NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[Snork]

bah... I'm tired.

where is projectmatt?

[DeasVail]

Once again, apologies for the delay, but this is happening now, right now, and there's nothing that can stop me.

Firstly, catching up on the thread:

Snork, I will say that Rach saying things irrelevant to the game is not alignment-indicative. I want to ISO her to clarify my read on her (I think I could go either way at this point), but I do encourage you to consider alignment over how productive her play is.

4nx, why are you not considering talah's townread of me, considering that he was the one that mentioned crossed t's and dotted i's being a scumtell of mine in the first place?

I also (surprisingly!) agree with AP who first brought this up.

So this is awkward but me agreeing with you about Damon is not? Ok then!

sorta waiting for mastin's response and dv to start playing again.

Today is the day!

@Damon (and anyone else I guess): Why does SnowStorm as scum stop voting for talah (who is a pretty ideal lynch for scum as he's actually a good player) and change it to ThAdmiral?

~~

Ok, completely caught up, now onto reads:

I want to exclude the following players from a lynch today:

Penguin
Snork
Egg (As I think someone else mentioned, I believe Bipolar would have been super into the game after pulling off the daykill thing successfully, whereas his subsequent posting and replace-out matches up more imo with town struggling to keep up with the game. Egg has been good so far too).
Nero Cain
Aptil
Yates
PeregrineV
RachMarie (Nero's defense has sold me)
ThAdmiral

Projectmatt
Mastin2

The last two here are probably a tier below the others, but I actually thought Matt's last post was much more town than scum (contrary to popular opinion) and I think mastin's read of me is quite genuine (I feel he could easily just scumread me if he were scum) and I have no problem with the rest of his posts.

That leaves me:

TheWayItEnds
AngryPidgeon
SnowStorm
Damon_Gant
4nxi3ty

I think I have slight townreads on the last three, and AP > TheWay at the moment, so:

Vote: AngryPidgeon

Explanation coming today.

Also, there are a couple of my 'do not lynch' reads that I think could be potential scumreads, but I want to wait before lynching them.

[Snork]

Why?

[RachMarie]

VOTE: Way dude

He replaced in for pisskop and based on the off the wagons, and I do think there was probably ONE scum off both town wagons and the others were split tween the two town wagons, I think pisskop was the scum off both wagons.

[Snork]

Is that the only reason for your vote?

[TheWayItEnds]

[ThAdmiral]

VOTE: Way dude

He replaced in for pisskop and based on the off the wagons, and I do think there was probably ONE scum off both town wagons and the others were split tween the two town wagons, I think pisskop was the scum off both wagons.

Pisskop was inactive. I don't think he necessarily chose to be off both wagons.

This is such an inane reason to vote someone.

[ThAdmiral]

Musn't question rach, though, because she "always plays like this" and is "clearly town".
ffs

[Nero Cain]

then move your vote

[ThAdmiral]

This is all she said about that slot previously:

I was reading Pisskop's ISO who replaced him? Because I am not liking what I see so far in that slot.

[ThAdmiral]

then move your vote

move

your

vote!

[Nero Cain]

whats your town case on Thad?

[Nero Cain]

whats your town case on Thad?

[ThAdmiral]

He's just a really cool guy, how could you think he's scum?

[ThAdmiral]

In all seriousness I guess the case for town-thad is that no one has been able to really quantify why they think I'm scum, or if they have reasons they are weak/invalid
- Snork was on me day 1 mainly for defending talah, but as it turns out I was right about that one.
- Snowstorm doesn't like me because of my behaviour regarding bjc early day 1 but I feel like I've adequately explained my thought process there. He also accused me of going after scummy people, which I'm happy to admit being guilty of.
- ap didn't like me yesterday because I thought zdenek was town after his fake-vig gambit (although I was right about that one as well)
- gants been flipping back and forth between town and scum-reading me, however when he's been scum reading me it's mainly because I've felt weird/odd/uneasy to him
- aptil is voting me because... I don't know. Possibly because he incorrectly thinks I didn't believe his vig claim?
- you're voting for me, as far as I can tell, because you disagree with my push on rach, even though you agreed with me yesterday that rach was suspect

have I forgotten anyone?

Like, seriously - if you think bad cases being pushed against someone makes them town I should be among your top townreads.

[Yates]

if she kept playing like this she'd be bus material.

I sort of see what you are saying. I'm not sure that's how it plays out irl. I'll have to check some games to see if this bears out. Is this a new theory or something you've seen elsewhere?

I think pisskop was the scum off both wagons.

Agreed. ^5

Pisskop was inactive. I don't think he necessarily chose to be off both wagons.

Pretty sure he was active for the majority of it. Plus, have you READ his ISO? I've been scum reading that slot since Day 1. I realize TWIE can't answer for that but he has also been playing pretty terrible since replacing in. No solid reads. No scum hunting effort. No attempt to understand the game state. Bleh. It looks like someone trying to hide and - ironically - stands out like a sore thumb [no pun intended!].

In all seriousness I guess the case for town-thad is that no one has been able to really quantify why they think I'm scum, or if they have reasons they are weak/invalid

So... scum caught for the wrong reasons?

[ThAdmiral]

Am I scum, yates?

[TheWayItEnds]

Pisskop was inactive. I don't think he necessarily chose to be off both wagons.

Pretty sure he was active for the majority of it. Plus, have you READ his ISO? I've been scum reading that slot since Day 1. I realize TWIE can't answer for that but he has also been playing pretty terrible since replacing in. No solid reads. No scum hunting effort. No attempt to understand the game state. Bleh. It looks like someone trying to hide and - ironically - stands out like a sore thumb [no pun intended!].

Man you're right. I'm totally trying to hide. Thats why I keep posting sarcastic replies to your terrible posts today. I also do have some pretty solid reads to the tune of 3 town and 2 scum that i would like lynched today as well as 2 others that i would be fine with lynching that i've just mentioned in my wall literally 1 page ago.

In other news pisskop stopped posting on page 52 before he was replaced. So you know... 18 pages before you lynched someone. Where 7 people were still not on either of the leading wagons. With his vote that he hasn't moved since page 29. What a calculated way to stay off the leading wagons, by replacing out of 3 games so that he wouldn't have to place a vote on either candidate. Fucking pisskop. So next level.

Its like you've literally put in no effort today and by just saying pisskops name in the thread you can make me scum. Seriously put any effort into this game, or get lynched. I'm really starting to not care which.

And seriously if the case against me is that one of the 2 people off the scum wagon HAS to be scum because fucking RachMarie the paragon of scum hunters said so and pisskop was lurky which is waaaaay worse than mastin being V/LA all of day 1 (because we were the only 2 people not on a wagon, and theres LITERALLY ZERO chance of one of us not being scum), so it has so be him even though he wasnt around during the time period that the lynch was occuring...

Looks like you got me.

[Plessiez]

It's day 2. Deadline for the day is 13th April, 15:45. That's (expired on 2014-04-13 15:45:32).

Vote Count 2.6

SnowStorm [5 votes] (penguin_alien, 4nxi3ty, Angry Pidgeon, mastin2, Damon_Gant)
ThAdmiral [3 votes] (SnowStorm, aptil, Nero Cain)
RachMarie [2 votes] (Snork, ThAdmiral)
TheWayItEnds [2 votes] (Yates, RachMarie)
4nxi3ty [1 vote] (PeregrineV)
AngryPidgeon [1 vote] (DeasVail)

3 players are not voting

: {Egg, projectmatt, TheWayItEnds}

With

17

players alive it takes

9

votes to lynch somebody or to go to night.

Activity

RachMarie is V/LA until April 6th.
mastin2 is V/LA until April 7th.
projecttmatt is V/LA until April 7th.
Yates is V/LA.

[DeasVail]

I don't like TWIE's latest post...

But anyway, onto AngryPidgeon:

-I think his suspicion of Talah is forced, highlighted by his use of OMGUS as a reason why talah was scummy.
-I feel that his interaction with me in 440 is quite telling. Obviously he agreed with me about a few things and also had a townread on me at the time. The problem then, is how he reacts to me later in the day when I more forcefully townread talah. The leap from at least having some respect for me as a player in 440 to assuming that I'm 'less than sensible' when it comes to talah and less likely town too is one that I don't think would be made to that extent as town (I'd expect the change here to be more gradual and less certain). So, either the comments in 440 were specifically tailored to improve my opinion of AP and not genuine (scum), or the unrelenting scumread on talah and complete dismissal of my opinion + subsequent suspicion was forced (scum).
Also, such unwillingness to reconsider his scumread on talah also is scummy when you consider how easily he reconsidered other reads such as the townread on me (showing that he is not particularly prone to confirmation bias).
-1409 seems to come right about the time that he's decided not to townread me anymore. How convenient! Never mind that what he's accusing me of is completely ridiculous (my townlist had one less player with the players taken off being completely reasonable choices if he actually cared to investigate) and hopping onto Luca was obviously the right move if I wanted to prevent a talah lynch, so I feel like it's scum trying to build up a scumread on me there. I don't think he ever addressed these problems when I brought them up either.
-The last bit of 1482 is trying too hard to discredit my opinion.

Nobody is allowed to read mastin except me. Not after anything goes. If matin is scum, I'll know by D2 at the latest. If I die tonight, consider that a mastin scum claim as well.

Talah insists that I be responsible for reading mastin because of SELFMETA from mastin stating that Im good at reading her.

lol

Using street racers as an example of why flashwagons are bad feels fake.

AP continuing to scumread me today despite disagreeing with him on talah being how it came about feels forced as well.

Again, the accusation he makes of me in 1797 shows that he's more concerned with explaining himself than scumhunting. He thinks that I'm asking for a case on PA so that I can sheep it, but the only way this can be validated is if I do actually sheep it, and AP mentioning it means that it can't be validated ever, so basically he doesn't care about working out my alignment.

I haven't gotten to the second page of his ISO yet (most of it's been covered though), but I probably will later.

[4nxi3ty]

unvote, vote: Mastin

want to see what's up here, especially with why she voted snowstorm over me.

For example, claiming that you make playstyle changes between games after calling Mastin out because "shes seen your scum game" feels really disingenuous back to back.

I believe you meant to type PeregrineV. Well I wasn't calling PV out as much as I was bringing up history to get a better read on PV. And it's not like pisskop and PV have the same experience with my meta.

4nx, why are you not considering talah's townread of me, considering that he was the one that mentioned crossed t's and dotted i's being a scumtell of mine in the first place?

cuz I'm not talah and have my own opinions of people. Tho I should be open to considering the reads of dead players, true.

[RachMarie]

Hold your britches there Way, I ain't finished and it is not finished til the fat lady sings, and I have not sung yet.

I plan on analyzing for those ON the two wagons too, but it takes longer to sort all of them out, so I started with the smallest pool.

I never said I was a paragon at scum hunting either, I usually figure out about 50 % of the scum.

[RachMarie]

DV do you have games with AP where he was scum and if so can you provide links? Because I am not so sure he is scum. I am town reading him.

[Damon_Gant]

@Damon (and anyone else I guess): Why does SnowStorm as scum stop voting for talah (who is a pretty ideal lynch for scum as he's actually a good player) and change it to ThAdmiral?

A few reasons I can think of:

a) To encourage another wagon and split up town votes more - causing confusion and small potential for no lynch.
b) talah may well be a good player but equally as long as he was in this game an aura of suspicion would have followed him. Keeping a player who a large number of people are suspicious of in the game for a long time can certainly work for scum later.
c) Hunting for PRs - hoping to induce a flashwagon on ThAd.

[DeasVail]

DV do you have games with AP where he was scum and if so can you provide links? Because I am not so sure he is scum. I am town reading him.

The read is based entirely on his play this game. Why do you townread him?