NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #725 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:25 pm

Post by Damon_Gant »

In post 684, Yates wrote:
In post 657, Damon_Gant wrote:List of people I consider to be lurkers:
SnowStorm, aptil, Rach, bjc,
Yates
Another one accusing me of this?? WTF... Anyone calling me a "lurker" needs to check themselves. I have more CONTENT than you, Gant.
Firstly, no you don't, your posts may be long but they're packed with nothingness. You're using talking points that other people who are townreading you have given you. I will admit that it may be harsh to call you a lurker - you're posting once a day now - it's just that everyone else is drowning out your posts. At the time I made that post you certainly weren't one of the 'lurkers; that I was thinking about lynching.
In post 685, Mister Rogers wrote:DG had his chance but his promise of "eyeballing everyone" was a bunch of crap and goes beyond just being "rusty".
I am indeed "eyeballing everyone". Yesterday I looked at the ISO of literally every person in the game except yourself (because heavens knows going through your ISO is going to be a chore). I didn't promise that I was going to post detailed reads on every person in the game, because honestly, most of my thoughts are still going by gut and it wouldn't be useful to do so. However, if you want a list of my gut feels then

Scum: Luca, aptil, 4nxiety, SnowStorm, bjc
Null: Pisskop, mastin, Nero, yourself, Rach, Yates, DV
Townreads to some degree: Everyone else

I don't think that's a particularly useful exercise, but at least you now know where I stand approximately on every player in the game.
In post 683, Mister Rogers wrote:I think its far better to target lurker voters.
And even as you say this your vote was sitting on bjc. Get out, just get out, you're full of it! It's bad to speculate about scum daytalk, except when you do it of course. It's bad to vote lurkers, except when you do it. Hell, when you voted bjc, literally the only reason you did was because he's a lurker. You're getting this really easy ride through the game, because lots of people gut-read you as town earlier on. My my have you been abusing that.
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Post Post #726 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:34 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

?????????

I think it was pretty obvious that me and Mastin didn't have the same reads on Luca and you asking me to comment on something that serves no purpose other than cluttering up the thread with a useless discussion. I know you are "new" but players disagree with each other all the time; its not scummy to disagree.

I'm townreading Mastin b/c A.) I don't think he's done anything real scummy and B.)

But I'm a bit curious here...I know Mastin is in your "greys" but why ask me about him?

@Damon-stop "eyeballin'" yo...I'm already spoken for.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #727 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:36 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 726, Nero Cain wrote: I'm townreading Mastin b/c A.) I don't think he's done anything real scummy and B.) I'm far more concerned about other slots.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #728 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:06 pm

Post by Mister Rogers »

In post 725, Damon_Gant wrote: I am indeed "eyeballing everyone". Yesterday I looked at the ISO of literally every person in the game except yourself (because heavens knows going through your ISO is going to be a chore). I didn't promise that I was going to post detailed reads on every person in the game, because honestly,
most of my thoughts are still going by gut and it wouldn't be useful to do so
. However, if you want a list of my gut feels then

Scum: Luca, aptil, 4nxiety, SnowStorm, bjc
Null: Pisskop, mastin, Nero, yourself, Rach, Yates, DV
Townreads to some degree: Everyone else

I don't think that's a particularly useful exercise
, but
at least you now know where I stand approximately on every player in the game
.

Its very important to have some kind of method of communicating your most important reads. If you are scum it allows for town analysis subsequent to your flip. If you are town it helps others in the town gauge your alignment which is very important in catching scum. This is all very basic mafia theory, don't you already know this?
In post 683, Mister Rogers wrote:I think its far better to target lurker voters.
And even as you say this your vote was sitting on bjc.
You are correct. But if you look at my reasons for voting BJC they are mostly to wagon him to provide content because he flat out refused to do so (or simply remove that kind of person from the game) but the
very important
difference is that I have not been tunneling a lurker, making it everything I am doing. The reason that is an important difference is because its very convenient for scum to focus on lurkers instead of getting scum suspects; they aren't around to defend themselves and is just a logical action which has the appearance of being a pro-town action. When someone's ISO only reflects focusing on lurkers, it is suspect for those reasons.

]It's bad to speculate about scum daytalk, except when you do it of course.


The difference is that I didn't specify a particular set of posts when I mentioned daytalk and in fact I was indicating to the ZD-Chem interactions (it would of invalidated the Chem townread). Now granted I tried to use the issue as a tarp and failed but it would of been significant because specifics were used then in an argument.

---

Can you please indicate your posts concerning Anx & Snow that show your thoughts/scum probing?

PS I am sorry if I am coming off as harsh, but I am expecting you to function as someone that has about 2 years of active experience like you said, is that right?
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Post Post #729 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:15 pm

Post by Mister Rogers »

In post 726, Nero Cain wrote:?????????

I think it was pretty obvious that me and Mastin didn't have the same reads on Luca and you asking me to comment on something that serves no purpose other than cluttering up the thread with a useless discussion. I know you are "new" but players disagree with each other all the time; its not scummy to disagree.

I'm townreading Mastin b/c A.) I don't think he's done anything real scummy and B.)

But I'm a bit curious here...I know Mastin is in your "greys" but why ask me about him?

@Damon-stop "eyeballin'" yo...I'm already spoken for.
Its not just Luca but also Aptil & Thad. I also asked you about those two reads. If you check they are both in my Grey too.

I never said it was scummy to disagree but as someone that was basically "new" to the thread going through those posts AND having a differing opinion on a key read (Luca and the exact same opinion as myself) that you would notice that Mastin's reads looked awful strange, as I did.

It is a key point in my estimation because Mastin is unreadable EXCEPT for his reads.

What do you think of Mastin's reads on Aptil & Thad the way he expressed them?
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Post Post #730 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:18 pm

Post by Mister Rogers »

In post 727, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 726, Nero Cain wrote: I'm townreading Mastin b/c A.) I don't think he's done anything real scummy and B.) I'm far more concerned about other slots.
Ok, this makes sense and I partly agree with you. I think much will be resolved with the Mastin catchup.
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Post Post #731 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:19 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 402, Mister Rogers wrote:@DV: There is scum motivation to go against the grain on ZD-Chem.

You also have provided 7 reads in a 20 player game. You could just go through and fill in the remaining 12; especially Mastin.
There really isn't. Since everyone that had expressed an opinion beforehand said they were town, there wasn't really any reason for Yates as scum to think that he had a big chance at making Bipolar a potential mislynch, and 'you're scum freaking out about people being townread too easily!' seems to be a common enough accusation that I believe scum would predict. So, I just don't think it would have been worth it for Yates as scum to take such a strong stance. The fact that I'm one of few thinking this reinforces my point.

As for my reads, I did provide a full list earlier, but if you want me to elaborate on others, I'm probably only likely to actually do it if I believe you're genuinely interested in my opinion. This post makes me think that you're just asking me to do it for the sake of it?
In post 403, talah wrote:Dels, your most recent post is like a wind of joy. I'm glad you're town.
And no, I'm not fooling you, or anyone. I'm just town.
Let's face it. I'm probably going to be paranoid of you as long as the two of us are alive, but every so often as I'm reading through the game there's a moment where I believe you're town without a trace of paranoia, and it's wonderful. :)
In post 413, Yates wrote:Talk to me about Mister Rogers and Zdenek. I need to get out of tunnel mode while waiting for Pere to get in here.
I'm just going to give my general impressions and not hone in on specific posts, but if you'd be interested in that then I'm happy to do that too.

I get the vibe that Mister Rogers is more keen on the whole scumhunting thing then would be necessary for scum to look town (a lot of it also looks rather genuine). He also comes across as having an idea of how things should be done, and wanting everyone else to do things his way, which is something I'd associate a lot more with scum than with town. I think he still could be scum, but it's not something I really want to concern myself with right now.

As for Zdenek, I generally found his scumhunting genuine and pro-active. I particularly liked his attack on Bipolar and while I personally find the concept of fake dayvigs silly now that they're used all the time, I think that the way he went about it was fairly town if Bipolar is town (scum aren't really looking to hand out free townreads, and there wasn't really any way for Zdenek to scumread Bipolar from that). It's possible it could be some big set-up like you suspect, but I think it's a lot of effort for scum to go to and considering that I don't have a huge problem with Zdenek otherwise I'm not too concerned.
In post 440, AngryPidgeon wrote:Can you explain what felt different about Talah before and why you think he could fool you as scum?
I felt that talah was less conventional in our last game. Here he seems to be more 'normal', if that makes any sense. I do think this could be explained by just having been on the site longer, but I'm not sure. I think he could fool me as scum because he's a very good player from what I've seen, so I naturally assume he's good as scum as well!
In post 440, AngryPidgeon wrote:Are you my alt?
:shifty:

~~

I'm not caught up (I have read more than what I've responded to though), but I think I'll have to save the full catch-up and read updating for tomorrow. I definitely should be more involved over the weekend.
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Post Post #732 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:28 pm

Post by Mister Rogers »

In post 731, DeasVail wrote:
In post 402, Mister Rogers wrote:@DV: There is scum motivation to go against the grain on ZD-Chem.

You also have provided 7 reads in a 20 player game. You could just go through and fill in the remaining 12;
especially Mastin
.
I'm probably only likely to actually do it if I believe you're genuinely interested in my opinion. This post makes me think that you're just asking me to do it for the sake of it?
Well I specifically did mention Mastin and I was hoping you would at least do that one?
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Post Post #733 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:40 pm

Post by Plessiez »

It's day 1. Deadline for the day is March 28th, 21:59 UTC. That's (expired on 2014-03-28 17:59:48).

Vote Count 1.12
pisskop [3 votes] (bjc, Luca Blight, Zdenek)
Luca Blight [3 votes] (Damon_Gant, 4nxi3ty, talah)
Yates [2 votes] (projectmatt, pisskop)
bjc [2 votes] (Peregrine V, Yates)
Damon_Gant [2 votes] (SnowStorm, mastin2)
talah [2 votes] (AngryPidgeon, Mister Rogers)
aptil [1 vote] (DeasVail)
4nxi3ty [1 vote] (ThAdmiral)
mastin2 [1 vote] (BipolarChemist)
Nero Cain [1 vote] (RachMarie)
Mister Rogers [1 vote] (Nero Cain)

1 player is not voting
: {aptil}

With
20
players alive it takes
11
votes to lynch somebody or to go to night.


Activity
Nobody has recently been prodded.
BipolarChemist is V/LA until March 23rd.
mastin2 is V/LA until March 31st.
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Post Post #734 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:05 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

In post 728, Mister Rogers wrote: Its very important to have some kind of method of communicating your most important reads. If you are scum it allows for town analysis subsequent to your flip. If you are town it helps others in the town gauge your alignment which is very important in catching scum. This is all very basic mafia theory, don't you already know this?
My most important reads were out there on the record before I made that post. Anyone I hadn't mentioned before it was because my read on them is full of gut and no substance, and I don't think that that type of read helps the town all that much. Those reads are so weak they could flip in a post.
Mr Rogers wrote:
In post 683, Mister Rogers wrote:I think its far better to target lurker voters.
And even as you say this your vote was sitting on bjc.
You are correct. But if you look at my reasons for voting BJC they are mostly to wagon him to provide content because he flat out refused to do so (or simply remove that kind of person from the game) but the
very important
difference is that I have not been tunneling a lurker, making it everything I am doing. The reason that is an important difference is because its very convenient for scum to focus on lurkers instead of getting scum suspects; they aren't around to defend themselves and is just a logical action which has the appearance of being a pro-town action. When someone's ISO only reflects focusing on lurkers, it is suspect for those reasons.
When my list of people who I read scum is 4 out of 5 lurkers what are you supposed to do? I'm dedicated more time than you could know to "eyeballing" other people, but it's just not coming to much. I want to lynch scum, and therefore I want to lynch a lurker because I think that's where the scum are. I've explained this.

Now if I were scum, I'd be doing things very differently. I'd be chasing after someone like pisskop, talah or even you because:
a) It would keep people like you who think voting for lurkers is scummy off my back
b) In fact, people often mistake chasing after those who everyone thinks is town (like you) as a towntell.
c) Keeping lurkers in the game as long as possible is very good for scum

I've said it already, and I'll say it again just so that it's totally completely clear. I want to lynch scum. Everything else is secondary. If we come out of Day 1 having lynched scum, then no matter who it is, lurker or otherwise, I'll be happy.
Mr Rogers wrote:Can you please indicate your posts concerning Anx & Snow that show your thoughts/scum probing?
I have yet to make a post about Snow, but I shall. I mention some feelings about 4nx in 624, though I end up calling him a nullread. On a reread of his ISO, I can get behind scum 4nx because he's constantly just chucking spanners in the works with his thoughts, but not actually elaborating. I know that makes no sense, but just look at these quotes.
In post 599, 4nxi3ty wrote:Talah/Mastin Meta Dispute: instinct: when it comes to meta, ime, there's usually at least one scum involved. Either from the two fighting over meta or the person that steps in and defends/attacks one of the others - haven't parsed through this, thought it should be noted anyway.
Well who is the scum here then? If he believes that there is nearly always a scum involved with meta talks then surely this should be top priority line of inquiry for him.
In post 418, 4nxi3ty wrote:Not sure how I feel about DV floating me into his scum section without commenting/pressuring/interacting with my posts.
Not sure how you feel? What does that even mean? It looks like he's just keeping it open to use this against DV later if he feels like it.

Do you get what I'm saying here? Blindly chucking suspicion around but being completely non-committal about it. Of course this type of thing requires a meta check, so I'll have to do that, but until then this type of thing definitely gets me leaning scum on 4nx.
Mr Rogers wrote:PS I am sorry if I am coming off as harsh, but I am expecting you to function as someone that has about 2 years of active experience like you said, is that right?
Hell, you can expect me to function better, given the off-site experience I've had, plus all the games I've read and studied. Like I said, I haven't played in a while, and that means that perhaps my posting style definitely needs work - indeed, that was the one part of my game that I always felt needed work. However, with regards to strategy, you just seem to have an odd idea of what experience does to a player. Beginners are the ones more likely to follow a strict set of "mafia theory". Experienced players know what theory is good, what is bad, and when to break all the rules dictated by this "theory".
Swimming, anyone?

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Post Post #735 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:29 am

Post by talah »

HAI NERO :D

I'm just being a lazy half drunk fuck and taking a day off, but do you have a read on me yet?

Damon, what the actual fuck was that post you just made about?
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Post Post #736 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:38 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

In post 735, talah wrote:Damon, what the actual fuck was that post you just made about?
A very messy, slightly agitated response to post 728 mainly
Swimming, anyone?

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Post Post #737 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:40 am

Post by talah »

Okay good.
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Post Post #738 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:10 am

Post by aptil »

While posting my second round of reads yesterday , my broadband suddenly stopped working . Posting this from a friend's mobile . Hopefully the situation will be sorted by tomorrow .
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Post Post #739 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:11 am

Post by talah »

So here's what's going to happen with my pet scumlurker over the next few days:

HAI LUCA

He'll post just around or after the next dodge with an opinion on one or two of the non-controversial but mentioned players, probably laying down suspicion on someone like bjc or a quizzical query on Admiral or Pere.

A couple of days later, he'll apologise for lack of content again, and promise a catch up in the next couple of days.

He'll come back with three or four days from deadline and post a strong position on a townie for bad reasons. Then he'll attack one or two popular alternatives, very gently mind you, and place his vote on said strong-positioned townie. Posting twice or three times in the process!

Then two days out from deadline he'll say his vote needs to change to the most popular town candidate for lynch, and if there's opportunity or division close to deadline, he'll compromise on whatever townie's available.

I'm an Oracle.
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Post Post #740 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:11 am

Post by Yates »

In post 695, projectmatt wrote:Yate's analysis is so completely fake and devoid of substance that it hurts.
Is it "devoid of substance" because you can't answer either of the following?
In post 684, Yates wrote:Are you familiar with the Beetlejuice tell? Also, to ask this question a different way, How do you make the distinction between "intentionally" lurking and "simply" lurking?
Or is it because you have no explanation as to why you pretend to be calling people out for lurker voting [even though no one is actually voting bjc for being a lurker] while voting a lurker?

I eagerly anticipate your response.
In post 725, Damon_Gant wrote:I will admit that it may be harsh to call you a lurker... it's just that everyone else is drowning out your posts.
It's more than just harsh, though, it's wrong. I have no control over other people hyper posting. I can start breaking up each of my points into seperate posts - like some others seem to be doing - if you would like for me to clutter up the thread in a large normal?

Or would that also be a problem for you?
In post 725, Damon_Gant wrote:Yesterday I looked at the ISO of literally every person in the game except yourself [Mister Rogers] (because heavens knows
going through your ISO is going to be a chore
).
And as to this gem...
In post 725, Damon_Gant wrote:...your posts may be long but they're packed with nothingness.
Is this really coming from someone that *JUST* posted this...?
In post 725, Damon_Gant wrote:...honestly, most of my thoughts are still going by gut
In post 734, Damon_Gant wrote:Now if I were scum, I'd be doing things very differently. I'd be chasing after someone like pisskop, talah or even you because:
a) It would keep people like you who think voting for lurkers is scummy off my back
So... you're saying you know Mister Rogers is Town? And one of pisskop/talah is your scum buddy?? Good to know.
In post 734, Damon_Gant wrote:However, with regards to strategy, you just seem to have an odd idea of what experience does to a player. Beginners are the ones more likely to follow a strict set of "mafia theory". Experienced players know what theory is good, what is bad, and when to break all the rules dictated by this "theory".
This is pretty much the only thing you've said recently that I agree with. And it's a general mafia discussion point that you never bring back around and apply to the game state or to determine the alignment of a person. Scum 101? [See what I did there?]
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Post Post #741 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:13 am

Post by Yates »

In post 739, talah wrote:I'm an Oracle.
I loled.

But can you answer my question from yesterday, please?
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Post Post #742 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:15 am

Post by Yates »

In post 738, aptil wrote:Hopefully the situation will be sorted by tomorrow .
:neutral:

Please hurry it along as quickly as possible. I would really like to see you come in here and Town up the joint so absolutely that Matt chokes on it. Thanks in advance.
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Post Post #743 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:19 am

Post by talah »

In post 738, aptil wrote:While posting my second round of reads yesterday , my broadband suddenly stopped working . Posting this from a friend's mobile . Hopefully the situation will be sorted by tomorrow .
I'm so so fucking sorry to hear about your lack of connectivity problems and how if affects the fact that nobody can read you in a game of mafia which you signed up for.

Broadband problems in the US are apparently epidemic.
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Post Post #744 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:20 am

Post by talah »

In post 741, Yates wrote:
In post 739, talah wrote:I'm an Oracle.
I loled.

But can you answer my question from yesterday, please?
Which was?
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Post Post #745 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:25 am

Post by talah »

Oh bjc
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Post Post #746 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:26 am

Post by talah »

Yeah I'm pleading the fifth, shouldn't have brought it up. But it doesn't seem against type.
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Post Post #747 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:27 am

Post by Yates »

In post 744, talah wrote:Which was?
Well... really I'd like for you to respond to the points in post 684 that pertain to you.
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Post Post #748 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:42 am

Post by talah »

Well the other two points are you commenting about my take on matt and not liking my call on AP.

The matt thing was just when you glaze over when a post's meter seems slow? (yes that question mark is intentional)
I haven't found it a strong tell but then again I've (collaboratively) caught scum from it (and mastin can tell you about kalimar in Gumdam if you ask). Matt's post isn't identical, obviously, so it affected my take on him and prompted me to mention it, because you know, reactions are great when the person you're commenting on gets a chance to respond independently (or ignore it, which I guess he did).

The other thing - err I don't even know what you're getting at. I knew AP didn't have info on Luca (or at least, strongly suspected he didn't), and if he actually did I would have dropped it immediately on a say-so. Turns out he didn't, so I am still Not seeing the issue with wagonning the crap out of lurkers while we have a week on the clock. Apparently that's scummy, to want content from lurkers.

'tevs. Stop trolling me while I'm drunk.
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Post Post #749 (ISO) » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:05 am

Post by Damon_Gant »

In post 740, Yates wrote:=
In post 725, Damon_Gant wrote:I will admit that it may be harsh to call you a lurker... it's just that everyone else is drowning out your posts.
It's more than just harsh, though, it's wrong. I have no control over other people hyper posting. I can start breaking up each of my points into seperate posts - like some others seem to be doing - if you would like for me to clutter up the thread in a large normal?

Or would that also be a problem for you?
In post 725, Damon_Gant wrote:Yesterday I looked at the ISO of literally every person in the game except yourself [Mister Rogers] (because heavens knows
going through your ISO is going to be a chore
).
Sorry, if I didn't word it strongly enough before, but this is what I meant.
I was mistaken in calling you a lurker
, when in truth you're posting daily but just getting drowned out by people who are posting with insane frequency.
In post 740, Yates wrote:
In post 734, Damon_Gant wrote:Now if I were scum, I'd be doing things very differently. I'd be chasing after someone like pisskop, talah or even you because:
a) It would keep people like you who think voting for lurkers is scummy off my back
So... you're saying you know Mister Rogers is Town? And one of pisskop/talah is your scum buddy?? Good to know.
And no...no I am not saying that. I'm not sure I can let that one go - you've been playing mafia too long to be dumb enough to even suggest that - particularly the point that you seem to think I have "let slip" that Mister Rogers is town, which is just laughably stupid. I've got my eye on you.
Swimming, anyone?

Call me Gant

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