Newbie 1509: The Devil's Run (Game Over)

[Huntress]

I find Neil's posts full of fluff and lack of scumhunting.

Why not vote him then?

Just one. Or half. Replaced in an extremely long game, but that was in 2008. wasn't back here until now. On that note, Huntress seems familiar. I feel like you were in that pretty long newbie game as well.

Yes, I remember that one. It lasted six months, but that was before the days of pre-set deadlines. Fortunately they're much shorter now.

[blueheaven]

Yup.

My current FoS.

1. At shadow for being defensive. I know he has explained himself and seems like it understood why he was defensive. But Alina did give a reason why she voted him, and the reason was very obvious that it was RVS which shadow took as immediate suspicion.

2. Both neil and andrewseagull. I felt like they both are rushing for a decision.

Andrew for this post

Hey guys, new to this site and came in as a replacement for someone.

What's the plan then, are we no lynching on the first town phase or taking a shot in the dark and going for someone?

But Andrew is a newbie, so it's pretty much a null tell, but he is one i'll keep an eye on. IMO, rushing a decision/lynch does not benefit town especially not when we still have time.

And neil for putting FormerFish on 3 votes. Which I just realize that one of the votes are from Jopa/me. So,

unvote: FormerFish

I've only had one game so far, so I pretty much have no idea how random a Day 1 lynch is. But from my previous game, we had ALOT of tells, though they may not be accurate. Currently in this game, the tells are much lesser than that game. So, I consider rushing a decision at this stage not advantageous to town.

[blueheaven]

No idea why this part didn't appear in my post.

@shadow
Despite the pretty obvious random nature of Alina's vote on you, why do you consider it an immediate suspicion and take it as a threat? And since you dislike it, due to the history you have playing in other websites, didn't you find it weird how votes were flying around from the get go? And why didn't you question their votes?

@Babisoup
About your post

@Formerfish:

I am pussy=timid and quiet I guess..., and your not missing anything. And "I think he is town and I want to hear more of his fish jokes" = I think he is scum, but I would like to see more posts from him.

I find Neil's posts full of fluff and lack of scumhunting.

Care to explain why you'd think Jopa is scum? And why you consider Neil's post full of fluff?

[BabiSoup]

@Huntress

I find that voting scum who is not posting is better than voting scum who is posting. What do you think about Neil's vote on Formerfish?

@blueheaven

Jopa is scum because he made an RVS post then later didn't bother to make a single post even though he visited the site. Can you name me a situation where town would do that? Neil's posts are hell-ass lengthy but lack any ass at all. I don't see him scumhunting.

[shaddowez]

@blueheaven

- It's my nature to be defensive, especially when I didn't do anything wrong. Not being used to how everything worked here, I reacted similarly to how I do in the other site I've played on. As for why I didn't ask about the other votes, between the posting on here, looking at some prior games, and the fact that a bunch of clarifying posts got made within a half hour of me posting, I felt I understood the reasoning.

@Andrewseagull

- Especially coming from a game where the day phases were much shorter than here, why would you ask about a No Lynch for Day 1?

[blueheaven]

@BabiSoup
How do you rate your current activity in terms of scumhunting so far?

@Neil
I have trouble understanding the term AtF. Any simpler way to explain it?
And do you think post #46 is a serious defense from Fish? Because you are right, it IS a very inadequate defense, but I was thinking that he didn't really consider that post as a defense anyway.

[BabiSoup]

@BabiSoup
How do you rate your current activity in terms of scumhunting so far?

7for7

Speaking for myself, my activity is 4/10. Why do you ask?

[blueheaven]

@BabiSoup
How do you rate your current activity in terms of scumhunting so far?

7for7

Speaking for myself, my activity is 4/10. Why do you ask?

Because I was comparing your scumhunting with neil's. It has been pretty slow so far, so efforts in scumhunting is pretty sparse. I was planning to do a pbpa for everyone eventually to organize everything.

Although it might be way too early, I'll post yours and neil's first. The others will come eventually, though hopefully after more posts.

Bold

are stuff I might want answers to.

Pbpa for BabiSoup
10 posts so far
1. Nothing to note
2. RQS answers, nothing to note
3. Good question for Shadow. By this I meant that it was a good question, not that it gives any insight by directing it specifically at Shadow.
4. Answering Alina. Question: Why ask about lies in RQS as a response to Alina? Were you lying in your answers? Or was it just that RQS don’t really need to be taken seriously? Notice that you seem fond of sarcasm
5. Vote on Jopa. With a hint of sarcasm though not very clear. Sounded like part of a random vote to me initially
6. A reply to Alina, very defensive. And I while I wouldn’t put sarcasm as scumtell, it certainly does not help town. Still have yet to justify your vote on Jopa
7. Nothing to note
8. Random note: Pussy (Timid and quiet) seems to contradict with cheeky. Anyway, Here, you clarified your vote on Jopa. And

can I consider your next comment as an FoS on neil?

Since you said his post are full of fluff, a direct reference to his statement that he will post fluffs if he is scum.
9. Finally, a proper explanation on the Jopa vote.

I would like to know why voting on a scum not posting is better than a scum that is posting

but I’ll wait for Huntress to answer your question first.

Pbpa for Neil
4 posts so far
1. Good intro, good way to start discussion. Will look out for your fluffs.
2. Nothing much to note, though a good question for Alina. Though not sure if there was some sort of question to find out PRs.
3. Nothing to note
4. Interesting post. A vote on Fish. I would like more clarification from neil about his vote.

Which post from fish did you consider scum-motivated, or was it just the quote that you quoted?

And also the question that I stated earlier for you(neil).

[Andrewseagull]

@formerfish

- Just from the way your posts come across. It's just a gut feeling, in the other game i played, my gut feeling was right more than not. My suspicion is not strong enough to vote for you or anything like that though.

Surely you know that on day 1 there is not much to go on apart from gut feelings or hoping that someone gives them self away.

@Andrewseagull

- Especially coming from a game where the day phases were much shorter than here, why would you ask about a No Lynch for Day 1?

On the game I played before we were close to no lynching on the first day to save a townie (as we were most likely to hit one). We ended up going against it and gunning for someone, who then turned out to be a cop.

[Clusk92]

Here's a rundown on my reads so far:

Alina

- My biggest townread atm due to her activity, seems like she's geniunely trying to catch scum and is very open and honest.

Huntress

- Null atm, hasn't contributed too much but her posts don't seem suspicious so far.

BabiSoup

- Definitely seems like scum to me atm, lack of reasoning behind his votes (I believe policy lynching to be bad too) and also unclear sarcasm in posts which makes it confusing for town when reading his posts.

FormerFish

- Leaning towards town, even though the post interrupting Alina's questioning may seem mildly suspicious, he's been active in fishing (pardon the pun) for information by asking plenty of questions himself so I believe has town's best interest at heart.

Shaddowez

- Scumread - no scumhunting to be seen so far and is too busy with being very defensive in most of his posts.

Blueheaven

- Townread - has come in and posted good detailed content and seems to geniunely want to scumhunt.

Neil

- Null/town atm, not got too much to go off, but his first post in the thread is very open and honest about his style, particularly playing as scum, would scum give away their play style in their very first post? Would seem very suicidal to me.

[Clusk92]

Oh forgot

Andrewseagull

- Null atm due to only just joining and not posting much

[Alina]

Sorry for not posting at all yesterday, guys.

Anyways, I'm glad that we got someone in Jopalopa's spot who's actually posting. I have a good feeling about them for now. Honestly, Clusk pretty much has the exact same reads I do, with the exception of two people, which is somewhat eerie, but whatever. I'll elaborate more on what my reads actually are, soon. I'm just waiting for someone to post first. I like Blueheaven's idea for making notes on thoughts of everyone's posts, so I'm going to actually do that now, it might give me a clearer idea on everyone, which I'm kind of lacking right now.

[Baezu]

Vote Count 1.04

BabiSoup: (1) Clusk92
neil1113: (1) Formerfish
Formerfish: (2) huntress , neil1113
blueheaven: (2) BabiSoup, Alina

Not Voting: Andrewseagull, shaddowez, blueheaven

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-06-19 11:30:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[Alina]

Actually, I changed my mind. Now that I've read everyone through, I know exactly where I want my vote to be, and right now.

VOTE: neil1113

I'll explain this: In his first post, it's pretty much all just typical IC stuff and then some typical RQS questions, but what I found interesting was in that post, he described his entire game so far!

His First Post: #16:

3. I'm a very blunt, straight-forward person in some games, though this can change depending on my mood. My scum game is very simple, I like to talk as much as possible without actually giving any information. It's called "Fluff." Something you'll probably see some people call out others for during this game. Fluff is saying a lot, without actually saying anything useful.

This summarizes his entire game so far. I'll go further and point out how truly contentless his posts have been.

Awesome! Good to see you playing here Shadow!

In post 23, Alina" omg I feel horrible I actually skimmed neil's wall as I assumed it was standard IC fare without any real commentary on the game/any RQS. Sorry!

It's okay....

#hatetheIC
#nobodycaresaboutNeil
#sadlife
#justkidding
#.....
#sortof

In post 233. What is your personality like usually? This is a pretty important question to decipher scumminess from personality, in my opinion.

Oh, god. I can be one way one day, and the complete opposite another day. I'm usually fairly timid, but I'm trying to be the opposite of that in this game, because being timid and not committing to anything/just sitting around is not going to make myself all that useful.

What importance do you place on staying alive or surviving in your approach to this game specifically?

P.Edit:

(means Post-Submit Edit, which is what somebody does when they hit submit on their post and realize that someone else has submitted something before them, and they'd like to respond to it without re-writing their entire post.)

Alina, nobody here really frowns to much on double posting or even triple posting. What's really significant is when you post a lot in a row or you post multiple times in a row, every time you post... that's when people take notice.:)

His Second Post: #25: More fluff, with "oh no hate the IC I am so sad." This seems kind of a way to make me feel sympathy for him or something, but either way, whether it is or not, it's just fluff. Then he asks me a question about how I treat staying alive in this game, which come on, isn't really all that great a question - you could ask it to anyone and you'd probably get the same answer unless they were an idiot. And then he answers my double post question. Not really suspect, but, still nothing really to do with the game yet.

His Third Post: #26: Asks if the mod can fix his quote fail...nothing really significant, I'm just writing all his posts out here because he only has four.

Hey guys, new to this site and came in as a replacement for someone.

What's the plan then, are we no lynching on the first town phase or taking a shot in the dark and going for someone?

Hi Andrew!

It's neither of those options. We have plenty of time to discuss so by the time we need to lynch someone we should have a better idea of who we think are the mafia. Aiming for a no-lynch just gives scum the opportunity to avoid giving anything away, and leaves us with no clues about alignments which will greatly hinder us later.

Precisely. We have 2 weeks of a deadline from the time this game began (you can see the deadline on the first page of this game, as well as on every vote count Baezu posts), which means we have 14 days to question people, force people to scum hunt, and find the inconsistencies of those pretending to scum hunt and call them out on their lack of town-motivation. :)

Oh goody.

Are we going to have a repeat of the last time we were in a newbie game together?

I don't find Formerfish scum because of his over-eagerness and quick response to someone's question toward someone else without even letting them finish, however it can constitute as a scum-tell should the rest of his posting(s) feel non-town motivated. However what makes me more comfortable to vote him right now, would be the post I quoted above. It's a blatant AtF (Appeal-To-Fear) which means he's appealing to the fear of a consequence which occurred during a previous game experience, which is not a fair push because it's manipulation. Two games, two completely different roles, and more statistically improbable than not that they would both be in the same exact position saying the same exact things. So to use such as a defense is usually more considered scummy (in other words, scum are more likely to use it) because it's not an adequate defense, but rather trying to manipulate an emotion to make them "afraid" to vote you.

With that said, while I can't say that all of Formerfish's postings have been scum-motivated, as of right now, this is where I find most comfortable for my vote to be placed.

VOTE: FormerFish

And in his Fourth Post, #57: He says pretty much exactly what Huntress just said about us having plenty of time. He's trying to make himself look more useful than he's actually being by filling it up with nonsense and stuff people have already said. And while I could SOMEWHAT comprehend his vote on FormerFish from a town perspective, I feel it comes from a scum just trying to take advantage of a tiny, I'm not quite sure if this is the right word, but "mistake." Go ahead and isolate all his posts, it's kind of ridiculous how little he's actually said. He's RADIATING scum to me right now, so I'm very happy with voting him. :)

[shaddowez]

Hey all, just as a heads up I will most likely only be posting at night this week. My wife and I are babysitting an 5-month old for a friend, so the little time I could usually sneak in when my little one is napping is pretty much gone.

Alina eloquently put into words the thought process I had going on today, but I'll add a couple of my own notes as well.

In Post #57 Neil jumped onto the bandwagon of voting for Formerfish putting him at L-2, without even being able to strongly justify his own vote:

With that said, while I can't say that all of Formerfish's postings have been scum-motivated, as of right now, this is where I find most comfortable for my vote to be placed.

Formerfish then hits the nail on the head with

And of all the things that could be scummy the thing you are going to latch on to is a jokey reach out to someone....

One comment was made, and the vote wasn't based on the interaction that happened here. The vote was made on the fact that Formerfish may be trying to manipulate the rest of us with information from another game that we don't have all the info for, and without the rest of the interaction that occurred we'd know pretty much nothing about.

Additionally, outside of his intro/RQS post, and the post where he votes for Formerfish, Neil has had almost no interaction with anyone, and in 85 posts has made 4.

Vote: Neil

. Unless I miscounted, this puts him at

L-2

[shaddowez]

@Babi

- When asked about not voting for Neil, you said even though you had previously said you found Neil scummy..

I find that voting scum who is not posting is better than voting scum who is posting

Jopa was who you voted for, who has been replaced by blueheaven and has been active. Neil has been quiet, and even though you have posted since blueheaven, you haven't changed your vote. Why is that?

[Huntress]

@Huntress

I find that voting scum who is not posting is better than voting scum who is posting. What do you think about Neil's vote on Formerfish?

1) Are you basing that purely on post count or is there more to it?
2) I see what he's getting at but I think he's exaggerating a bit.

@ blueheaven:

When looking through a player's posts, there's no need to list every single one of them. If you just mention those you want to make a point about it will make your posts easier to follow. Otherwise it looks like you're padding your posts out which is a bit of a scum tell.

[blueheaven]

@ blueheaven:

When looking through a player's posts, there's no need to list every single one of them. If you just mention those you want to make a point about it will make your posts easier to follow. Otherwise it looks like you're padding your posts out which is a bit of a scum tell.

Noted. That would make my life simpler. I will heed your advice for future post by post analysis.

Although, for the pbpa on neil and BabiSoup, I felt it was important to highlight all the posts because we were talking about fluff and with BabiSoup saying that neil is guilty of fluff. So I thought of comparing their activity (no. of posts) vs their content. And it also highlights the amount of posts he took to justify his vote, which should have been justified in his initial post.

[BabiSoup]

@blueheaven

can I consider your next comment as an FoS on neil? Yes
I would like to know why voting on a scum not posting is better than a scum that is posting. To apply pressure(lol) for the scum to post.

@shaddowez

I didn't change my vote though because

I wanted to see Neil's responses to Formerfish and hopefully others myself included

.(fail)

@Huntress

1) I'm basing it purely on post count(hopefully content)
2) I don't see what he's getting at.

@Alina

I share the almost the same sentiments with you, but I wonder(a bit) if he would be so obvious as scum and even

tried to induce a quickhammer

(I think) even though he mentioned the 2 weeks of a deadline.

VOTE: Neil

L-1

Nobody should vote for Neil at this point(to avoid lynching a PR) and should state intent to hammer(for a claim) before doing so.

@Neil

Tell me who at this point is the scummiest.

[BabiSoup]

And it also highlights the amount of posts he took to justify his vote, which should have been justified in his initial post

Why should it have been justified in my initial post?

[Alina]

UNVOTE: neil1113

I do NOT want someone accidentally quick hammering but he's still my top suspect

[Alina]

Okay now that I got that out of the way ( I was really scared someone might pop up and vote him )

Just treat this as a vote that I don't want to apply because I don't want this day ending early....it's an imaginary vote that's there but isn't.

FOS: neil1113

[BabiSoup]

@Alina, do you think that my vote was scummy? Just a general question.

[Alina]

No, actually. You've expressed your suspicion of Neil a few times now so it's not out of the blue, and I currently have you as a townread.

[blueheaven]

And it also highlights the amount of posts he took to justify his vote, which should have been justified in his initial post

Why should it have been justified in my initial post?

Just thought that sarcasm confuses people and don't really help town. Didn't really know what you were trying to achieve with sarcasm, that's all.