NY 171: An Education in Telling Jokes (Game Over!)

[Yates]

Can you talk to me about Bulba for a sec? Am I conf biasing here or is his attack on me... uh... inconsistent with how he's claiming to read people?

[Green Crayons]

Can you talk to me about Bulba for a sec? Am I conf biasing here or is his attack on me... uh... inconsistent with how he's claiming to read people?

Since you mention it, I would like Bulb to explain failing to address this:

6. Re: lack of activity from your slot - You know how many scum wagons your slot has been on? It shouldn't take too long to count to zero.

Conversely, I killed the Mafia RB and the Mafia Encryptor.

So for a non-contributing slot to wonder why I - as someone that has contributed reads, advanced the game, killed scum, and actually scum hunted contrary to your bs accusation - would have the gall to call your slot "broken" is laughable.

Even though he caught similar things on reread (presumably of the vote counts) such as:

Marquis:

Come on. There's no way a player like Marquis actively pursues and busses 3 of his buddies. Marquis is about as obv. town as you can get.

[DeathNote]

Please dont hammer Nacho yet... I have been deliberately avoiding reading that slot because I don't want to get caught up in the hype of another mislynch with no bases. Let me keep some of these conversations going a wee bit longer... which is hard to do when you work all day. I am going to shower, clear my head, and then come back and read what I have missed since my last post.

Nacho, get your ass back here and post. Unless you really are scum, then stay hidden and we will probably hammer you soon.

EDIT:
@Ythan- What question? The meaningful question nonsense? Ythan, I would feel more threatened by you if you weren't so condescending. Other peoples methods of scum hunting are not stupid just because you say it is. I don't want to get in another bitch fest with you like I did UT early in the game but please just be reasonable for a few posts and not shrug off other peoples post as idiocracy. I asked if you were scum. I expected a valid response. I don't ever expect people to flat out say, "Yes I am scum." But how people respond to the question, "Are you scum?" can often be very revealing.

[Ythan]

I don't ever expect people to flat out say, "Yes I am scum." But how people respond to the question, "Are you scum?" can often be very revealing.

Explain how.

[Marquis]

I don't ever expect people to flat out say, "Yes I am scum." But how people respond to the question, "Are you scum?" can often be very revealing.

Explain how.

Well, if I've logged on after a bad day, I might say "I am the Mafia Bulletproof Mason Lover" in an attempt to entertain myself as people trip all over it as a scumslip of some sort.

On the other hand, if my day has been perfectly pleasant, I might say "Lana Del Rey" because I can.

DeathNote, you might want to be able to read into how people answer it, but the only thing "Are you scum?" reveals is just how fucking awesome I think Lana Del Rey's latest single is. Trying to extract a scumtell from that is like saying I'm scum for sheeping a strong town read onto multiple scum lynches!...

[DeathNote]

Sure but does it matter? It is all opinionated anyways.
If a player is snarky about the comment, usually replying in wit or pushing the question back, then I consider that a town tell.
If a player ignores the question, I consider that a scum tell.
If a player gets flustered by the question, then I consider that a scum tell.
If a player refuses the question, I consider that a null tell which means I will follow up with different questions to force out some sort of response.

These are just a few examples but the reasoning of it all is because the nature of the question insinuates doubt in the person's alignment. If I ask a player if they are scum, then that is a good indication that I am suspecting them of being scum. At least, that is how most people view the question on the receiving end. The thought process is, "Why would he ask me that?" "I am obviously not going to say yes?" "Is he trying to get me to slip?"

I want insight on the player, that is one of the ways I get it.

[DeathNote]

Blatant sheeping makes you look bad. You don't agree, I can see that. But to me, I see that as scum piggy backing/buddying a town player.

Also, I am tired of players trying to take credit for being on the scum wagons. All this bullshit of people claiming they wouldn't push three of there buddies is crap.

zekrom25 (10) -

Ythan, DeathNote,

zekrom25, Malakittens,

Green Crayons,

Yates, Elyse,

Marquis, tman2nd, Cabd
Malakittens (9) - Untrod Tripod, tman2nd,

Ythan, DeathNote, Elyse,

Yates

, pisskop, Porochaz,

Green Crayons

Kagami (6) -

DeathNote

,

Elyse

, Marquis,

Ythan,

pirate mollie, Nachomamma8

Look at all these people who are on multiple scum wagons. Take a cookie. Don't remind me again because I don't care.

[DeathNote]

Bulba is trying to paint my inquiry as a mason fish while it was in fact calling out what I had perceived as a fake claim. And not acting on that information is what would have been detrimental to Town, imo. What a joke.

Looked like you were prepping a counter claim to me.

[tman2nd]

Blatant sheeping makes you look bad. You don't agree, I can see that. But to me, I see that as scum piggy backing/buddying a town player.

Also, I am tired of players trying to take credit for being on the scum wagons. All this bullshit of people claiming they wouldn't push three of there buddies is crap.

zekrom25 (10) -

Ythan, DeathNote,

zekrom25, Malakittens,

Green Crayons,

Yates, Elyse,

Marquis, tman2nd, Cabd
Malakittens (9) - Untrod Tripod, tman2nd,

Ythan, DeathNote, Elyse,

Yates

, pisskop, Porochaz,

Green Crayons

Kagami (6) -

DeathNote

,

Elyse

, Marquis,

Ythan,

pirate mollie, Nachomamma8

Look at all these people who are on multiple scum wagons. Take a cookie. Don't remind me again because I don't care.

Well, there's a difference between being on a wagon and pushing it. I can see what you're saying, but it's important to look at more than just the vote counts.

[tman2nd]

Bulba is trying to paint my inquiry as a mason fish while it was in fact calling out what I had perceived as a fake claim. And not acting on that information is what would have been detrimental to Town, imo. What a joke.

Looked like you were prepping a counter claim to me.

What? What is this post supposed to mean?

[Marquis]

I suppose you could use meta in order to more accurately attempt to see why they'd say that.

People ignoring questions in any way is already generally scummy- I'd prefer not to use the word scumtell itself, because there are occasionally valid reasons for not answering a simple question liek that in time.

But the thing is, it just drags more superficial analysis into the game. Why waste time blindly relying on or trying to divine the alignment-related motivation of someone saying something as simply snarky as "no u", when you can look at other things like the broad ISO and wagons instead? Sure, you could use the question in RVS to try and spark a quick back-and-forth, and I don't even know why I'm entertaining the question this much, but how does it help in terms of actually being reliable at all?

Why did I even type that actually

PEDIT: If me sheeping mollie onto scum won't convince you, fine. But I was one of the few people on Day 1 who was openly/loudly against the "Zekrom is totally a vig so we're totally going to let him try and shoot someone tonight because scum totally won't fuck with the plan we're laying out in plain sight for them to see!!" I actually wanted to lynch Zekrom, and came to that scumread on my own. Same for the EPM/notsci slot after it disintegrated into scum-cautiousness. At this point, I'm content to call it sheeping, but if you read back in my ISO I've actually been at 2/3 of those on my own (well, not Mala because I got paranoid at the end).

About your VC quote:

I'm reading GC and Yates as town.

Elyse and Ythan certainly aren't my biggest scumreads.

I don't get why I'm not bolded which also kind of makes me confused as to the point you're trying to make.

Also, why is your own name bolded? If this is what you said and an argument that the bolded players aren't town for lynching scum, I'm even more confused as to why you're discrediting your own placement on these scum lynches?...

As for the slot we're lynching today (pisskop/Nacho), both generally appeared much later on the wagons than others did. pisskop softdefended Zekrom, Mala and EPM, and Nacho was pushing on Kagami pretty hard apparently, but not with any sort of vote iirc until he quickhammered.

Preview-reading this and I'm still kind of confused as to your point.

PEDIT2: Jesus fucking croissants. tman and Nacho are the last two scum. Hammer Nacho

now

.

[DeathNote]

He is trying to state that he knew Marq wasn't a mason but that whole interaction that day phase just came off as him preparing to counter claim Mason if Marq was going to stick to her trololol fake claim.

It was honestly why I wanted to lynch Yates the next day cause I figured he would have died.

[Marquis]

He was going to say I wasn't Mason because Poro had stated multiple times that he was okay with my lynch, and there were quotes to prove it.

You don't need a counterclaim to disprove the second half of a Mason claim ffs vote nacho

[DeathNote]

Ok first off... Me asking a simple question is NOT the basis of my entire read on one person. Like wtf?
Secondly, what I got out of that was the question isn't worth asking. Why? Ythan has all the possiblity in the world of being scum. He is being pressured as being scum but more then just GC now. If anything, I need to sort my read on him. Am I solely using that response to determine his alignment? No but that doesn't mean it won't help.

And I didn't bold your name cause you weren't on the Mala wagon so I didn't see your name multiple times.

You want credit for pushing Zeek really early, fine. I don't care. But you are the one who stated you sheeped Mollie and I know you did. You were mindless most of the game and as soon as this argument is over, I wouldn't be surprised to see you turn back into being mindless........

Bleh....

I didn't bold pisskop/Nacho cause two separate players. Lynch Nacho, I don't care. I will even hammer after Ythan comes back and blows off my reasoning in some way.

[DeathNote]

He was going to say I wasn't Mason because Poro had stated multiple times that he was okay with my lynch, and there were quotes to prove it.

You don't need a counterclaim to disprove the second half of a Mason claim ffs vote nacho

I mean, I know that was his intention now but at the time, I read his interaction as intention to counter claim.

[Marquis]

Considering the fact that the scumteam hasn't been able to find/kill the mason yet, you really didn't have to make it obvious at this point in time.

Yes, I sheeped Mollie on other things. No, it wasn't without understanding the logic she presented as reasoning; for example her saying that sthar was scum based on meta tells resonated with me as a genuine town-on-scum read, but to add onto that, the earlier discussion about Zekrom and his "vig" had made me paranoid regarding roleblockers, which was another reason I didn't want to risk not lynching him.

But I pushed for a Zekrom lynch and against the let-Zekrom-vig plan hard. I stated multiple times iirc that I had a scumread on EPM/notsci. No, my play hasn't been perfect, but I'm not willing to let you completely negate the contributions I made in those areas, and I'm certainly not letting you go so far as to plant an idea sounding like I'm not town, but

scum

because I helped find and lynch scum.

Again, you calling my play scum comes from you not liking how I typically post, and not because of what I've actually managed to achieve. So I'm asking you to please get over it, unvote me, and help lynch actual scum.

[DeathNote]

I haven't complained about your posting style since day 2 or 3. If anything, you dropped in the amount of posts since then. We lynched Zek day 2 and even though he turned out to be scum, I wouldn't have done anything different. Letting him live day 1 was the right move.

Going to bed.

[Ythan]

I don't ever expect people to flat out say, "Yes I am scum." But how people respond to the question, "Are you scum?" can often be very revealing.

Explain how.

Well, if I've logged on after a bad day, I might say "I am the Mafia Bulletproof Mason Lover" in an attempt to entertain myself as people trip all over it as a scumslip of some sort.

On the other hand, if my day has been perfectly pleasant, I might say "Lana Del Rey" because I can.

DeathNote, you might want to be able to read into how people answer it, but the only thing "Are you scum?" reveals is just how fucking awesome I think Lana Del Rey's latest single is. Trying to extract a scumtell from that is like saying I'm scum for sheeping a strong town read onto multiple scum lynches!...

There's a reason I asked DeathNote this question Marquis.

[Ythan]

And apparently you were perfectly aware of that!

[Ythan]

Sure but does it matter? It is all opinionated anyways.
If a player is snarky about the comment, usually replying in wit or pushing the question back, then I consider that a town tell.
If a player ignores the question, I consider that a scum tell.
If a player gets flustered by the question, then I consider that a scum tell.
If a player refuses the question, I consider that a null tell which means I will follow up with different questions to force out some sort of response.

These are just a few examples but the reasoning of it all is because the nature of the question insinuates doubt in the person's alignment. If I ask a player if they are scum, then that is a good indication that I am suspecting them of being scum. At least, that is how most people view the question on the receiving end. The thought process is, "Why would he ask me that?" "I am obviously not going to say yes?" "Is he trying to get me to slip?"

I want insight on the player, that is one of the ways I get it.

Good job DN you did exactly what I requested of you and I appreciate your candor.

[Yates]

I mean, I know that was his intention now but at the time, I read his interaction as intention to counter claim.

That's my point, though, DN. Bulba wasn't even in the game during that conversation. He had the luxury of replacing in after all the dust had settled and is still acting like he perceived that as a mason fish. Between that and his stated reason for obv-Towning Marquis while ignoring the fact I did the same thing? Yeah. It's not adding up. It looks like someone trying to fabricate reads when logic is applied in such an inconsistent manner. He came in, saw most everyone is obv-Towning Marquis, then decided to also obv-Town Marquis. Town read for the "wrong reason?" That pings hard.

[Yates]

Look at all these people who are on multiple scum wagons. Take a cookie.

Couple of comments on this:

1. If you are referring to me? I agree with you - mostly. However, I'm referring to the post counts in an effort to point out a logical inconsistency in Bulba's arguments. I'm not using the count to build a case on anyone.

2. That said - unless one of you, Elyse, or Ythan are scum? Take a look at how much bussing has been done by this scum team. Zek. That's it. And Zek sealed his own fate Day 1 so Mala p-much HAD to bus. Now, I bring this up not because of the VC per se but as evidence supporting the prevailing theory that the scum team is likely comprised of less experienced scum. That's really a note more for myself but one of those things that really stood out to me during a reread because I wasn't buying the "noob-scum" theory or understanding where it was even coming from. I'm reconsidering my position on this.

[Yates]

It's 9:02 AM my time. I'll give Nacho until lunch [~3 hours] to claim. 14 hours from intent is more than enough time to come up with a claim.

[Ythan]

14 hours from intent is more than enough time to come up with a claim.

Is that what you're waiting for?

[Yates]

Yeah. I like to give people time to claim.

VOTE: Nacho