Game of Thrones

[Seacore]

I said it a little in the book thread without realising it had been discussed at more length here. Basically I'll just state that I agree with the majority. The idea that in the book we're seeing a corruption of the events because they're from Jaime's POV had me pause for a moment, but we've never had any reason to believe that we can't believe direct dialogue from the books. show!Cersei should have made it clear she was complaining about the location, not just refusing in totality. Again, this wouldn't have made it acceptable by today's standards, but it wouldn't have made Jaime stray from his path of redemption as much.

And the idea that we can't have a complaint about a single scene when all the rest was acceptable is ludicrous. Gee, that fictional dictator kept the streets sparkling clean and the buses running on time. I mean, he killed a million innocent people, but I'm so sick of people picking one thing to complain about.

[esuriospiritus]

So Pie alerted to me to the *ahem*

discussion

going on in this thread... and I found these via /r/gameofthrones and thought some here might appreciate the additional viewpoints on the sept scene, especially since one comes from GRRM himself. Apologies if they've already been linked and I missed it.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/367116.html ... #t19030284. the relevant text:

Spoiler: GRRM talks about the difference between the book and show in the sept scene

Since a lot of people have been emailing me about this, however, I will reply... but please, take any further discussion of the show to one of the myriad on-line forums devoted to that. I do not want long detailed dissections and debates about the TV series here on my blog.

As for your question... I think the "butterfly effect" that I have spoken of so often was at work here. In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey's death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.

The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other's company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that's just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.

Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime's POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don't know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.

If the show had retained some of Cersei's dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression -- but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.

That's really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing... but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.

and another link going over the differences between book and show for that scene.

I'm not going to touch the director's comments or give my own thoughts because frankly I really don't want to get that level of involved (and I don't expect to show up again for at least another few months anyway), but since I was already here spying on you guys ( ) I thought some might appreciate the drive-by link dump.

[xRECKONERx]

Wow, thanks for the link on GRRM's viewpoint.

[quadz08]

http://imgur.com/KgStI3W

[xRECKONERx]

http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/pedro-pa ... rview.html

oh dear lord

For any of your upcoming nude scenes, do you show it all? Because we've been asking for more male nudity on the show.


Nobody asked me to hide anything. I was all in. When does Game of Thrones ever fail you in terms of like not going all the way with something? They give you candy from both sides. I'd insist upon it!

if i had ovaries they'd be going nuts right now

[AniX]

http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/pedro-pa ... rview.html

oh dear lord

For any of your upcoming nude scenes, do you show it all? Because we've been asking for more male nudity on the show.


Nobody asked me to hide anything. I was all in. When does Game of Thrones ever fail you in terms of like not going all the way with something? They give you candy from both sides. I'd insist upon it!

if i had ovaries they'd be going nuts right now

Man, call me when we get to see some Kingslayer cock. That's the only cock worth getting pumped for.

[Korts]

Fuck the Kingslayer, I want to see what the Imp is working with.

[absta101]

Holy shit, wtf are you guys talking about. If you want to see cocks go watch some hardcore porn? I swear that's easier.

[Tierce]

For my own sake of mind, I'm going to assume you cannot see the joke. Because I really hope you're not making a fuss about male nudity in this show, absta. Did the idea of seeing naked women bother you too?

[Venmar]

Not me, i enjoy the brothel scenes

[xRECKONERx]

Holy shit, wtf are you guys talking about. If you want to see cocks go watch some hardcore porn? I swear that's easier.

[Venmar]

(better quality, yw)

[absta101]

For my own sake of mind, I'm going to assume you cannot see the joke. Because I really hope you're not making a fuss about male nudity in this show, absta. Did the idea of seeing naked women bother you too?

All i'm saying is that, if you're watching game of thrones for the nudity, you're doing it wrong. If it was a joke then fine, my bad for missing that.

Also, being bothered by something is all subconscious i.e. you don't chose what you're bothered by. So it doesn't make you a better person if you aren't bothered by the nudity. Personally i'm not bothered by any of the nudity.

[Tierce]

For my own sake of mind, I'm going to assume you cannot see the joke. Because I really hope you're not making a fuss about male nudity in this show, absta. Did the idea of seeing naked women bother you too?

All i'm saying is that, if you're watching game of thrones for the nudity, you're doing it wrong. If it was a joke then fine, my bad for missing that.

Also, being bothered by something is all subconscious i.e. you don't chose what you're bothered by. So it doesn't make you a better person if you aren't bothered by the nudity. Personally i'm not bothered by any of the nudity.

No, you don't choose what you're bothered by, and I was not judging you by whether you are bothered by nudity in general. That was not what I was angling at, carry on.

If people want to watch GoT for the nudity, they are doing it right; it's their own business and it's not up to anyone else to judge them. There's a lot more plot in it than in porn, so at least that's more entertaining.

[Venmar]

Meh, a lot of the people (if not all) I know at my school who watch game of thrones, always keep saying "OMG GAME OF THRONES IS JUST PORN, SO MUCH TITIES, SO MUCH SEX, SO MUCH NUDITY, OMGOMGOMGOMG AWESUUUUUUUUUUUM", and every time they say that I feel like smashing rusty pipe across their face.

[absta101]

Meh, a lot of the people (if not all) I know at my school who watch game of thrones, always keep saying "OMG GAME OF THRONES IS JUST PORN, SO MUCH TITIES, SO MUCH SEX, SO MUCH NUDITY, OMGOMGOMGOMG AWESUUUUUUUUUUUM", and every time they say that I feel like smashing rusty pipe across their face.

This guy gets it.

[quadz08]

It boils down to "I like this show, but also there are some exciting sex-things coming up which I am interested in"

[Sudo_Nym]

To be fair, much of HBO's business plan is marketing softcore porn with a plot. Half the time I wonder if this whole GoT thing was created just as an excuse to see Emilia Clarke naked.

[Zachrulez]

It's frustrating that I know about the whole rape scene vs book scene without actually watching the episode.

From reading the link provided earlier in this page of discussion though, it seems like the sequence of events leading up to the scene are also in a different order than in the book which leads to the characters having different mindsets than in the book.

It seems problematic that the director wants to defend the scene as being true to the book and not rape when it's not true to the book and is rape. Just gives me the impression that the scene was poorly written/executed.

[Xalxe]

(better quality, yw)

What scene is this from?

Also yeah that scene...not my favorite at all. But Oberyn, hells yes. I like him way more than Book!Oberyn.

(still hate new Daario ew)

[quadz08]

That image is when Tyrion interrupts Oberyn and Ellaria in the brothel. Oberyn asks them if they'd like to join, I believe.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

(still hate new Daario ew)

[Venmar]

I like him way more than the old one personally.

[xRECKONERx]

For my own sake of mind, I'm going to assume you cannot see the joke. Because I really hope you're not making a fuss about male nudity in this show, absta. Did the idea of seeing naked women bother you too?

All i'm saying is that, if you're watching game of thrones for the nudity, you're doing it wrong. If it was a joke then fine, my bad for missing that.

Also, being bothered by something is all subconscious i.e. you don't chose what you're bothered by. So it doesn't make you a better person if you aren't bothered by the nudity. Personally i'm not bothered by any of the nudity.

People can watch it for the nudity.

I'm more talking about the fact that we get tits and vag and female nudity every goddamn episode and the amount of male nudity is, I think, 2-3 times the entire show for a brief moment? It's very unbalanced. If they're going to toss in some eye candy for the straight fellas and lady lovers, throw in some eye candy for the gays and girls as well!

[Venmar]

Well, generally, even for HBO, female nudity is viewed as more okay (acceptable, maybe?) than male nudity, for some reason I think. Though I wouldn't complain if I got to see some Jaime cock.