NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Glork]

Like, I'm actually legit mad that people suspect me, because I would NEVER let my ego allow me to be "wrong" about LML as scum. I realize that's self-meta and probably won't be believed, but I need to say it. I was adamant about not-liking the LML lynch, and I'm almost 90% certain that as scum, I'd have made some allowance for myself to try to gain credibility by deciding LML was scum. Even after the alleged slip, I stated AS I VOTED LML that it was merely "better than a Bookitty lynch." I was working and just as easily could have not checked the site (or not posted) and let that ride out to a no-lynch or a Bookitty-lynch.

[Yosarian2]

KK wagon was bullshit in my opinion. I'm suspicious of anyone on it. I'm beating a dead horse though. If you disagree, I don't think I'm going to be able to say anything else to convince you.

I'm pretty sure it never grew past four. If you think there was a legit attempt by scum to save LML at the probable risk of being exposed over the course of a large normal game made up entirely of veteran (and competent) players, you need to reconsider. Nobody here was going to go completely out of their way to save their scumbuddy LML on Day One at that point, because it makes zero sense as a long-term strategy.

If the town had no-lynched on day 1, like we almost did, then what would have happened? We would have moved into day 2 with the same group of people wanting to lynch LML, the same group of people wanting to lynch Bookitty, the same group of people wanting to lynch KK, and no new information. And one less pro-town vote, increasing the size of the scum voting block, making it even less likely for us to vote scum. More, it would have been very demoralizing for the town; having the exact same debate that we had on day 1 all over again, for weeks. That kind of thing can break even the best towns, can turn good players into lurkers or into irrational zealots.

[chamber]

There was like 0 chance of a no-lynch actually happening though? I can't remember the last time I've seen a deadline caused no-lynch.

[DrippingGoofball]

petroleumjelly, Save the Dragons, Porochaz, Kublai Khan, Porochaz

Two of these players bus'ed LML yesterday, and are currently going after me, the easy lynch-du-jour.

[Save The Dragons]

KK wagon was bullshit in my opinion. I'm suspicious of anyone on it. I'm beating a dead horse though. If you disagree, I don't think I'm going to be able to say anything else to convince you.

I'm pretty sure it never grew past four.

Did you expect it to get past four votes?

[Glork]

KK wagon was bullshit in my opinion. I'm suspicious of anyone on it. I'm beating a dead horse though. If you disagree, I don't think I'm going to be able to say anything else to convince you.

I'm pretty sure it never grew past four. If you think there was a legit attempt by scum to save LML at the probable risk of being exposed over the course of a large normal game made up entirely of veteran (and competent) players, you need to reconsider. Nobody here was going to go completely out of their way to save their scumbuddy LML on Day One at that point, because it makes zero sense as a long-term strategy.

If the town had no-lynched on day 1, like we almost did, then what would have happened? We would have moved into day 2 with the same group of people wanting to lynch LML, the same group of people wanting to lynch Bookitty, the same group of people wanting to lynch KK, and no new information. And one less pro-town vote, increasing the size of the scum voting block, making it even less likely for us to vote scum. More, it would have been very demoralizing for the town; having the exact same debate that we had on day 1 all over again, for weeks. That kind of thing can break even the best towns, can turn good players into lurkers or into irrational zealots.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at? If we had been within minutes of deadline and there were no options, I probably would have voted Bookitty, despite my protests.

If I were scum, I would have waited that long, and then protested while voting Bookitty. Or I would have waited that long and not checked the game after work and let the chips fall where they may.

I'm pretty certain that I would not have voted someone else entirely, then found the weakest possible reason to vote LML while proclaiming that I didn't like doing it.

And I'm fairly (though less) certain that the other KK-voters fall under basically the same category.

Do you disagree? If so, who among the KK voters do you think was *actually* trying to find a non-LML, non-Bookitty lynch?

[Glork]

KK wagon was bullshit in my opinion. I'm suspicious of anyone on it. I'm beating a dead horse though. If you disagree, I don't think I'm going to be able to say anything else to convince you.

I'm pretty sure it never grew past four.

Did you expect it to get past four votes?

To be frank, I didn't have any expectations. My vote was because KK wasn't providing the content promised, and we were less than a day to deadline. I even asked him to just put down his vote THEN post his anlaysis (which he did), so the rest of us had *something* to go on. And then I moved on.

[Glork]

KK wagon was bullshit in my opinion. I'm suspicious of anyone on it. I'm beating a dead horse though. If you disagree, I don't think I'm going to be able to say anything else to convince you.

I'm pretty sure it never grew past four.

Did you expect it to get past four votes?

Plus, that's kind of irrelevant to the point.


It's fucking HORRIBLE strategy to try to save a doomed Mafia Goon on Day One, when as soon as either you OR the goon in question dies, the other one is probably going to follow soon after. LML was dead weight. The play at that point is to cut your losses, not to try to carry that dead weight to victory. I think that LML's lament about being bused is at least partly true, because even he knew he was dead weight when he refused to claim, complained about being the lynch, then tried to claim Doc.

I'm arguing that

none of KK's voteres was stupid enough to try to carry that dead weight

. If you disagree, I'd like to know who specifically you think tried to save him by voting KK, and why.

[DrippingGoofball]

then tried to claim Doc.

Really? I thought he was hinting at roleblocker.

[chamber]

How did you get roleblocker from hickory dickory dock?

[Untrod Tripod]

Two of these players bus'ed LML yesterday, and are currently going after me, the easy lynch-du-jour.

woe is me I am so easy to lynch

god you're so scum dgb

[DrippingGoofball]

How did you get roleblocker from hickory dickory dock?

What's that? Where did he say that?

Wasn't there something about a mouse and a clock? I thought messing with the clock movement.

[DrippingGoofball]

Two of these players bus'ed LML yesterday, and are currently going after me, the easy lynch-du-jour.

woe is me I am so easy to lynch

god you're so scum dgb

Play the game and stop trolling.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm sorry which one of us successfully called out scum on day 1 and which one of us trolled the game with a useless attempt at a wagon on me while asking people to make the case for you?

[DrippingGoofball]

While I do have concerns about mutual hard-bus'ing between PJ & LML, I find that PJ pointing out the phoniness of LML's spreadsheet, which completely fooled me, would make it an extreme-bus. It was then a time to sit back and see how his partner's efforts were received.

LML's fake spreadsheet lead him to a UT vote.

Here's who I am leaning scum on:

UT, Mathcam, STD, Sotty

Here's who I have strong scum feelings for:

PJ

I would bet two scums in that list.

LML voted Tigris, PJ, STD, UT, KK >>> I would bet that some of the cross-bus'ing referenced to by LML was his scumpals' reaction to being bus'ed by LML.
LML FOS: GC, MafiaSSK/mathcam, CTD >>> most likely scum in the list (mildly so) is mathcam.

petroleumjelly:

(1) Suspected mega cross-bus'ing
(2) voted MafiaSSK/mathcam, LML, Bookitty, LML, DGB, Glork
(3) FOS MafiaSSK/mathcam, VitaminR, Glork, Bookitty, Glork

Save the Dragons:

(1) Suspected cross-bus'ing.
(2) voted UT, MafiaSSK/mathcam, Seol/Bookitty, undo, Zorblag, PJ, Bookitty, LML, PJ,

Porochaz:

(1) Suspected bus'ing.
(2) voted UT, MafiaSSK/mathcam, LML, DGB
(3) Reading Poro's iso, he's very nebulous and wishy-washy about everything except for an un-natural laser focus accuracy on LML. That does reek of bus'ing by a player in dire need of redeeming himself. Also mirrors PJ's evaluation of LML's excel sheet as nonsense.

Kublai Khan:

(1) Suspected bus'ing.

I think LoudmouthLee is pretty scummy. petroleumjelly doesn't seem scummy. Just getting started on analyzing BooKitty. So, VOTE: LoudmouthLee

for now

.

This sounds like lazy bus'ing. KK didn't even "analyze" Bookitty at all.

Scum: sotty7, LML, VitaminR, porochaz, Seol/Bookitty

Sotty7:

(1) LML leaning scum on Sotty but not voting Sotty or FOS'ing Sotty
(2) votes Glork, Seol/Bookitty, DGB

I would support a LML wagon outside my current Seol vote, mostly based on some "bad mojo" he's been exuding

I'm not buying the scum slip simply because the rest of that post sounded like frustrated town to me. My vote's not switching.

MafiaSSK/mathcam:

(1) voted Bookity, FOS PJ. Antidote to all the bus'ing???

UntrodTripod:

(1)

unvote vote lml

balls deep

smells like a coasting, trolling pot-shotting scum that KNOWS LML will flip scum.

==================

OK.

(a) Porochaz is one of the worse-looking players on that list.
(b) KK is also looking terrible. Interesting that LML & Porochaz are on KK's scum list.
(c) Sotty7 & mathcam may be the non-bus'ing scum. Mathcam doesn't mention STD. Sotty7 has prepared the grounds to bus LML but votes Bookitty and refuses to vote LML

in extremis

, so Sotty7 is prob town for this. Leaving mathcam as a non-bus'ing scum candidate.
(d) UT is scum.
(e) Of PJ & STD, and I really feel like I'm close to coin-tossing here, the player that is potentially scummiest is PJ. HOWEVER I would let these two live longer because they're worth getting a better read on.

SCUM: Porochaz, KK, mathcam, UT

[DrippingGoofball]

Favored lynches:

Porochaz, KK, mathcam, UT

Would half-assedly lynch PJ or STD, preferring more time to read them better.

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote: Glork

Vote: DrippingGoofball

I wanted to spread some votes today, but now I am just ready to lynch DrippingGoofball. Let's cut down on the page count and get it done. In the meantime:

1.)

Glork, answer my questions. Ignoring them does not make them go away.

2.)

Glork, acting like your late and "reluctant" vote on LoudmouthLee is a point in your favor is doing you no favors. At that point in the game, if you are scum, you could not suddenly "see the light" and attack LoudmouthLee for credit. So your only choice if you wanted

any

Towncredit was to vote LoudmouthLee but to act unhappy about it.

Your other options as scum (which would not gain you

any

Towncredit) would be to be simply shoot for a No Lynch, either by being conveniently absent

or

by pushing a wagon doomed to failure (i.e., Untrod Tripod and Kublai Khan and possibly even Bookitty if we got too close to the deadline).

The fact that you are trying to shine the spotlight away from players who were sticking their heads in the sand is legitimately baffling. That is a

perfectly

good place to look, and somewhere I have looked at myself.

Any scum can bus any partner. Any scum can defend any partner. It's really that simple. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.

~

3.)

I do not think Bookitty's explanation of her reasons for jumping on me Day One make sense, and I disagree with Sotty7 that it makes Bookitty look Town.

First, why would Bookitty assume that LoudmouthLee crumbing "roleblocker" made LoudmouthLee

Town

, even after he made a post she (half) admits is scummy?

Second, given that Bookitty has admitted that LoudmouthLee's Vote Count Analysis was scummy, why would she assume that my jump on LoudmouthLee was because I actually thought LoudmouthLee was a Town Roleblocker? Apparently because my vote was "fabricated"? Fabricated

how

? Opportunistic? Opportunistic

how

? When

else

was I supposed to vote for him?

Third, I was

far

from the only player to attack LoudmouthLee, so why would Bookitty focus on

me

as having discerned LoudmouthLee's role, but nobody else?

There are also other issues (such as the obvious, "scum playing the long game would rather just

nightkill

suspected power roles rather than having them claim and potentially having the bandwagon backfire on them," and the fact that LoudmouthLee was obviously making a pun on "cockblocking" with his "diceblocking" comment) that slightly notch down her credibility.

To me, this is feeling like Bookitty knew she was going to catch heat today and so she spent Night One (potentially with her partners) trying to figure out how to justify her Day One actions. She could even have done this as Town. But I do not believe this is actually what was going on in Bookitty's head on Day One.

Her jump to explain chamber's question on why LoudmouthLee did not attack her when the question was posed to Glork is also suggestive of giving a lot of thought on bleaching her Day One play.

PPE

: I see DrippingGoofball has posted some giant thing, so I will read it now.

[petroleumjelly]

No. That is just awful. The laser-focus on players who attacked LoudmouthLee is so astoundingly dumb I can hardly believe it. Even if some scum bussed LoudmouthLee (and I will even grant there was probably one or two), I would also suspect there was scum

off

of his wagon. Looking at one pool while ignoring the other based on LoudmouthLee's second-to-last post in the game, where I think he knew the jig was up and was obviously trying to stir the pot, is literally as bad as it gets.

DrippingGoofball can eat rope. Predictably, only now that she is the "lynch du jour" does she post anything with even a

resemblance

to actual content. And the content that she does produce is stilted and she knows it. Acting like she did not understand the Hickory Dickory Doc(tor) claim is not credible.

[DrippingGoofball]

The laser-focus on players who attacked LoudmouthLee is so astoundingly dumb

He's the one that complained about being bus'ed, LOL.

[DrippingGoofball]

Acting like she did not understand the Hickory Dickory Doc(tor) claim is not credible.

Yeah I had to look this up, I'm French, I never heard of such things.

[DrippingGoofball]

I would also suspect there was scum off of his wagon.

For sure, but the combination of bus'ing LOL and VOTING THE EASY LYNCH DGB is powerful indeed.

[Bookitty]

@PJ

:

Your comment that you'd been afraid to engage (I am tired and I'm not looking up the exact wording right now, but I think that's a decent paraphrase) LML followed by a rather vehement case after a couple of people had already been on the bandwagon looked odd. It's like someone saying, "I was afraid to take on Glork, but this VCA he did was just the last straw!" You hadn't been shy earlier, and you didn't look scared later. It didn't ring true to me.

It didn't occur to me that he'd be breadcrumbing roleblocker as scum. I guess that's confirmation bias, but I thought he was playing scummy to try to avoid the night kill. I had filed him in town PR before I ever replaced in. It wasn't until the bus thing that I thought he was scum. I was even thinking of voting myself to make sure of a lynch before that, which makes it even worse.

And yes, I feel really stupid now.

[DrippingGoofball]

why would Bookitty assume that LoudmouthLee crumbing "roleblocker"

Oh hey look, someone else thought "roleblocker!"

[DrippingGoofball]

No. That is just awful.

How many of your buddies did I catch?

[Bookitty]

random my ass! you edited those dice you dog.

Pfft. Your memories post halted my dice rolling.

Roll

us Interruptus.

PS: STD is another Postus Interruptus. Stop Dice

Blocking

me.

No. I thought he was role blocker because of this. LML's non-claim was a reference to a children's poem, which I believe goes like this:

Hickory Dickory Dock
The mouse ran up the clock
The clock struck one, and down he run
Hickory Dickory DOCk.

See it now?