NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Save The Dragons]

oh but I don't know if I'm ready. my body's saying yes, but my heart is saying yes...

Wait a minute.

Vote: LML

[chamber]

Incidentally, I am SUPER DUPER AMUSED that people are crying foul at MafiaSSK's "big wagons good" theory, when

at the time he referred to my wagon as "almighty" he jumped AWAY from it, thereby creating a greater spread of votes.

Like, this wagon is legit based on nothing SSK did to actually hurt the game, and just on his theory crafting.

It's the beginning of the game, voting based on "theory crafting" is superior to randomly. We will gain more insight into the game with long bandwagons, determined very arbitrarily for the most part, and the quality of which will shape the outcome of the rest of the game.

This is a scum post.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Go fly a kite chamber, we're trying to catch scum here.

[undo]

This is a scum post.

Interesting. What exactly strikes you as scummy in ABR's post, chamber?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Chamber why don't you have a seat on this couch right here.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Scum team: Seol/ABR/Green Crayons/DrippingGoofball/Porochaz

[Albert B. Rampage]

No. No. No. NO.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I need both of you to trust me. Right now, okay? Please just work with me here, and I promise I will explain everything later, okay?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Everything I did....I did it for the family....

[Glork]

Everything I did....I did it for the family....

That sounds like something a member of the <InsertItalianName> Mafia Family would say.

[MafiaSSK]

oh but I don't know if I'm ready. my body's saying yes, but my heart is saying yes...

Wait a minute.

Vote: LML

Wait. Why? Do you think your mind could chime in here?

[Save The Dragons]

(At least) one of this set { petroleumjelly, Seol, Porochaz, Green Crayons }
is highly likely to be opportunistic mafia. You can toss

LoudMouthLee

in there for the FOS.

[Save The Dragons]

I also kind of want to know how he feels about my rational for chasing after undo.

[Porochaz]

Hi all,

My granny died today.

Am going to try and stay in the game, as A. I want to and B. it would suck massively if I wasn't since I looked to start it. But at the same time, I am going to play it by ear.

I hope thats ok and I hope not to disrupt things to much.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty:

You're quoting something I wrote that directly addresses how you dismissed the MafiaSSK wagon. I'm not sure what more you want, when you're responding to a statement that is exactly what you're asking for.

It's because I think your distinction between the two reasonings is extremely thin. One draws suspicion and the other doesn't, makes me feel you're not being very genuine.

Happy birthday sotty =)

Thank you!

Scum team: Seol/ABR/Green Crayons/DrippingGoofball/Porochaz

Yes, no, probably, naaah, not feeling it.

Sorry to hear that Porochaz

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sotty thoughts on LML and petroleumjelly?

[Green Crayons]

Porochaz, sorry for your loss.

-----

@Sotty:

@Sotty:

You're quoting something I wrote that directly addresses how you dismissed the MafiaSSK wagon. I'm not sure what more you want, when you're responding to a statement that is exactly what you're asking for.

It's because I think your distinction between the two reasonings is extremely thin. One draws suspicion and the other doesn't, makes me feel you're not being very genuine.

I thought both of your responses were worthy of attention. (Post 68.) MafiaSSK made me rethink that position. (Post 69 and Post 95.) Which, upon rumination, led to my difference in opinion about the two different reactions.

Two players can react to the same event, and the difference in that reaction can signify the difference in town and scum mentality. While I agree there's a broad similarity between your and Vitamin's reactions (that is, you both reacted to the same thing), the actual substance of y'all's reactions are noteworthy.

You disagreed with the reasoning ("Seems like a poor excuse to vote him"). To me, this denotes a town mentality: cautious about bad voting, and critiquing the rationale for a vote.

In contrast, Vitamin slandered the players themselves ("Feels like a bunch of strong players going for an easy target.") To me, this denotes a scum mentality: attacking the players, rather than the rationale for their votes, to get the attention on the who instead of the why. This leads to identity-based suspicion rather than suspicion based on players who pushed bad reasons to lynch people.

[Yosarian2]

Hey. I'm back. Half asleep, but back.

I'm getting some weird vibes off of Undo's posting so far this game. Kind of wishy-washy. Kisses up to everyone in first post, votes DGB "as homage". ? Says MafiaSSK's post #45 " doesn't look right", but then hedges that read, and doesn't vote. Takes off random vote on DGB without voting anyone else. Then later votes SSK.

fos:Undo

Posting and voting pattern so far looks overly cautious.

Oh, and to answer your question, Undo:

Wouldn't that 'balsiness' make VitaminR more probable to be town?

VitimanR's move is only "ballsy" because if SSK or Tigras flip scum eventually, he looks linked to them, and it creates a lot of confusion. My suggestion was that VitimanR's move would be a lot less risky if he already knew SSK's and Tigras's alignment.

[LoudmouthLee]

With two little girls in the house, I do not get to post on the weekends very often. Sorry in advance. Please expect a few responses tomorrow morning, around 8am EST.

[petroleumjelly]

1.)

4.)

VitaminR, who do you think the "weak" players are in this game? And yes, I ask this question with the knowledge that you are unlikely to be making friends with your answer...

I didn't necessarily mean to draw a distinction between good and bad players. Mentally substitute in: 'players who are typically perceived as being strong at theory discussion'. I thought it was striking that you, Seol, and LML were all going after the same person based largely on bandwagon theory in a short period of time. I don't know MafiaSSK's pedigree that well, but it seemed to me like there was a power disparity there that none of you seemed concerned about.

Thank you for your answer. Now please answer who you think the "weak" players are in the game.

You are correct that I am not concerned with whether MafiaSSK is a "weak" player. I am concerned with lynching scum.

2.)

VitaminR, I asked you to decide who you would vote in the first two pages of the game because that was all the information

I

had when I placed my original vote on MafiaSSK. If the best

you

can come up with is:

As for the first two pages, I placed a semi-serious vote on DGB, who I thought was very quick to declare chamber town

... then I fail to see what is wrong with pursuing MafiaSSK's switch to Tigris and subsequent theory assertion.

3.)

Not impressed with Glork.

->

a.)

He has mentioned how interesting Tigris is for him (Post 59 and Post 141), but he failed to ask Tigris a single question.

->

b.)

He has acted like nobody considered that MafiaSSK's act of voting Tigris was not following his own theory advice of sticking with the largest bandwagon (to the point of being "SUPER DUPER AMUSED"). This topic

has

been covered (see, e.g., Post 107) and reflects poorly MafiaSSK if anything, especially since MafiaSSK pretty much has to argue that Tigris did a "legitimately scummy thing" to explain his own switch.

Relatedly, Glork tries to act like the votes and suspicions on MafiaSSK are comprised solely on a disagreement on theory. They are not, though a few of the original pressure votes appear to be theory-based.

->

c.)

I'd like PJ to branch out and actually give scum/town opinions on people not named MafiaSSK. While I'm fine with the asking-questions thing (in part because it's consistent with what I'd expect him to do, and in part because I've behaved similarly this far), I'm anxious for follow-up.

Bluntly, I don't care what you'd like. I have no Town reads. I will pursue potential scum as I see fit.

4.)

But even if you do feel that my very real "artificial suspicions" on CES were bad, I don't see how you can actually think of them as scummy. I am creating these interactions with each of these players. I am giving my opinions. I am creating active discussion within the town that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Generating discussion does not excuse or justify your artificial and inflated suspicions on Cogito Ergo Sum. Still happy with my vote.

Side note: MafiaSSK, please stop quoting entire posts. Only quote what is required.

5.)

@PJ:

Any particular reason why you picked the two players that you did in your Question 3 of Post 107?

Yes.

6.)

Yeah I don't really feel like reading the thread...

This is insulting. If you don't want to read the game, please replace out. There are others who would be happy to take your slot.

7.)

I need both of you to trust me. Right now, okay? Please just work with me here, and I promise I will explain everything later, okay?

FoS: Albert B. Rampage

. May switch my vote soon.

[chamber]

This is insulting. If you don't want to read the game, please replace out. There are others who would be happy to take your slot.

Things are only insulting if you want them to be. There are perfectly harmless ways to interpret what he said. The most likely being that he didn't have the drive to catch up in that moment and intended to focus more on interactions going forward.

FoS: Albert B. Rampage. May switch my vote soon.

Why did you feel the need to telegraph a potential vote change?

[undo]

Hey. I'm back. Half asleep, but back.

I'm getting some weird vibes off of Undo's posting so far this game. Kind of wishy-washy. Kisses up to everyone in first post, votes DGB "as homage". ? Says MafiaSSK's post #45 " doesn't look right", but then hedges that read, and doesn't vote. Takes off random vote on DGB without voting anyone else. Then later votes SSK. fos:Undo Posting and voting pattern so far looks overly cautious.

May I recommend you to get some sleep then? Your acumen seems to be impaired

No, but seriously, you've just made a chronological list of some of my actions in this game. What's actually suspicious about them? The fact that I am excited to be playing this game (shame on you for dismissing my sincere first post as fawning!)? The fact that I don't vote when I don't find anything immediately voteworthy?

Not everyone plays the same way. I for one don't follow my gut. I don't go voting or fosing people without having minimally solid arguments to do it. If you take one action that I find dubious but not necessarily scummy, I'll take note of it for myself. If you keep on acting dubiously, I will have reasons to find you scummy and evidence to justify my read.

I've been asking questions to several players (some of which remain unresponded) to collect material, so to speak -- but until I form anything valid and concrete from that material, I keep my votes to myself.

VitimanR's move is only "ballsy" because if SSK or Tigras flip scum eventually, he looks linked to them, and it creates a lot of confusion. My suggestion was that VitimanR's move would be a lot less risky if he already knew SSK's and Tigras's alignment.

I see what you mean. So considering you think VitR is scum, are you townreading LML, PJ, and Seol?

His votes don't inspire trust.

How so?

This is insulting. If you don't want to read the game, please replace out. There are others who would be happy to take your slot.

Natirasha is a new-school player, that's just what they do. I guess he's going through culture shock here. Amirite Nati? ;D

@chamber: why is ABR scum?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I need both of you to trust me. Right now, okay? Please just work with me here, and I promise I will explain everything later, okay?

This is a quote from breaking bad. When Walter goes No no no NO.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote Petroleumjelly

"May switch my vote soon" is scummy.

[VitaminR]

Thank you for your answer. Now please answer who you think the "weak" players are in the game.

You are correct that I am not concerned with whether MafiaSSK is a "weak" player. I am concerned with lynching scum.

I refrained from doing so for a reason. I gave you the answer that was behind my reaction to the MafiaSSK wagon (strong at theory, with reputations = you, Seol, LML; not so = MafiaSSK, Tigris). I don't see how it's a useful exercise for me to say who I think isn't that good at mafia. (Not that I even really have particular people in mind.)

2.)

VitaminR, I asked you to decide who you would vote in the first two pages of the game because that was all the information

I

had when I placed my original vote on MafiaSSK. If the best

you

can come up with is:

As for the first two pages, I placed a semi-serious vote on DGB, who I thought was very quick to declare chamber town

... then I fail to see what is wrong with pursuing MafiaSSK's switch to Tigris and subsequent theory assertion.

I don't see how it matters whether my vote was any better. I wasn't suspicious of your vote because I thought there were necessarily better votes. I thought the way you came to your vote was

scummy

.