slandaar was rage quitting due to mod stuff D1 (he was vigged N2) he quit as soon as he thought he was in a bad spot due to the mod
In game 2 his partner got lynched D1 and he replaced out immediately (his slot was second lynch down the road)

Also you sort of ignored the "but he might as well have" part of ABRs post. I see the push more of "Slandaar handles pressure badly" than anything else, which he did when you consider he was using "I am a lurker so an easy lynch" as a counterattack

Maybe you could walk me through your take on ABR's push on Slandaar then because I'm not following your take on this at all.

[Aegor]

People not voting ABR or kab should switch to one of them.

[Bulbazak]

There was an attack on Slaandar for reasons that I think weren't all that good.

Compare that to Slandaar's reasoning. Is it any better?

ABR voted him, adding reasons that were false.

Were they? How accurate are you expecting some meta reads when viewed through the lens of memory? Have you ever had a moment in a game where you stated X happened, only to be told that you're wrong, and it ended up being your impression of the game, not what was in black and white?

The reason that it's scummy is that he wanted his vote to look more legitimate than it actually was.

Town sometimes do this as well. Why is it scummy in this instance?

I think I may be confusing ABR and Brian Skies. Regardless, ISO'd ABR and found nothing spectacularly awful regarding Slandaar. I would still be happy to lynch ABR.

Says he finds nothing scummy about ABR. Just finished railing on Kabooom. Then talks about lurkers. Switches vote off of lurker onto person in need of replacement (who could actually be an active poster upon replacing in, i.e. we could get an actual read from them) once momentum starts shifting that way. Further down, switches vote back once momentum is deflated.

Also, scum do try to fake town-slips: Amrun did it in Flash Mafia 4, but that vanished in the crash, CooLDog tried to do it is Good vs. Evil mafia (by faking a lack of awareness of the setup). So it certainly happens, it's just not all that common.

Fuzzybutternut also did it in Jungle Republic. This does happen enough to be a valid concern.

[Aegor]

Says he finds nothing scummy about ABR. Just finished railing on Kabooom. Then talks about lurkers. Switches vote off of lurker onto person in need of replacement (who could actually be an active poster upon replacing in, i.e. we could get an actual read from them) once momentum starts shifting that way. Further down, switches vote back once momentum is deflated.

Every single word of that is true.

[kabooooom]

vote:ABR

[Zdenek]

Bulbazak your questions are ridiculous. Mafia's not a fucking logic contest, so your first question is pointless. As for ABR's case, even if ABR wasn't lying about what was going on in those games, his argument for Slandaar being scum still makes no sense. If you think it does, explain it to me. As for whether it's scummy or not, it's always scummy; there's probably no glorious scummy think that only scum do.

[Zdenek]

ABR probably flipping town because the lazy wagon which zdnek says applies to him and kab seems to only ever show up on ABR.

What does this even mean?

[Zdenek]

I've never once talked about a lazy wagon, so I have no idea what RBD is going on about.

[Sotty7]

Okay i'm here, I'm sorry.

I will be catching up today.

[Bulbazak]

Mafia's not a fucking logic contest