Consulmaker - Carthage wins!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yea, I don't think the N9V lynch is any real indication that Zindie is scum. I believe that, whatever his alignment is, he genuinely figured out that N9V was scum. However, that still doesnt't preclude him from being an elephant...

"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse." Vote Count

No votes yet.

[Shanba]

Right... here we go... *dives in*.
Anything I don't specifically address is because I am satisfied with the response given.

PART 2:

MoS... I indicated I thought he was pro-town earlier, but upon re-reading I no longer do. First off, there's the vote count Zindaras referenced earlier in his execution post day 1. This is what I meant when I said I would come back to that post later

Mastermind of Sin - 4(Zindaras, Primate, TheEyeOfMordor, ~N9V~)
Raffles - 4(Raffles, Cephrir, Battle Mage, Panzerjager)

Right. Look at the players on the MoS wagon at that point: Zindaras, TheEyeOfMordor,

Primate, ~N9V~.

Isn't that interesting. Two scum out of four on his wagon, plus Zindie and TEOM. Now, shall we look at MoS' interactions with TEOM?

TEOM is right.

Ok, nothing there, he's simply supporting TEOM against Battle Mage.

now we're getting somewhere *edit out smiley* Don't forget TEOM, Battle Mage. ^_^

This is after BM analyzes Kison, nothing useful.

read him before the crash, and I found him neutral, leaning towards slightly scummy. I've hardly had time to do much reading since then, but you know that. We've gone over this already, haven't we?

Boom. Now this is interesting. and this is why:

Of everyone in the game, I would only support myself, TEOM, and Raffles as Tribunes right now. The other players aren't even possibilities at this point. Electing any of them would be highly illogical.

and then he votes TEOM for tribune.

And? I read TEOM again in more detail today, going through the list of everyon that was alive, and I came to the conclusion that he wasn't as scummy as I'd thought he was before (which was hardly at all, to be fair).

BM, are you really this dense, or are you just trying to make a mockery out of this game? Clearly TEOM was referring to voting as in voting someone for tribune. He saw no point in voting a lurker for Tribune unless they speak up and prove themselves.

Let TEOM talk for himself.

I fail to see how I was saying anything new that TEOM would've had to say for himself. It was pretty clear by TEOM's post what he meant, so what's the problem with me correcting BM's ridiculous assumptions?

Clearly he picked up on the second kill today because we have two dead Carthiginians, and no dead scum from the other group. This means that we need to start killing the other group before we lose too many more protown players.

And again. But then: TEOM makes his weird post about not self voting, and MoS drops him like a wet fish. Dodgy. So where were we? We had Primatescum, N9Vscum and TEOM dodgy interactions voting MoS for tribune day 1. This does not look good.

Wait. So, TEOM does something very scummy, and I'm scummy for thinking that he's now scummy because of it? WTF?

uhh, missed these first time round

Did you mean to say MoS instead of mole?

I reread his posts, I don't see anything scum about him. BM is just spouting crap, especially when he refuses to extrapolate for us.

This is interesting given he said a few posts before that TEOM was neutral leaning scummy.

That's the whole TEOM section. The basic premise of this section was this: there was a vote count showing two scum voting you for tribune. I remembered that I had been suspicious of your interactions with TEOM already, so I went through and isolated what I thought was suspicious. I saw two scum and one person who I feel has a connection to you voting for you.

TEOM had lurked a bit during the game and hadn't really said anything I felt was pro-town so I found your vote for him interesting. I don't understand that you can be that sure enough of his pro-townness to vote him tribune and then be swayed in your opinion by one odd action. In fact, I reckon it's more likely that he is your scumbuddy and that you changed your mind on him when it became apparent that he wasn't going to live up to the pro-town ideal you needed from him.

Besides all that, you failed to even acknowledge the original point: two out of four people voting you for tribune mid day 1 were scum.

Now, MoS has also been on BM's case the whole game. In his case, I have seen him do it elsewhere, but I do not understand why this makes him scum this game. Noone has provided a real case against BM except his poor logic, which with BM is a given. So I find this opportunistic too.

BM's poor logic is more than enough reason to execute him, to be honest, in any game. If he's scum, he does a damn good job of distracting and disorienting the town, and if he's protown, then he does a horrible job of helping the town get anywhere useful, and does the scum's work for them. As a result, no scum would ever want to kill him, so we have to lynch him if we're ever going to have peace of mind and be able to concentrate on actually finding scum. That's not to mention the fact that he COULD very well be scum.

Day 1 you indicated that you didn't think BM should be executed simply because his logic was crap. I don't believe he should be executed simply because his logic is crap, because I believe him to be pro-town and every pro-town player is an extra warm body.

Initial LoE: Battle Mage, Kison, Raffles, Zindaras

This has been said before, but this is identical to Zindaras simply with him added. I don't get the logic there, does he think Zindaras is throwing all his buddies under the bus in one fell swoop? However, more importantly, I would like to know the connection MoS felt he saw between Kison and Raffles, as Raffles has been in my pro-town camp for a long while and I haven't seen any reason to move him from it.

Where did I say that I felt everyone on my LoE was scum together? Kison and Raffles were the only two people on the LoE that I felt a connection from, giving the way that they had avoided talking about each other on Day 2 even though others were talking about them individually, especially Kison. Obviously, I was wrong, which is why I no longer feel that Raffles is particularly scummy. Which reminds me:

Vote: Raffles for Tribune

, as I had previously mentioned.

There's almost certainly more that I've missed about MoS, but one thing I would note is:

Yeah, I agree with AndrewS' point 2. I hate self-voting and try to avoid it unless I feel it's truly necessary.

I understand why I didn't self-vote Day 1, but when there are no other options for Tribune, there is no good reason NOT to self-vote.

I don't, please elaborate.

Sure. Why vote myself for Tribune when I can support a perfectly good candidate that is not myself? I DO hate self-voting, but that only really applies when there are other candidates worth voting for, which TEOM didn't feel was the case today. I felt that AndrewS would do a great job as Tribune, so after saving my vote and looking at my options, I voted for him instead of myself.

Anything else?

Note the discrepancy between the three quotes. In the first he is taking a jokey attitude, saying that there might be elephant mafia. Night 1 there was a stomped kill, so that whole first post feels off, and looks like prior knowledge.

It was a joke. The fact that I was proven right about Elephants when Cessy finally posted the flavour for Night 1 (which was done after I made that post) says nothing. I simply know a lot about ancient history, because I've always been interested in it. I could've predicted you the inclusion of roles like Hasdrubal and Quintus Fabius too. I'm probably right in stating that Maharbal and Hannibal are two of the remaining scum (depending on how many scum there are. At the very least I'm sure about those, another one I don't know). Does that look like prior knowledge to you?

Knowing the theme of the game you are playing well is completely different from identifying the flavour of the serial killer. Especially if, as you now say, the flavour of the kills wasn't even posted day 1. Guessing that there were elephant(s) in the setup has little to do with your knowledge of the punic wars. Simply stating it says nothing is not enough, at least to my mind.

In the next post mentioning elephants he insinuates that he knew that the kill was elpehantine. While this may be the case, and I strongly suspect it is, he never explicitly said it day 1, instead calling the idea of an elephant mafia awesome. So he's contradicted himself slightly there. Then finally, his last post he clearly indicates that he thinks it's an SK and not a mafia, as he implied in his first post.

It was something I had put in my mind a while before and I thought I had posted about it.

This post explains that, but then there's a different contradiction. He says in his first post that the elephants would be an awesome mafia, indicating that he there is a possibility of a second mafia. Plus I just disagree with this post generally, I can't see from the flavour, especially given two night 1 kills, any reason for the elephant(s) to be Sk and not mafia.

It was a joke answer to TEOM's question. TEOM said a second Mafia were possible. The only possibility, flavour-wise, for a second Mafia, are the elephants, as I said.

Now, secondly, there's his suspicions history. Day 1 he indicates a suspicion of Panzer (me).

An IGMEOY is hardly something one has to follow on.

All the rest of his day 1 posts are basically fluff, theory discussion, before his one big post where he concludes that ~N9v~, Cephrir and Toaster Strudel are his LoE and N9V is his execution. Granted, he hit scum, but SK at that point is looking for scum just as avidly as town and the way he went about it leaves me distinctly uneasy. That was the first time he mentioned N9V except for once where he quotes him for his theory discussion. I'll go back to that big post later, as there's something interesting Zindie caught there.

Yes, I caught scum.

The way I went about it? I made a clear analysis. I don't see how that is scummy. It's not different from things I've done before. Besides, by executing N9V I stuck my head out. Livingod was the vote leader at that point, an easy execution. By killing N9V I put myself down as someone who doesn't necessarily follow popular opinion, something the Mafia doesn't really like.

By the way you went about it, I mean the opacity of your reasoning to the rest of the town. The only post where you really elaborated on any opinions/suspicions you had was the final one, and you didn't even leave time for the rest of the town to react to your thoughts. We could have got some useful information out of that, but once N9V had been executed there was no way any scum would risk protecting him. As is evident with Primate. Your methods do not feel pro-town to me.

April 4: Zindie makes this post:

]I think Kison, Battle Mage and Raffles would all be reasonable executions for the day.

Shall we have another look at his LoE? N9V he executed and came up scum. Tosater Strudel was elephanted at night. Cephrir's still alive. Bm he has found scummy consistently through the game, but frankly, BM looks no different here to when he was town in other games. I know Zindaras has indicated he will not try and metagame him yet, but it still smells opportunistic.

The fact that BM looks no different to you says squat. You have no info confirming BM as town. I am consistent in my suspicion of BM.

Kison I can also agree with, having just previously fosed him myself, but where on earth did raffles come from and where did Kison go? Again, no reasoning provided. Then suddenly, today

I want everyone to give their opinions on Battle Mage, Cephirir and MoS.

I can see the progression here, so this is not as important.

There were reasons behind all of them, which will be posted later.

Next, there's a trend. I will not quote posts for this section, beacuse I would need to quote far too many, but look for yourself: when Zindie defends himself, he only mentions the possibility of him being carthaginian and not the SK, but when he attacks (specifically Livingod), he mentions the possiblity of an SK.

The only time I ever mentioned the possibility of an SK on someone else was, if I remember correctly, livingod. I don't exactly see how that's odd. He's been useless, which is an SK-tell. He has several points for him not being Mafia, which an SK usually isn't. Which is one out of, what, nine suspicions I've voiced? Also, you seriously expect people to defend themselves from an accusation of being scum by proving they're not an SK? How many people that have been attacked in this game have attempted to prove they're not an SK?

Catching SKs is an entirely different thing from catching Mafia. Therefore, the tells, the arguments, are entirely different from an argument about being Mafia. The arguments I used to defend myself were arguments against being Mafia, because they are the clearest (see the connection between N9V and me).

Anyway, so that's my thoughts on Zindaras. I think his erraticness about his suspicions and his quietness about his reasoning, while still having that reasoning there is indicative of him being SK.

Exactly why do these indicate SKness?

I was unclear here: they don't indicate SKness, they indicate anti-townness: however, I do not believe you are scum with ~N9V~ so I believe you to be SK, especially with your "foresight" into the flavour of the SK.

[Shanba]

Don't really have much to add to Shanba's analysis except that I do not see how it is possible to come to his conclsion. If MoS is scum, why did all the scum support him and give themselves away? In my opinion, scum should try to aim for balance, not inbalance.

Do you believe then that 2 scum on a wagon for tribune indicates that the player being wagoned is pro-town? And that the other players on the wagon are pro-town?[quote="TheEyeOfMordor]
I think the chances are higher that if MoS is Town, then I am scum. Besides, BM said that one of us was scum, so obviously if MoS is Town then I must be scum.[/quote]
False dilemna and an appeal to authority besides being just simply dumb.


Can we have a round of major prods please?

[Zindaras]

Knowing the theme of the game you are playing well is completely different from identifying the flavour of the serial killer. Especially if, as you now say, the flavour of the kills wasn't even posted day 1. Guessing that there were elephant(s) in the setup has little to do with your knowledge of the punic wars. Simply stating it says nothing is not enough, at least to my mind.

The elephants are probably one of the most defining things in the Punic Wars. Everyone knows the stories about Hannibal's elephants. The strategies employed by the Carthaginians to use the elephants, and later, by the Romans, against them. Besides, we were specifically talking about the flavour of other alignments. I don't see how being right about that is so odd.

In the next post mentioning elephants he insinuates that he knew that the kill was elpehantine. While this may be the case, and I strongly suspect it is, he never explicitly said it day 1, instead calling the idea of an elephant mafia awesome. So he's contradicted himself slightly there. Then finally, his last post he clearly indicates that he thinks it's an SK and not a mafia, as he implied in his first post.

It was something I had put in my mind a while before and I thought I had posted about it.

By the way you went about it, I mean the opacity of your reasoning to the rest of the town. The only post where you really elaborated on any opinions/suspicions you had was the final one, and you didn't even leave time for the rest of the town to react to your thoughts. We could have got some useful information out of that, but once N9V had been executed there was no way any scum would risk protecting him. As is evident with Primate. Your methods do not feel pro-town to me.

That's how I always work when I fall behind in games. I make some big analysis, post it, and go on. I also have already explained why I executed someone on the spot. I had expected more discussion, so I did it there so the execution could be vetoed and we still had the chance for another execution.

Also, this point is one that says I'm Mafia. An SK doesn't have a different way of execution than a Townie.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Who do you want prodded, Consul Shanba Morsvacca?

[Shanba]

Off the top of my head and the front page
Ubertimmy, cephrir, rand althor, occult and twito

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Done. I like how you only capitalized the first letter of the one name that doesn't actually start with a capital while all the others do.

[Shanba]

>.>
<.<
It was deliberate. Honestly.
Alright. My preliminary LoE includes MoS and TEOM (it would have Zindaras but that seems silly somehow).
I'll respond to zindie again tomorrow.

[Battle Mage]

i like that LoE Shanba

Vote: TEOM

as the preferably execution today however.
BM

[Zindaras]

Shanba, you either need (new) glasses or you're outright trying to avoid the most blindingly obvious candidate ever.

[Battle Mage]

who are you talking about now?
not me i hope?
or do

yo

u mean yourself?

Shanba, you either need (new) glasses or you're outright trying to avoid the most blindingly obvious candidate ever.

[Occult]

Vote BM

for execution

I'm still not feeling BM.

[Rand Althor]

I agree with the BM execution.

[Battle Mage]

either of

yo

u care to give a reason?

[Shanba]

Oh, I almost forgot: Add Occult to that list.
And Zindie, feel free to add or remove players from my list as you will.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I must ask you to cease these crimes against humanity, Battle Mage. I will not tolerate this kind of language.

[Battle Mage]

lol i had noticed that you had grammar-checked my post.

I must ask you to cease these crimes against humanity, Battle Mage. I will not tolerate this kind of language.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That's the whole TEOM section. The basic premise of this section was this: there was a vote count showing two scum voting you for tribune. I remembered that I had been suspicious of your interactions with TEOM already, so I went through and isolated what I thought was suspicious. I saw two scum and one person who I feel has a connection to you voting for you.

TEOM had lurked a bit during the game and hadn't really said anything I felt was pro-town so I found your vote for him interesting. I don't understand that you can be that sure enough of his pro-townness to vote him tribune and then be swayed in your opinion by one odd action. In fact, I reckon it's more likely that he is your scumbuddy and that you changed your mind on him when it became apparent that he wasn't going to live up to the pro-town ideal you needed from him.

Did you then fail to notice that the only reason I supported TEOM as a tribune candidate was because everyone else was either a lurker, replacement, Consul, or completely scummy to me? TEOM and Raffles were the only two people at the time that did not fall into any of those categories. Even though TEOM was slightly scummy (not anywhere near the top of my list enough to worry about, though), he was the best choice I had. I gave him a chance with my vote, and he acted even scummier, so I don't trust him with it anymore.

Besides all that, you failed to even acknowledge the original point: two out of four people voting you for tribune mid day 1 were scum.

And your theory is that Day 1 is so important to scum that they decided to risk it and all vote scumbuddy MoS for tribune? And if I was one of their scumbuddies, why didn't I try to come up with a reason to veto the N9V execution?

Now, MoS has also been on BM's case the whole game. In his case, I have seen him do it elsewhere, but I do not understand why this makes him scum this game. Noone has provided a real case against BM except his poor logic, which with BM is a given. So I find this opportunistic too.

BM's poor logic is more than enough reason to execute him, to be honest, in any game. If he's scum, he does a damn good job of distracting and disorienting the town, and if he's protown, then he does a horrible job of helping the town get anywhere useful, and does the scum's work for them. As a result, no scum would ever want to kill him, so we have to lynch him if we're ever going to have peace of mind and be able to concentrate on actually finding scum. That's not to mention the fact that he COULD very well be scum.

Day 1 you indicated that you didn't think BM should be executed simply because his logic was crap. I don't believe he should be executed simply because his logic is crap, because I believe him to be pro-town and every pro-town player is an extra warm body.

On Day 1, no. I've given BM leeway for his craplogic, but he's far too detrimental to the town's operation in general to leave alive for too long like this. I don't want to get to endgame and have a protowner execute a townie BM because he's been acting so goddamned scummy all game and we gave him a free ride because that's how he always acts. But on Day 1, I'm willing to give him a chance to make things right.

[Rand Althor]

Well I am thinking BM is the way to go today I don't like how he tried to push himself as a tribune when Zindie made that joke. He seemed very defensive.

you both seem pretty eratic in your haste to lynch someone without evidence. You seem to have a close relationship, and certainly are both slightly tipsy on the power.
actually, i will Unvote, Vote: Raffles for Tribune
BM

Quite eratic voting for tribune here.

well, you werent attacking me. In Mafia, its a rare occassion worth celebrating.

Very bad resoning (maybe voting for a scummate)

cheers dude. I highly doubt the reason is cop related, as if a cop had visited me, they would have spotted that i was protown.
Raffles, mind if we switch over?
Unvote, Vote Battle Mage for Tribune

BM, here sees that the move to get his scum mate on the tribune isn't working, but when NV9 votes for him he switches pretty fast. (Note NV9 was scum)

seeing as my wagon lost steam...

Unvote, Vote: Raffles

Ah back to scummate raffles now his wagon is over.

can we even be sure this is a protown role? i mean it could be a scum role that is used to protect their own...
BM

Tries to put suspision on Panzer.

but lets just say the consulmaker picked one or BOTH scum as consuls. What does that make you? well, either scum, or someone easy to manipulate. From your claims you obviously do not consider yourself to be the latter, so odds are that you are scum if either of them are.
The idea of a tribune is someone to keep the balance between the consuls and the ordinary people. Personally i would rather put my faith in someone who was a little less 'under the thumb' as they say.
i do not have the time to go through all 85 of your games, and i do not see the relevance. I agree that you are almost certainly an EXPERIENCED player, but whether or not you are a good one remains to be seen. Everyone can have lucky guesses at who is scum. if 1 success out of 85 games is all you can offer, i have to express some doubt at your skill. However i think the best thing to do would be to wait and see for myself

Im also very concerned at the way in which Zindaras and AndrewS (the latter a little more subtly) seem to be sucking up to Raffles. this is probably not a scum tell-more of a greed-tell, but i still think it should be noted.

BM

Here he tries to push suspision on the consuls and a popular choice for tribune (suspision of the consuls was good)

everyone knows that i am the easiest Day 1 lynch on the entire site, because very few people like me, and even less consider me of value to the town. I am now very suspicious of those who use this tactic of "lets get BM off early. Even when he comes up town, no1 will miss him".
It is especially scummy when young players do it.
BM

Ah one of those pity the Noob statements classic scum.

actually, im not sure. Some people have said that they think i look scummy, but quite frankly, i get that in all my games. I wouldnt say it was anything out of the ordinary. I maintain that those who campaign for me the hardest are probably scum themselves.

Again with the I'm always scummy defence
BM is the best decision today

Vote:BM

^There.

[Zindaras]

And your theory is that Day 1 is so important to scum that they decided to risk it and all vote scumbuddy MoS for tribune? And if I was one of their scumbuddies, why didn't I try to come up with a reason to veto the N9V execution?

Primate says hi. This is not an argument.

[Battle Mage]

ah. allow me to pick the flaws in this again

Me voting myself for tribune was understandable, for reasons already outlined by other players.
I highly doubt that N9V scum would be so obvious as to vote his buddy for tribune. be realistic.
is raffles proven scum? i dont think so, thus your argument is immensely flawed...

basically, the reason you think i am scum, is because:
1. I wasnt sure who to vote for tribune on Day 1.
2. I was acting like a noob early on in the game.
3. You think Raffles is scum.

Nice going Poirot...

BM

Well I am thinking BM is the way to go today I don't like how he tried to push himself as a tribune when Zindie made that joke. He seemed very defensive.

you both seem pretty eratic in your haste to lynch someone without evidence. You seem to have a close relationship, and certainly are both slightly tipsy on the power.
actually, i will Unvote, Vote: Raffles for Tribune
BM

Quite eratic voting for tribune here.

well, you werent attacking me. In Mafia, its a rare occassion worth celebrating.

Very bad resoning (maybe voting for a scummate)

cheers dude. I highly doubt the reason is cop related, as if a cop had visited me, they would have spotted that i was protown.
Raffles, mind if we switch over?
Unvote, Vote Battle Mage for Tribune

BM, here sees that the move to get his scum mate on the tribune isn't working, but when NV9 votes for him he switches pretty fast. (Note NV9 was scum)

seeing as my wagon lost steam...

Unvote, Vote: Raffles

Ah back to scummate raffles now his wagon is over.

can we even be sure this is a protown role? i mean it could be a scum role that is used to protect their own...
BM

Tries to put suspision on Panzer.

but lets just say the consulmaker picked one or BOTH scum as consuls. What does that make you? well, either scum, or someone easy to manipulate. From your claims you obviously do not consider yourself to be the latter, so odds are that you are scum if either of them are.
The idea of a tribune is someone to keep the balance between the consuls and the ordinary people. Personally i would rather put my faith in someone who was a little less 'under the thumb' as they say.
i do not have the time to go through all 85 of your games, and i do not see the relevance. I agree that you are almost certainly an EXPERIENCED player, but whether or not you are a good one remains to be seen. Everyone can have lucky guesses at who is scum. if 1 success out of 85 games is all you can offer, i have to express some doubt at your skill. However i think the best thing to do would be to wait and see for myself

Im also very concerned at the way in which Zindaras and AndrewS (the latter a little more subtly) seem to be sucking up to Raffles. this is probably not a scum tell-more of a greed-tell, but i still think it should be noted.

BM

Here he tries to push suspision on the consuls and a popular choice for tribune (suspision of the consuls was good)

everyone knows that i am the easiest Day 1 lynch on the entire site, because very few people like me, and even less consider me of value to the town. I am now very suspicious of those who use this tactic of "lets get BM off early. Even when he comes up town, no1 will miss him".
It is especially scummy when young players do it.
BM

Ah one of those pity the Noob statements classic scum.

actually, im not sure. Some people have said that they think i look scummy, but quite frankly, i get that in all my games. I wouldnt say it was anything out of the ordinary. I maintain that those who campaign for me the hardest are probably scum themselves.

Again with the I'm always scummy defence
BM is the best decision today

Vote:BM

^There.

[TheEyeOfMordor]

BM, I am pretty sure that some Consul(whether scum or not) will execute you at some point. I am also sure that if somebody intends to execute you, now is the time to do it while we still have breathing space.
About Shanba's last TEOM post, the part with BM was semi sarcasm, like a lot of my other BM posts. As far as I could see, your points were directed there.
My current stand is that that BM is probably town. That still doesn't change the fact that his play hasn't been all that good. And that he probably will get executed, and should be executed ATM if he is to be lynched for bad play and logic. The problem here is that even though BM likely is Town, I wouldn't trust his endgame play. It is likely to destroy us. I think that an endgame without BM is preferable to one with him. Now I would like him to explain why he shouldn't be executed, and put forth good arguments, like I think I have done.

Vote: BM

[Battle Mage]

ROFLMAO.
TEOM, i find that is the worst EVER case to execute someone. In it, you actuallly admit that i am not scummy, and in fact you feel certain that i am protown. Your choice of execution seems to be solely on the basis of your obvious dislike for me, which is ridiculous. You also appear to seek to follow popular opinion, which is "kill BM. He isn

'

t scum, but it'll be great fun to see him die".
Its also hilariously ironic that someone like you criticises my play as town, and then DELIBERATELY VOTES FOR SOMEBODY THEY THINK IS TOWN.
I'll be perfectly honest-if my endgame play is weak, yours is going to be absolute **** if you continue with that sort of logic.
Here is a suggestion which might improve your gameplay here.
How about telling us who you DO think is scum, and then voting for them?
it

'

s the whole purpose of mafia, so i figure it isn

'

t too much to ask.
as for you putting forth a good defence, i don

'

t recall that. You will have to reference me to it.
In the meantime, i won

'

t be making a case for my defence, when nobody has provided a single reason in an attack...
Oh and btw, i don

'

t think my play has been all that bad. I have helped uncover 2 likely scumbuddies. If the rest of the town doesn

'

t choose to execute them, that

'

s their call.
BM

[Cephrir]

In the meantime, i won't be making a case for my defence, when nobody has provided a single reason in an attack...

There are plenty of reasons to execute you throughout this thread. A lot of points have been made against you, and you know it. Here's a question for you: Why should you NOT be executed? The only excuse you have is 'I always play this way', and while that may be true, it doesn't make you look any more protown. Please actually answer that question BTW.

Oh and btw, i don't think my play has been all that bad. I have helped uncover 2 likely scumbuddies. If the rest of the town doesn't choose to execute them, that's their call.

Please stop assuming you are always right. It's annoying.

[TheEyeOfMordor]

I think I defended myself very well Day 2 for instance. If you disagree explain why.
And I have deliberately voted for myself as Town for instance, if I feel that my position is weak and that my living only helps the scum. That is my feeling about you. The longer you survive the better it is for the scum.
My endgame play isn't really all that tested as Town, the only Town endgame I have been in was Ben and Jerry's and I had a terrible role there. All of my other endgames I have been scum. But I definately feel that I trust my endgame play more then I do yours. I must assume that you disagree...
+ I am not certain that you are protown, as you put it. That is misrepresentating me.