Mini 1568: Another Awesome Alliteration Adventure (over)

[Cho]

That's twice you've popped back up as soon as someone says your name.

Assuming this was addressed to me, and not T S O, I don't think this applies to me. Probably because being the largest wagon at the moment, my name is coming up all the time anyway. It's gotten to a point where just looking for posts with my name in them when I'm in a rush leads me to glancing at most of the posts anyway.

[The Betting Pool]

That's twice you've popped back up as soon as someone says your name.

Assuming this was addressed to me, and not T S O, I don't think this applies to me. Probably because being the largest wagon at the moment, my name is coming up all the time anyway. It's gotten to a point where just looking for posts with my name in them when I'm in a rush leads me to glancing at most of the posts anyway.

omg... you have to read posts in the game? how dare we!?

[Cho]

[Egg]

Cho, I'm talking about Post 144 coming up after TSO called out your lurking and the burst of posting after 177.

[Cho]

Oh, I'm sorry, that was just me being struck speechless by your shameless misrepresentation.

Preview edit:

Egg

, I was lurking prior to 144. We've already discussed this.

My burst in posting now is because I have the time to do so, as opposed to my inactivity prior to 177.

[MTD]

Catching up tonight; the justification that you don't like me "flaming" and so you ...won't lynch scum is actively playing against your win condition.

C'mon this is stupid. I am scumreading neither you nor Cho (as I said for both).
I also stated that I don't agree with your "case" on Cho.
The only thing that I said me not liking you flaming was a reason for was not discussing that at length.
Way to misrep.

[Cho]

I was brought up to speak when spoken to, except for when clubbing or hide-and-seek is involved.

[Riptide]

MTD - Is there something specific about Cho that doesn't make you want to lynch her? Or is it just gut?

Also, working on some responses with HS, but he's been a little inactive.

- Dice

[MTD]

MTD - Is there something specific about Cho that doesn't make you want to lynch her? Or is it just gut?

Her reaction to being pushed seemed genuine to me, but yeah, much of it is gut and the absence of a reason why I

would

want to lynch her.

[Jargonaut]

On a related note:

Jargonaut

, why is

your

vote still on T S O? You haven't mentioned him

I don't particularly like your posts either, looking at your ISO.

You had one important point about T S O's meta. Then quite a while back in post 87, you actually said

"I'm retracting the meta part of my argument."

But thn you immediately follow that up with

"That said, you're still my biggest suspect, so I'm keeping my vote on you."

It looks scummy to me in that most of your argument for T S O being scum stemmed from your meta read, but in that post it feels like you're scrambling for a reason to stay on the wagon.

You haven't mentioned or addressed T S O since.

158 is asking for Elyse to say what stands out about Riptide.

172 just feels awkward and much too detached.

What I'm getting here is a lot of evenly-spaced posts to look active, yet simultaneously remaining very detached from the main conversation regarding my wagon and from the game in general. In fact, those last two posts are just focused on whatever's going on between Elyse and Riptide. Sure, you're occasionally instigating conversation between them or from them regarding each other, but what is your actual stance on it?

I never said meta was the biggest part of my argument against TSO. However, seeing as a lot of people have stated that he plays in a similar manner all the time, I'm doubting whether my initial read was very good.

So actually, you're right in that my vote on TSO doesn't make a lot of sense anymore.
UNVOTE:

Oh, and I asked Elyse that question because she's my strongest town read at the moment, and I honestly cannot read hydras at all yet.

I'll try to find some more time tonight/tomorrow to read ISOs, because I've been checking from my phone for the most part and I think I've missed a lot.

[Riptide]

MTD - Is there something specific about Cho that doesn't make you want to lynch her? Or is it just gut?

Her reaction to being pushed seemed genuine to me, but yeah, much of it is gut and the absence of a reason why I

would

want to lynch her.

Does it not bother you that she basically contradicted herself on her TSO read? Also, doesn't it bother you that she tried to pass lurking off as town?

[Riptide]

- Dice

[MTD]

Does it not bother you that she basically contradicted herself on her TSO read?

How so? Not seeing it.

Also, doesn't it bother you that she tried to pass lurking off as town?

Not really seeing this either. She showed a possible town motivation for it, didn't say that it was a towny thing to do.
Generally speaking, lurking is null.

[T S O]

Basically Cho exhibited strong town reads. She used the word 'unlynchable' as strong town reads shouldn't be lynched. It is, I admit, a little odd to include herself within they 'unlynchable' pile, but is it really that different to putting yourself at the very top of a T/S list?

Yes, it is, and if you want to continue the comparison you would then suddenly not appear on the T/S list.

A: She was right, RVS was over. Don't know what you're getting at.

B: Oh come on, everyone uses strong language early game. I didn't really want to lynch egg when I voted him, I just scum read him mildly. The same with cho making out her townreads as stronger than they really were

C: see B

This is such a terrible way of justifying Cho's actions. I don't know why you're wasting your time with this guff other than some ridiculous innate need to go against my opinions.

Maybe RVS was over; I'm not scumreading her for believing it, but it shows that she's already following Elyse blindly.

I've said before, though, that my main problem isn't even the term of Unlynchable. It's the backtracking after, the regressing of the reads in that section and regression of criteria needed to leave them, to be wordy.

This is a great example of you not actually reading my posts, but skimming and seeing what you think you should see.

I retract my statement that this point was OMGUS. In fact, cho was OMGUSing. However, that is a reasonable town tell, not a scum tell. Scum know not to OMGUS like that.

OMGUS. Is. Not. A. Town. Tell. This is a really, really bad meta which is starting to spread around the site and I hate it so much. OMGUS is the easiest thing for scum to do under pressure, as well as the most likely. OMGUS is a definite scumtell. There's a strong difference between Town OMGUS and Scum. Hers is undoubtedly scum; her reasoning is she doesn't like me/I'm scumreading her. Not Town, no no, bad Burning_Earth.

Lurking is null and you know it.

Lurking after sustained pressure, however, is scummy as it gets.

T S O is a

null

leaning

I-hope-you-are-scum

read for me.

My vote is still on him because I don't like unnecessarily mean people.

So you don't have any real reason for voting me, in other words.

I was lurking out the pressure like a true townfuck.

No, you weren't.

It's also depressing to try and fight off a lynch when certain people are determined to use every new post you make as a way to further their confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias implies I'm scum. Apparently you're not calling me scum. Which is it?

I am aware T S O posted a "case" that apparently proves that I am scum.

I'm not responding because anything I say will just give him more "ammunition".

Alternatively, to me, you can't respond because it's all true, and then you act like it's unbelievable I'm still calling you scum.

Didn't like Cho's most recent post but I don't know if it's necessarily scummy.

I didn't like it either, but it's not particularly scummy.

It doesn't alleviate my read, though.

@TSO: You're dumb, but almost certainly town.

That's great and all, I guess.

B_E testing the mod's tolerance for slightly sub-TSO behavior I see.

Oh you.

Where did I say that I won't lynch scum? I like my vote on you because not only is trying to read you...

polarizing

... but I don't particularly like your behavior either.

You can't read me and you don't like my behaviour, so you're voting me.

How many explanations have you given for your vote on me now? You can't read me, you don't like my behaviour, I'm trying to run the game, more ...it's remarkable.

You may be a null read for me now, but I'm ok with my vote because you still could be overaggressive Scum, according to what people have said about your playstyle.

Who are these people, Cho?

I like to think I can deal with regular tunneling.

Well, your lurking suggests you can't.

Lashing out at anyone who tried to tell you that you're wrong- I'm less inclined to accept.

I agree with this. Although I didn't lash out at people for disagreeing with me (I haven't attacked Elyse, I attacked Burning for laziness and rudeness) your voting of me for scumreading you is something I have said I don't accept.

It's not like everything Scum say is textbook-scummy.

And I haven't picked on everything you've said, so this is true, but you have told me and the game a whole load of scummy stuff and your explanations don't add up whatsoever for the majority of them.

And it's not like everything Town does is "by the book". I've been hoping this whole time that your blind aggression comes from Scum for sanity's sake, but with so many people saying you read as Town, I want to be stubborn with my read but I know I need to concede in some way at some point or another. So you're Null for now.

So you're bowing to pressure in not scumreading me, because you stand out by scumreading me, then.

And they say I'm dramatising this case.

Also I'm back to townreading Cho.

Explain how your read transitioned from T -> S -> T to me, Elyse.

Cho's disappearance is pretty bad. It's pretty common for scum to feel pressure and fade into the background until someone else does something scummy. Her admission of this doesn't make it a town thing to do by the way.

THANK YOU, EGG.

[Riptide]

a)

I really want to bring myself to scumread him

i)

but I reluctantly think he is town for the blind aggression

1)

and yet I am also leaning toward scumreading him because I know he can be hyperaggressive to form a façade of towniness when he is scum.

a)

T S O is a

null

leaning

I-hope-you-are-scum

read for me.

b)

My vote is still on him because I don't like unnecessarily mean people.

4)

I was lurking out the pressure like a true townfuck.

@MTD

[T S O]

Egg

, I was lurking prior to 144. We've already discussed this.

My burst in posting now is because I have the time to do so, as opposed to my inactivity prior to 177.

BUT BUT

YOU LITERALLY JUST SAID YOU WERE LURKING TO REMOVE PRESSURE

INACTIVITY WAS NEVER MENTIONED ONCE

Catching up tonight; the justification that you don't like me "flaming" and so you ...won't lynch scum is actively playing against your win condition.

C'mon this is stupid. I am scumreading neither you nor Cho (as I said for both).
I also stated that I don't agree with your "case" on Cho.
The only thing that I said me not liking you flaming was a reason for was not discussing that at length.
Way to misrep.

The feel I got, and still get, was like Burning_Earth:

"Hmm, I don't really want to analyze and potentially change my stance, will I be open to this case? Naaah."

It's not particularly scummy to do that, but it is a bit irritating for me.

I was brought up to speak when spoken to, except for when clubbing or hide-and-seek is involved.

What are you using this as an excuse for again?

Does it not bother you that she basically contradicted herself on her TSO read? Also, doesn't it bother you that she tried to pass lurking off as town?

You can be Town just for this. I don't even care.

Does it not bother you that she basically contradicted herself on her TSO read?

How so? Not seeing it.

I've tried to be sarcastic to this remark but even my broad and nuanced sarcasm cannot fluently express just how unbelievable I find it you don't see this.

Also, doesn't it bother you that she tried to pass lurking off as town?

Not really seeing this either. She showed a possible town motivation for it, didn't say that it was a towny thing to do.
Generally speaking, lurking is null.

I challenge you to find me a viable action which does not have a potential town motivation. Go on.

[T S O]

Two things before I go:

1) The argument that I can't specifically find scum motivation in an action, therefore it is not scummy, is full of holes. Firstly, not all scum posts have scum motivation: hell, often they can have Town motivations, in various situations. Secondly, though when you can't find any Town motivation but you can't find Scum motivation either, you don't just drop it. Town motivation should be far clearer than Scum motivation; lack of the former should be quite worrying, regardless of the presence of the latter.

2) I am not aggressive as either alignment; I am somewhat aggressive in Newbies as Scum and as Town. That's it. If someone is calling me scum for aggression, show me my meta. I know it better than you, but it's possible I'm wrong.

[MTD]

@TSO: I don't really know what you are getting at...
All I said was that Cho showed a possible town motivation.
And, unrelated to that, in general, lurking is null.

[T S O]

But it's not lurking, it's lurking under pressure!

[MTD]

a)

I really want to bring myself to scumread him

i)

but I reluctantly think he is town for the blind aggression

1)

and yet I am also leaning toward scumreading him because I know he can be hyperaggressive to form a façade of towniness when he is scum.

a)

T S O is a

null

leaning

I-hope-you-are-scum

read for me.

b)

My vote is still on him because I don't like unnecessarily mean people.

4)

I was lurking out the pressure like a true townfuck.

@MTD

->null read, as it was later
->context! Direct reply to

she's lurking out the pressure like a true scumfuck.

So T S O said: "Scum motivation!", she said "Town motivation!"

[Riptide]

a)

I really want to bring myself to scumread him

i)

but I reluctantly think he is town for the blind aggression

1)

and yet I am also leaning toward scumreading him because I know he can be hyperaggressive to form a façade of towniness when he is scum.

a)

T S O is a

null

leaning

I-hope-you-are-scum

read for me.

b)

My vote is still on him because I don't like unnecessarily mean people.

4)

I was lurking out the pressure like a true townfuck.

@MTD

->null read, as it was later
->context! Direct reply to

she's lurking out the pressure like a true scumfuck.

So T S O said: "Scum motivation!", she said "Town motivation!"

She said that he was town for blind aggression. She also said he leans scum because of his aggression. Either this is a contradiction or fence sitting disguised in wording.

Still. Lurking is not town. Ever. (Unless you get in PRs, which is different, and I'm not getting in to)

[MTD]

But it's not lurking, it's lurking under pressure!

Fair enough, but that's still lurking...
Srsly, though, I think she made it quite clear why she would do that as town, and I have to say that is something I can buy into, given the playstate at that point, although it is not something I would do and she didn't really help herself by it.

@Cho: mind telling us whose alt you are? If you already did I missed that.

[MTD]

She said that he was town for blind aggression. She also said he leans scum because of his aggression. Either this is a contradiction or fence sitting disguised in wording.

What? don't you ever have arguments for scum and for town on a person?

Still. Lurking is not town. Ever. (Unless you get in PRs, which is different, and I'm not getting in to)

Already said that, lurking is null.
Arguably lurking under pressure, as TSO said, may in general be more probably scum, not sure about that though.

[MTD]

Note that because of aforementioned thought, I am not voting caled because I think she necessarily is scum, but because I hate not having a chance to read people.

[Egg]

Cho, I'm not even talking about the lurking here. That's another issue entirely. It's the timing of your return.

Riptide, I agree. Cho's TSO read is probably my biggest issue with her.

Preview edit: MTD, the lurking was intentional and strategical to relieve pressure though. And admittedly too.