Newbie 1495 (DAY 4) - The One where Everyone got Murdered

[Regfan]

Sorry guys, heading away for 2 days, will have my phone with me though so I'll be able to post a little probably. Making sure to print out everyones ISO's before I go to be able to get through the re-reading and I'll read your interactions case at the same time Mora, I should be close to making a decision when I get back at least.

[Moratorium]

Mora - You're trying too hard.

Why did you lie about your role PM?

[Xayzeck]

I forgot this game existed

Mora - You're trying too hard.

wow what a shit response

[Xayzeck]

@mora on the selfprotect: Funny you brought that up, because when he said he selfprotected, my first thought was that it was a scumslip

only after I posted and it sunk in a bit, I realised that it wasn't a scumslip, and that normal doc could've done that as well

they just weren't aware about it

I checked sample PMs and nope, didn't say anything

It'd be horribly stupid of me to realise this and ignore it, given that he could very well be doc making a newb as hell mistake, and losing us the game

[Malakittens]

Prod dodger until reg is bck

[Moratorium]

Mora - You're trying too hard.

Why did you lie about your role PM?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prod dodge.

[Regfan]

Getting to this in the afternoon, taking some time to mull over a few things.

[Regfan]

Okay, had a decent amount of thinking time, might need a little more but here’s where I’m at right now: I still believe that the roleblocker is more likely to be inside the VT counterclaims in comparison to the doctor counterclaims which means I want to lynch inside the VTS [Xay, Mala] today.

If you’re interested in my reads inside the doctors though I still believe BBT over Mora for the following reasons:

1) I still have a massive issue with Moras hammer on F-16, I can see plenty of scum motivation behind it and I went into it in Post 1557 but he never announced that his vote on F-16 was an L-1 vote which he has done every single other time he has put someone to L-1 throughout the entire game so his excuse is that he didn't recognise that Xays vote was on F-16 he should have announced it here which he didn't. Given that he's someone that scumhunts via VCA and keeps a track of where everyones vote is throughout the entire game I find it hard to believe that he'd make a mistake like that as town.

2) I find his line of attack and reasoning behind pushing BBT today to very much a "throw whatever crap I can and see what sticks" one, his early day play here makes so much sense as mafia that's it not even funny. If he's mafia he'd have known that Mala/Xay have claimed VT (One would be his partner) therefore he would know with absolute certainty that his counterclaim would be BBT so his ruling out of only the Mala-Xay team in Post 1190 so he could state that BBT is mafia regardless looks like a pre-set up attempt to push his counterclaim. I still really dislike his "BBT scumslipped via confirming herself" argument that he's suggested when it's blatantly obvious that BBT was going to be CCing him therefore making all of Moras listed scum teams irrelevant to BBT. I also dislike the sheer amount of appeal to emotion that he's using (And I know in most cases it's a null tell), it feels incredibly contrived and doesn't make sense given his play and actions throughout the game; would think if he's town he'd easily be able to understand why I'm having issues town reading him right now.

3) I've had a doctor read on BBT the entire time I've been in the game, it's possible it's a case of me re-reading or him setting up a claim way in advance but tomorrow when I get the energy I'll go back and link a lot of posts that really gave me that impression. From memory one of the largest was the reaction towards MM's cop claim and his read on him, that sort of insistence that he was certain he was town actually pointed towards him being confident enough saying that due to him being doc and thus knowing he's in the setup, another was his reaction with the whole BP discussion.

If you want my reads inside the blue claims that'll have to wait until tomorrow, I want to give Moras case on Xay-BBT a little more reading and thought time because right now I'm working towards what I think are two rather plausible scum-teams and need to think which makes more sense.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we please lynch Mora now. We have confirmed scum, I'm not sure why we should risk losing the game taking a chance on one of the two VT claims, when we have confirmed scum. That doesn't make sense to me. I would much rather lynch somebody who allows us to move into the final day and also gain the additional information from the final NK.

[Regfan]

Can we please lynch Mora now. We have confirmed scum

Because he's not confirmed scum from my point of view, just more likely scum. Why should I be reading him as "confirmed"?

[Moratorium]

Can we please lynch Mora now. We have confirmed scum, I'm not sure why we should risk losing the game taking a chance on one of the two VT claims, when we have confirmed scum. That doesn't make sense to me. I would much rather lynch somebody who allows us to move into the final day and also gain the additional information from the final NK.

This is desperation for just one misvote. Just need one.

Regfan, out of curiosity, do you think objectively that your view of me would be any different had I not hammered FFF yesterday? I'm reading your thoughts on the doctor claims, and it really appears to be completely one-sided, so I'm just wondering how much effort you'd like me to put into defending myself. When I'm told, by the one clear, that the hours of effort it took me to put together that links interaction post and doing a full re-read and thinking things through amount to "throw whatever crap I can and see what sticks", or when I read your opinion and see statements like:

would think if he's town he'd easily be able to understand why I'm having issues town reading him right now.

...which is basically just hedging yourself against the post-game blame, I stop caring about this game. You read as someone who didn't want to have to expend any effort examining statements made that don't fit into your pre-packaged (and wrong) view of the game. I'm done trying to convince you of it.

If you are indeed actually going to follow through on voting a VT, BBT has pegged Mala all game, and I'm pegging Xayzeck now. Make your play.

vote: Xayzeck

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we please lynch Mora now. We have confirmed scum

Because he's not confirmed scum from my point of view, just more likely scum. Why should I be reading him as "confirmed"?

Apologies, was speaking more from a personal point of view and expecting everyone to understand where I am coming from.

I have made all the points I feel need making ( I also get the feeling that everyone else has ) a decision needs to be made on how we proceed now.

If you are indeed actually going to follow through on voting a VT, BBT has pegged Mala all game, and I'm pegging Xayzeck now. Make your play.

vote: Xayzeck

Wow, you would have to be 100% sure that Mala was town to make this vote, if you were the doc. Because you're scum, it's of no concern to you because you know two townies won't jump on that vote.

Poor attempt at AtE as well I might add.

I ask again. Can we lynch Mora now?

[Regfan]

Regfan, out of curiosity, do you think objectively that your view of me would be any different had I not hammered FFF yesterday? I'm reading your thoughts on the doctor claims, and it really appears to be completely one-sided, so I'm just wondering how much effort you'd like me to put into defending myself. When I'm told, by the one clear, that the hours of effort it took me to put together that links interaction post and doing a full re-read and thinking things through amount to "throw whatever crap I can and see what sticks"

Yes, had you not hammered F-16 yesterday my view on you would be rather different, here's how I saw the end of yesterday play out, F-16 started town-telling, posting readable content and putting forward the suggestion that you might be mafia, you hammered him without anyone getting a chance to jump in and pull back a vote, it's something that makes a lot of sense as mafia and something I'm having a lot of difficulty not reading into. That said at this point I'm not interested in you spending hours "Defending yourself" since like I've said over and over again that I'm more interested in lynching in the VT claims (Glad you've voted inside them though) because 1) I think that's where the roleblocker is and hopefully with a roleblocker lynch I won't have to sort out this mess of a doctor claim battle and 2) I can't get the above scenario out of my head but I town read pretty much the entirety of your play before that and still find some of your posts to be genuine so I'm far from certain you're scum, in fact it's a rather frustration situation because had you not hammered F-16 and had your push on BBT be somewhat different right now I'd probably be leaning the other way?

...which is basically just hedging yourself against the post-game blame, I stop caring about this game. You read as someone who didn't want to have to expend any effort examining statements made that don't fit into your pre-packaged (and wrong) view of the game. I'm done trying to convince you of it.

If you are indeed actually going to follow through on voting a VT, BBT has pegged Mala all game, and I'm pegging Xayzeck now. Make your play.

Hardly, I've reread this game several times with the hope that something I'd missed earlier would have popped out; the fact that several of my reads this game have changed such as Jcoz being town to suspecting F-16 ect. or scum reading Xay strongly to being unsure on her, or strongly town reading you to thinking you might be scum should prove that I'm here, listening, reading and willing to change my mind so I'm not "looking for things in my pre-packaged" view of the game only and like I've said I am planning on reading your analysis case in more detail, it's just something that's difficult to do unless I'm in the right head space.

PEdit: BBT, it's at a situation where he understands that I'm looking to lynch in the VT claims, that means that everyone would be voting the VT they suspect so while his vote might be "risky" since he wouldn't be "100% certain" is not a scum tell at all for him to make that vote. And no, we're not lynching Mora today.

[Moratorium]

Wow, you would have to be 100% sure that Mala was town to make this vote, if you were the doc.

I disagree. But feel free to jump on the wagon.

Because you're scum, it's of no concern to you because you know two townies won't jump on that vote.

I'm town, and I'm predicting you won't see a quick Xayzeck lynch.

[Moratorium]

Yes, had you not hammered F-16 yesterday my view on you would be rather different

Good to hear.

I have a PM from the mod apologizing for yesterday.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow, you would have to be 100% sure that Mala was town to make this vote, if you were the doc.

I disagree. But feel free to jump on the wagon.

Because you're scum, it's of no concern to you because you know two townies won't jump on that vote.

I'm town, and I'm predicting you won't see a quick Xayzeck lynch.

I agree. With one scum on the wagon already, it seems unlikely it should take off too quickly.

@Regfan - I'm kind of in a difficult spot here and I don't want to be the one who gets it wrong. Something about Mala's flip out at me felt genuine, and I've scum-read her ALL GAME. So, if we're not lynching Mora, I guess I just go with the majority because right now I don't know which way to go.

[Malakittens]

Reagan, before a hammer appears on either Xayz or I. Let me know what you stand on partnership. If I'm not lynched I'm in lyLo and I want some input as this helps me make a greater decision rather than a decision that could ult be wrong just done by myself.

I can see your point about mora lynching F-16 over Xayz. Personally, I wish I gave my opinion last day phrase louder as I would have loved Xayz lynched, but I had this slight feeling f16 was scum and couldn't shake it. I can see Xayz being partners with both, but I really do believe that mora is the doc and I have for days now =/.

Question for BBT:

After you got a reply that you couldn't self protect whom did you protect N1?

[Regfan]

@Regfan - I'm kind of in a difficult spot here and I don't want to be the one who gets it wrong. Something about Mala's flip out at me felt genuine, and I've scum-read her ALL GAME. So, if we're not lynching Mora, I guess I just go with the majority because right now I don't know which way to go.

If you want to hold of voting fine, but don't hold of stating and pushing stances between them, the more of that you can do right now the better.

Regfan, before a hammer appears on either Xayz or I. Let me know what you stand on partnership. If I'm not lynched I'm in lyLo and I want some input as this helps me make a greater decision rather than a decision that could ult be wrong just done by myself.

Will do. In the meantime something that's also been playing around in my mind that I'd like your thoughts on is the following:

Xay and you had claimed VT yesterday, that meant that the mafia knew the doctor was within Shinobi, BBT or Mora (With of course one of them being mafia themselves), I find it a little hard to swallow that Mora as scum would shoot Shinobi - someone that I'd listed a scum read on over BBT - someone I listed a town read on when deciding the shot between the two of them whereas it makes sense for BBT to shoot Shinobi over Mora given Moras hammer on F-16 so the nightkill is something I'm finding more likely to come from BBT as scum; do you agree and follow that logic if not where do you think I'm going wrong with it?

Heading to bed now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

After you got a reply that you couldn't self protect whom did you protect N1?

I didn't get a reply, I left it too late when I PM'd my choice.

[Moratorium]

Haha, it actually says in the PM that I can't target myself either.

Welcome to Newbie 1495 you are a Town Doctor

Abilities
You may vote during the day phase.
Protect:Each Night you may target a player, if successful, you will prevent them from dying that night.
Win condition
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Confirm via PM

[Malakittens]

@Regfan - I'm kind of in a difficult spot here and I don't want to be the one who gets it wrong. Something about Mala's flip out at me felt genuine, and I've scum-read her ALL GAME. So, if we're not lynching Mora, I guess I just go with the majority because right now I don't know which way to go.

If you want to hold of voting fine, but don't hold of stating and pushing stances between them, the more of that you can do right now the better.

Regfan, before a hammer appears on either Xayz or I. Let me know what you stand on partnership. If I'm not lynched I'm in lyLo and I want some input as this helps me make a greater decision rather than a decision that could ult be wrong just done by myself.

Will do. In the meantime something that's also been playing around in my mind that I'd like your thoughts on is the following:

Xay and you had claimed VT yesterday, that meant that the mafia knew the doctor was within Shinobi, BBT or Mora (With of course one of them being mafia themselves), I find it a little hard to swallow that Mora as scum would shoot Shinobi - someone that I'd listed a scum read on over BBT - someone I listed a town read on when deciding the shot between the two of them whereas it makes sense for BBT to shoot Shinobi over Mora given Moras hammer on F-16 so the nightkill is something I'm finding more likely to come from BBT as scum; do you agree and follow that logic if not where do you think I'm going wrong with it?

Heading to bed now.

Actually this makes sense in a way, but my logic stems from a different view. Part of the reason why I cleared shin from my scum list was based on that setup slip. It make him very likely in my mind that he wasn't a doc OR mafia. I personally think Mora would have been more observant that Shin was likely VT rather than a doc if Mora was indeed mafia. Mora and I had interactions regarding this itself during Day 1/2.

[Xayzeck]

I can see Xayz being partners with both

so opportunistic

[Xayzeck]

I'm town, and I'm predicting you won't see a quick Xayzeck lynch.

if you're scum

you won't be seeing it too

useless post

[Xayzeck]

Something about Mala's flip out at me felt genuine, and I've scum-read her ALL GAME.

setting up for

"hah she's scum I was right all along"

and

"oh she's town, i was right at the end there"