NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[Mister Rogers]

This needs to happen.

Unvote, Vote Gant

Doc is a scum read of mine but Gant, my gosh, somethin' ain't right there Lucy....

[ThAdmiral]

Oh and ThAd is literally voting me for scum-hunting.

But you're not scumhunting, are you? You're just saying so-and-so is scum, and you're spreading your net wide. I would expect a normal town player who is actually trying to determine people's alignments to have come up with approximately the same amount of scum reads as town reads.

Ok time for some proper analysis.

Just throwing this in. I tend to agree with you that Mastin was buddying you earlier regarding your first post.

I don't think I actually said that tbh.

Damon gant - There's something about the way he posts that screams slightly-inexperienced town.

this isn't his first rodeo

Yeah it's probably his 3rd or something. I still consider that inexperienced.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok I take back everything I said about zdenek. The fake-vig was golden. bipolar is now basically conf-town, that reaction doesn't look fake at all. Zdenek - well he's porbably smart enough to pull off something like that as scum, but I'm not buying it. Town.

unvote

vote: 5nxi7ty

[Damon_Gant]

My responses to the mastin reads I definitely disagreed with that I mentioned earlier.

I am talah! Are you town?

Yuppers, sure am.

Well this is good news! Perhaps if mastin is town too we shall be an unstoppable scumhunting force.
Or the first three nightkills ><

Rogers, add trying to build a coalition of friends based on past exploits rather than current-game evidence.

Unvote
Vote: talah

Out of RVS

Provocative in the right ways. His other posts are neutral, but I definitely feel this one leans town. As I was asked to contrast against mastin's garbage read - mastin seems to imply that Doc's post where he might be leaving room open to vote for bjc later is scummy. I just think it was a valid observation, but obviously his suspicions were elsewhere. Doc does need to post again.

You can't read much from bjc's opening post; you have to question why scum would want to draw attention to themselves so needlessly early on, but it could be some sort of ridiculous bluff.

He comes across as apathetic, which I would attribute more to Town in the early stages of a game as opposed to scum.

Luca has two posts. One of them is a vote for Doc with no justification. The other is this mush, which is just a post to sound like it's saying something, rather than the nothing it really is. It just seems like an attempt at active lurking, with a healthy dose of fencesitting. To call this town is probably mastin's most bizarre read. We definitely need to see more posts from Luca.

As for talah, just the overall feel of his posts feels like something coming from town to me. Again, provocative in the right ways, seems to be genuinely scumhunting, called out mastin which is a big plus in my opinion when already there's been a couple of people in this game defending her by proxy. The only negative in talah's posts is the OMGUS vote on Doc, which I don't really like - but everything else is good stuff.

As for other reads, I definitely have at least a gut suspicion about mastin after her first few posts in this game, and I have a gut townread on Mister Rogers - but I find this to be quite dangerous because so does everyone else. As I mentioned earlier, I don't like Peregrine's comment about BBMolla "scum-placing" out, and he also should post again.

Damon gant - There's something about the way he posts that screams slightly-inexperienced town.

this isn't his first rodeo

Correct - I'd hate to be called inexperienced. However, I am rusty, having not played for 2 years.

Also to be noted is that 3 slots - Smudger, Nero Cain, and projectmatt - are yet to make a single contribution to the game.

I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.

This wasn't meant to be "calling them out", but rather noting that 3 slots who could be anything were yet to enter the game in any way at all, and we should remember that. As it is, projectmatt came in with a post that I consider townish. Also, the interpretation of this post as an interaction between scumbuddies by zdenek is really really bad.

Unvote: bjc
Vote: Luca Blight

I don't massively enjoy putting my vote on someone who has made only one post of (kinda) substance, but I think my vote is more useful here for now. Encouraging a scummy lurker from their hideyhole is no bad thing.

[Plessiez]

It's day 1. Deadline for the day is March 28th, 21:59 UTC. That's (expired on 2014-03-28 17:59:48).

Vote Count 1.5

Damon_Gant [5 votes] (4nxi3ty, SnowStorm, mastin2, Zdenek, Mister Rogers)
Doc Holliday [4 votes] (DeasVail, bjc, Luca Blight, talah)
PeregrineV [2 votes] (Yates, RachMarie)
bjc [1 vote] (Peregrine V)
mastin2 [1 vote] (BipolarChemist)
talah [1 vote] (Doc Holliday)
4n3xi3ty [1 vote] (ThAdmiral)
Luca Blight [1 vote] (Damon_Gant)

4 players are not voting

: {aptil, BipolarChemist, Nero Cain, Smudger}

With

20

players alive it takes

11

votes to lynch somebody or to go to night.

[Damon_Gant]

Also, I like the fake vig - a lot.

[Mister Rogers]

Although I would be up for wagoning Luca, not for Luca's solitary Doc vote (that's null), for defending bjc

while leaving room for doubt

with "but it could be some sort of ridiculous buff"

Ahem. But didn't you do this with both myself AND DG but at the opposite of the spectrum? O_o

[Mister Rogers]

@DG: With a join date of 2010, how much mafia experience do you have DG? Did you read Thad's post #143?

[Mister Rogers]

OOOPS. Blush. I'm not caught up yet. Skimmed your post. Sorry, I have to force myself to digest posts manually to avoid stupidity like that. I see you covered it.

[Mister Rogers]

@Mod: Can we please prod Pere.

[Plessiez]

PeregrineV hasn't posted for over 48 hours and hasn't arranged a V/LA. He has therefore been prodded.

[DeasVail]

Sorry, I planned to post tonight, but I'll have to postpone it for a day.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok time for some proper analysis.

Just throwing this in. I tend to agree with you that Mastin was buddying you earlier regarding your first post.

I don't think I actually said that tbh.

You know I went back and looked at the post & I think it was what I actually expected you to say there...

[Mister Rogers]

As for me, #202 earns the benefit of my doubt. I ESPECIALLY like how he actually followed through with his Mastin analysis; I read his intention as posturing and I was pretty sure we would never see that post. I also appreciate all the genuine thought and effort that went into that post.

Unvote

Very close to creating full analysis post at which time I will have a top set of scum (minus Nero & Smudge).

[4nxi3ty]

Although I would be up for wagoning Luca, not for Luca's solitary Doc vote (that's null), for defending bjc

while leaving room for doubt

with "but it could be some sort of ridiculous buff"

Ahem. But didn't you do this with both myself AND DG but at the opposite of the spectrum? O_o

yes, that's the point, it's the opposite. What's the motivation for someone to leave room for a read to be town, i.e. less credit for a lynch? Compared to leaving the door open for suspicion, i.e. giving credit to lynch while defending against it? And I never showed any doubt with my DG read.

-

I've changed my mind about damon.

unvote, vote: Luca

[PeregrineV]

Prod received. Will read today.

[Mister Rogers]

Although I would be up for wagoning Luca, not for Luca's solitary Doc vote (that's null), for defending bjc

while leaving room for doubt

with "but it could be some sort of ridiculous buff"

Ahem. But didn't you do this with both myself AND DG but at the opposite of the spectrum? O_o

yes, that's the point, it's the opposite. What's the motivation for someone to leave room for a read to be town, i.e. less credit for a lynch?

Are you seriously asking this question? How about Player A as scum knows Player B is town but wants some wiggle room in case the lynch goes through or the player is NK'ed?

Compared to leaving the door open for suspicion, i.e. giving credit to lynch while defending against it?

Well ya scum love their night Q/T and I can't help think of Doc when I say this but that doesn't change the fact that door swings in both directions.

And I never showed any doubt with my DG read.

ORLY? The term "vote parking" means a temporary place to put your vote until later. The word "until" indicates a time in which your vote will no longer be on DG and "more people enter the game" is a clear condition for when your vote will move.

It reads more like town posturing; appearing to be busy doing something a townie would do rather than any genuine scum hunting.

[Mister Rogers]

How about I "park" my vote here until I am done with my analysis post?

Vote Anxiety

Notice how temporary it feels and like how it lacks force?

The thing is I've parked in a bad part of town and I have alot of typing to do and so I might just return to the car and find it up on blocks... (WELP)

[Yates]

Catch up post time. Alright, let's see where we are at...

1. Pere needs to get in here and respond to post 86. Because, you know, I'd throw a vote Pere's way for scum-ignoring the thread.

2.

1) What allies did I call for?

Mastin in post 15 stood out enough that I took note of it as well. And I guess Deas in your opening post but that one was a little less eggregious. I don't find this alignment indicative at this point but it's certainly an interaction worth pointing out in the event either of you flips scum.

3.

I have a proposal: larges these days have exploded in length. I am proposing we limit posts per person to be five a day, to see if we can get the shortest recent large game.

Worst proposal ever? Not sure. At

least

on par with leashing SK's, though.

4. RE: the fake scum claim...

I just hate this sort of behaviour. And then he follows it up with "It's just a joke, sheesh" acting all surprised people are jumping on him after he claimed scum.

I agree. I hate the fake scum claim as much as a self vote. I think you are overstating how scummy it is - since we were both in a game where Town did this - but it is annoying and frustrating and can be difficult to see past. Perfectly acceptable reason for an RVS vote. Not a great point to build a case on, though.

5. I'm not a fan of self-meta. But this is legit:

Seriously, every scum win of mine is through creating a narrative, painting the picture that I want it to. No, I am most certainly NOT a good orator as town, because I don't have the whole picture.

Serious question; did I ever tell you this is

exactly

how I meta read you when you aren't a hydra? You seem way more focused/calculating as scum.

6.

Damon is ignoring everything that's happened in the game so far to focus on something alignment irrelevant

Yup. As stated in note 4, it's annoying but totally null. At least ThAd seems to be a little more focused on the

reaction

to being called out on it than the statement itself - which is a legit angle to pursue. Gant trying to paint the statement as being as scummy as he did in post 104 is the kind of "narrative" that I expect to see from scum trying to paint a statement as WAY more scummy than it actually is.

7.

I think that Mister Rodgers is town. There's opportunistic scum and then there's the kind of town who plays on the offensive, "I want to win so badly!' mode.

I'm leaning in this direction as well.

8.

Maybe white-knighting isn't the right term. Chainsaw defending?

I was going to say "buddying is probably the right word," but I double-checked Z's ISO. Literally a 3 post in a row chainsaw defense, something random, then another chainsaw.

@Zdenek

- can you explain how you arrived at what must be an obv Town read on bjc that's so strong it lead you to the conclusions posted in posts 50, 51, 53, and 56?

Also, on a kind of related but unrelated point, can you explain post 144 to me? I mean, I agree with Chemist that Gant calling out a dude [projectmatt] for not posting that has only been in the game for an hour is pretty sketch. Do you disagree? What am I missing, here?

9.

Rach made posts questioning why someone else thought she was town. I think that's pretty town, as I don't see scum questioning that.

This is yucky. I'm pretty sure I've seen scum pretend to be confused about a Town read on their slot in MOST of the games I've played in. How many games have you played here?

10. This is the big one. I'm really confused as to why everyone is handing out Town reads for an obvious fake kill? I mean... look at this:

Spoiler:

Kill: BipolarChemist

Fuck this noise.

...

Man, you don't really get that I'm being sarcastic do you?

Well it doesn't matter cause you're dead and I won't have to worry about it any more.

Fair enough. At least I'm just VT, yo. I assume I can post until I'm actually dead? At least that's what I got from the rules.

Whelp

Unvote

Vote: Gant

^Ye sorry bro. Antagonizing you was fun, didn't really expect a vig

Well at least we know you're town.

Or do you?! MUAHAHA. No ya I'm town.

This all happened in the span of like 15 minutes. This actually looks

organic

to some of you???
Matt?

Unvote

Aww man, BipolarChemist is most likely town

ThAd

??

Ok I take back everything I said about zdenek. The fake-vig was golden. bipolar is now basically conf-town, that reaction doesn't look fake at all.

Gant??

Also, I like the fake vig - a lot.

What's weird is that I haven't been reading Zdenek as scum, yet I can't shake the feeling that the fake vig shot interaction looks super contrived. That bjc chainsaw defense is also standing out in a vacuum.

PE:

Notice how temporary it feels and like how it lacks force?

How "forceful" do you expect a day 1 vote to be? Would I not be allowed to change my mind on Pere if he comes in and Towns up his response to my question? I read the same post you did. It didn't strike me as particularly scummy.

[Plessiez]

Luca Blight hasn't posted for over 48 hours and hasn't arranged a V/LA. He has therefore been prodded.

[4nxi3ty]

Are you seriously asking this question? How about Player A as scum knows Player B is town but wants some wiggle room in case the lynch goes through or the player is NK'ed?

ORLY? The term "vote parking" means a temporary place to put your vote until later. The word "until" indicates a time in which your vote will no longer be on DG and "more people enter the game" is a clear condition for when your vote will move.

That's assuming I would actually need the wiggle room that early in the game, when it is impossible to tell which lynch will go through or who is likely to be NK'ed.

Your reading too much into it. At the time I had no plan to stay or leave DG. I was simply stating where I currently liked having my vote, and wanting to wait and see how those who haven't really posted interacted before deciding if I wanted to pressure DG more or if my vote was more useful someplace else.

How about I "park" my vote here until I am done with my analysis post?

Vote Anxiety

Notice how temporary it feels and like how it lacks force?

The thing is I've parked in a bad part of town and I have alot of typing to do and so I might just return to the car and find it up on blocks... (WELP)

-__- no need to get sassy with me, I already get where your coming from.

[mastin2]

Mod: V/LA for the next week. ESPECIALLY Thursday-Sunday.

My grandmother's dieing. She's in a coma, and fading fast. She's the relative I go to visit in southern Oregon each year, meaning that when I go down there, I'm obviously going to be V/LA, emphasis on the Limited Access. I'll do what I can to keep playing, though.

how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?

Prolly cuz posts like this.

^That. Don't remember if I was townreading you or not, but I am now.

Now trying to spoonfeed us what her meta is.

I never bring up my meta unless someone else brings up an erroneous version of it, like talah did. Regardless of alignment, I don't fight meta that's correct (even if the conclusion is wrong--yes, it is possible to be right on meta yet wrong on the read, because a town-me evolves [and even frequently incorporates successful elements of my scumplay into my towngame!] and a scum-me is capable of mimicking my townplay fairly accurately); regardless of alignment, I will shoot down meta that is wrong.

To give my most recently-completed towngame, look at Tales of Vesperia, the Wallduskkel hydra. It should be fairly obvious which posts are me and which came from Ald. It's not the best game to meta me off of (there are much better ones), but it's the most recently completed game, giving you the most contemporary meta I have.

You're going to have to explain the whole "Talah

is

scum" but "My scumread here (damon gant) is much, much stronger".

Scales of scumread? Doc is minor. Talah was medium-strong. (Now is weak-at-worst. Give me a while to mull it over.) Damon is super-mega-basically-confscum-strong.

No way mastin. (But I don't mind wagonning people and lynching someone and not drawing day one out to 100 pages for instance.)

(For the record? Do the math on 5 posts per day in a 20 player game with two weeks. It's ~70 pages.)

I think that Mister Rodgers is town. There's opportunistic scum and then there's the kind of town who plays on the offensive, "I want to win so badly!' mode. It seems pretty blatant that Mr. Rodgers is an alternate account who is trying to come off as very confident. In terms of getting him read successfully - it works. I'm pretty sure that he's town, but I don't exactly agree with all of his analysis.

Townread on Zdenek. Townread on DeasVail. Tentative townread on bjc. Tentative townread on RachMarie.

I know most of you are calling out Damon Giant for voting bjc, but [Doc's] post is actually a

worse

sin. This looks like a way for Doc to essentially give himself wriggle room to vote BJC later in the game. The rest of his play hasn't given me much of an indicator of his alignment, though.

Pretty dang certain this slot's town. (Though, I still prefer Molla. Molla, I can obvtown. You, not so much.)

Damon gant - There's something about the way he posts that screams slightly-inexperienced town. Stubbornly going after bjc, questioning zdenek for accusing him of being scum without any explanation. town

Look at his joindate, ThAd. Damon's had plenty of games; he's anything but inexperienced.

Whelp

Yeah, while I suppose it's possible Mr. Chemist here knows the routine with daykill claims, if so, that's a

wonderful

job on having hidden it; it

really

looks genuine.

This is important and needs responding to.

Fairly certain I already did? There's less than a handful of people who really get me as a player. Like, literally, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is AP. There's others, of course, but he's the only one in my mind who has that 100% accuracy. Others have tried, and scum have claimed they can, but they either failed or lied.

So I feel like at least we have an amiable connection to the point where if mastin's town, I'd like to work with her, and I'd think that she'd be far more cautious and wanting to determine my alignment rather than just dropping a vote on me and then telling me I know virtually nothing about her.

Point for consideration: it might seem like it's impossible, but I, uh...actually forgot who you were until you reminded me. Rather, I knew, "oh, talah, I actually know him" (a significant portion of this playerlist, I do not), but forgot the details. I remembered you being in Gundam (not that you were awesome--that I also forgot), but had totally forgotten we hydraed. I vaguely recalled you being decently good, but that's about it.

You seem way more focused/calculating as scum.

Yeah, I'm fairly good as scum. However, I'm not nearly as good this year at it as I was last year. In 2013, I had a decent towngame and a solid, SOLID scumgame. This year, my towngame has been meh-at-best so far, and my scumgame's also taken a severe hit in strength, too. I suspect both actually have a root in the same problem: people are expecting my play to be more than it actually is, assuming I'm better than I actually am, alignment-regardless. Heck, even my theory capacities have gone downhill; it's been three months, and there's barely been a ping on me making an MD thread so far. (Well, there has been, but I need to refine the idea so that it doesn't send off the wrong message of condoning something rather than the intended effect of potentially offering an explanation for said something.)

(Yates is town, by the way. His stances don't come from scum, like...at all.)

[Damon_Gant]

So I've looked at mastin's meta in the opening phases of games with some degree of depth, and what I'll say is that I'm kinda satisfied with mastin's self-meta. Certainly mastin's play so far here does seem to be more indicative of townmastin than scummastin based on meta, so I guess some of my gut suspicion is lifted.

[Plessiez]

Doc Holliday hasn't posted for over 48 hours and hasn't arranged a V/LA. He has therefore been prodded.

[PeregrineV]

I'm V/LA due to a brew competition this weekend. I'll be active starting Monday.

That said... what is this?

Would also throw a vote BBMolla's way for scum-placing out.

Does BBMolla

actually

have a track record of replacing out of games as scum or are you being terrible for no reason?

You are better than this.

VOTE: PeregrineV

I'll say yes and let you prove otherwise.

I'd normally give you grief for this, but since we've actually played together quite a bit, I'll allow you to suggest it.

Someone claimed scum. Thoughts on that.

[PeregrineV]

I just hate this sort of behaviour. And then he follows it up with "It's just a joke, sheesh" acting all surprised people are jumping on him after he claimed scum. Come on.