In this post you built up a theory in which OkaPoka, shinyskarmory and Boonskies were all suspect for asking about the mechanics of Grib's role.In post 121, massive wrote:If you're town, the mechanics of Grib's role DON'T MATTER. If you're scum, you need to know how high in the nightkill pecking order he needs to be.
That, to me, makes the scum Oka / shiny / Boon. My problem now is that I start to see connections between them (see shiny's Post #63 where Grib's voting pattern is suspicious but Boon's first-post bandwagoning "might be noob town", Boon voting for Oka but later saying it's "not a strong [feeling of scumminess]") -- but that's immaterial.
When you guys decide you want to run one of them up, I'm witcha.
Meaning what?In post 323, bjc wrote:No because I'm not an idiot.In post 317, Tattletale wrote:Would you say your panic about being the focus of a wagon was genuine? In context, your soft-claim looks like a knee-jerk reaction to coming under the smallest amount of pressure.In post 311, bjc wrote:Okay. I'm a VT.
I was honestly hoping to get NK'd last night but I guess they didn't believe my hint, haha.
By the way, today may not be the day for this, but the double hammer that was discussed D1 may be worth doing at some point. It effectively gives the town an extra lynch. It has to be done on a day with an odd number of players, and the later we wait the more likely it is Grib will be shot (if town).In post 326, Formerfish wrote:Vote Count 2.5
Fat_Tony- bjc
Boonskiies- Grib, Fat_Tony, Octopus (L-2)
theelkspeaks- Drew-Sta
massive- Tattletale, Boonskiies, Grib (L-2)
Not Voting: massive, theelkspeaks
I'm more worried about bjc's infatuation with hammering. I have ISO'd you again and do think there's a link between you and ILF (TT).In post 316, Boonskiies wrote:Grib has that second vote he could easily put on me. Not so sure I'm scum now, are you boys and girls?!!?!?!!?
In post 321, Grib wrote:Bussing is a thing.In post 319, Tattletale wrote:I appreciate this, because I was looking at you as a possible massive partner based on his choice to unvote you on page 12.This looks like you are happy to lynch him instead of yourself, which would imply you are not partners.
Your ISO seems to have no end of odd mistakes in it, all the same.
Boonskiies is just latching onto other people's reads. He claims his two scumreads are bjc and Fat_Tony, does absolutely fuck all to push for their lynch, and then votes massive. Granted, the "massive accidentally killed Shinobi" scenario makes sense, but it still bugs me.
Man I love having two votes.In post 320, Tattletale wrote:Hider is a 2-shot role that dies when targeting scum. He died, on a night when there were two kills. I would expect him to use one of the shots. He would have crumbed his strongest suspect and then tested them.In post 318, Grib wrote:Walk me through the "obvious" part. Make the discussion happen.
Second Vote: massive
Hey massive. What say you.
The bolded I agree with, Grib. What do you think of what I have posted?In post 322, massive wrote:Optimal hider play is to hide with someone they think town, not that they think scum. They generally aren't TRYING to get killed. That was my first thought of the day and unfortunately Shinobi's only contribution to who might be town was ILF "because gut." That's another notch against ILF (sorry, Tattlerale) but wasn't anywhere near conclusive enough to bring up. In any event, I figure I'm actually the LAST person Shinobi's would hide with.
I'm less inclined to go back to night immediately as well, but it isIn post 333, Fat_Tony wrote:Situation - wait, first; UNVOTE:
Situation - bjc is behaving actively anti-town, will never get NK'd unless there's a vig, and even then seems just as likely to flip town as scum because his play is always this horrible from what I read about him.
You know what? I actually believe Boon is town. Sort of. I believe he COULD be town. I've unvoted. Drew, if you still want to vote for Boon, there's your chance. I have no intention of pushing anyone to L-1 with so long left before deadline, barring a solid scumslip.
If we can't find consensus pre-DL, bjc is assuredly the best last-minute lynch. He is either least valuable townie or scum - so we either win, or lose as little as possible. We should bear this in mind if the day goes late.
Ok, just curious as to whether it was a time limited ability..In post 296, Grib wrote:@Octopus
Yes. One vote. I'm trying to be careful about other people hammering. We have so much to discuss, no?
So you didn't bother to find out what a Hider does, or maybe you just didn't care?In post 298, Boonskiies wrote:If I get lynched today, and flip town, might I add, scum will get another kill in the night,and there's either a Vig or an SK in this game, as two people died in the night last night.I die, I flip town. Then scum kills a town member. that leaves the vote count 3 scum, 4 town. BUT WAIT!!!!!!! There's another night kill happening. If that last night kill goes wrong, that's 3 scum, to 3 town, and game over.
post 200 looks a lot like you coaching ILF, just sayin'.In post 283, massive wrote: (not to mention #73 now reads A LOT like ILF coaching Boon)
QFT
In other news, I really don't understand why people come onto this board to play this game but spend game days going "I have no reads" or "I'm better after a lynch" and not participating. What's the point of even playing then?
Asking for an unforced claim is more helpful to scum than town, IMHO.In post 308, Tattletale wrote: bjc also needs to claim NOW after that #YOLO hammer. I do not abide soft claims.
I don't like this.In post 287, theelkspeaks wrote:Tattletales, willing to comment on your predecessor's play?
In post 284, Boonskiies wrote: God fucking damn. How many times do I have to say? I can think people are scum without thinking they're scummy. Now I'm thinking Fat/Octopus are scum buddies for lack of paying attention to what people are actually saying, and just wanting the lynch. Puts me at L-1. Pfft.
How come I fell off your scumdar?In post 300, Boonskiies wrote:Fat Tony and Bjc are my scum reads. If I was scum, I would have tried to make a wagon on one of my scum brethren to try and get a lynch on them, and then it would seemingly clear my name. I even have done that in one of my most recent games.
How would it out the scum? An NK is an information barrier, withoutIn post 325, Grib wrote:@massive
Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say Hiding with possible scum to out them isdefinitelyworth trading your life for. Hiding with a townread is useless, unless they turn out to be scum.
I highly doubt Shinobi chose to Hide with shinyskarmory, which means Shinobi Hid with scum. Based on Shinobi's post, the FoS falls heavily on you.
This would be hard to pull off with "the jolly hammerer" in town.In post 331, Tattletale wrote: By the way, today may not be the day for this, but the double hammer that was discussed D1 may be worth doing at some point. It effectively gives the town an extra lynch. It has to be done on a day with an odd number of players, and the later we wait the more likely it is Grib will be shot (if town).
You now think that Boon is town?In post 281, Fat_Tony wrote:(Had I noticed this, I would have unvoted btw)
Theory - exactly one of Octopus and Boon is scum. If I ever get chance to reread d1 I'll work out who.
But therein lies the problem. I DON'T think it implicates you. I bring it up because it's the only thing he said about really any other player besides me, and even that wasn't well-formed. As I mentioned immediately following his vote on me (and I've mentioned more than once in reference to Octopus), I'll be really curious at the end to know what the heck it is in #200 that's either super-scummy or makes people want to misread / misinterpret it.In post 327, Tattletale wrote:massive, if you chose not to bring it into the discussion, despite allegedly believing it might implicate me (one of your suspects), then I think a more likely hypothesis is that you felt it would be dangerous to discuss.
Do I read this to say that Boon is NOT acting scummy, that I should NOT be focusing my attention on him, that there should NOT be five or six people who say they are willing to vote for him?In post 328, Tattletale wrote:You have nevertheless continued working through those three names, albeit coming up with new reasons to do so. This implies to me that the targets of your "scumhunting" were premeditated on day 1.
My post #121. The quote you are referencing is in Octopus's post #117. And the answer is, I don't know. Either I didn't see it up above the fluffy bits in that post, or it didn't resonate as potentially scummy because Octopus had just replaced into the game and looked like he was actively scumhunting (see the three posts from 117 up to my post 121). I also didn't call out ILF for her silly "oooh so THAT'S why Grib is double-voting" comment in #113, but I suspect you don't want me to comment on that.In post 328, Tattletale wrote:What makes this even more exciting is that you entirely leave out Octopus, who asked Grib about his role only a few posts above your own.
Well I guess I should be happy I've gone from "forgiv[ing] blatant self-contradiction" (#246) to just coaching. The crappy part about #200 is, now that ILF has been replaced, we'll never get good answers on the legitimate questions in that post.In post 337, Octopus wrote:post 200 looks a lot like you coaching ILF, just sayin'.
O RLY?In post 333, Fat_Tony wrote:Situation - wait, first; UNVOTE:
Situation - bjc is behaving actively anti-town, will never get NK'd unless there's a vig, and even then seems just as likely to flip town as scum because his play is always this horrible from what I read about him.
Why, hello, doubtcast.In post 337, Octopus wrote:How would it out the scum? An NK is an information barrier, withouta prioriknowledge of who the hider's target was then the reason for their death can only be speculation, it's equally as probable that they targeted the NK as they did scum.
Without knowing Shinobi's motivation in hiding, you really can't say who he would have targeted, if he chose to hide for his own survival then I would have listed shinysk as a good choice, from his participation I wouldn't have thought he would be a particularly likely NK target. Then again, why would Shinobi have thought he would be targeted?
I hate this post. If your ability could potentially out scum, the optimal town play is to try to die. Our wincon is to kill scum, not ensure every townie's survival.In post 322, massive wrote:Optimal hider play is to hide with someone they think town, not that they think scum. They generally aren't TRYING to get killed. That was my first thought of the day and unfortunately Shinobi's only contribution to who might be town was ILF "because gut." That's another notch against ILF (sorry, Tattlerale) but wasn't anywhere near conclusive enough to bring up. In any event, I figure I'm actually the LAST person Shinobi's would hide with.
No you haven'tIn post 338, massive wrote: Well I guess I should be happy I've gone from "forgiv[ing] blatant self-contradiction" (#246) to just coaching.
In 333: I say I think he COULD be town. I can see a world in which that is the case. I need to read through to ascertain if this is indeed that world.In post 337, Octopus wrote:Ok, just curious as to whether it was a time limited ability..In post 296, Grib wrote:@Octopus
Yes. One vote. I'm trying to be careful about other people hammering. We have so much to discuss, no?
So you didn't bother to find out what a Hider does, or maybe you just didn't care?In post 298, Boonskiies wrote:If I get lynched today, and flip town, might I add, scum will get another kill in the night,and there's either a Vig or an SK in this game, as two people died in the night last night.I die, I flip town. Then scum kills a town member. that leaves the vote count 3 scum, 4 town. BUT WAIT!!!!!!! There's another night kill happening. If that last night kill goes wrong, that's 3 scum, to 3 town, and game over.
Ok there is a slim possibility of there being a vig or sk, but it's unlikely given what we know.
post 200 looks a lot like you coaching ILF, just sayin'.In post 283, massive wrote: (not to mention #73 now reads A LOT like ILF coaching Boon)QFT
In other news, I really don't understand why people come onto this board to play this game but spend game days going "I have no reads" or "I'm better after a lynch" and not participating. What's the point of even playing then?
To be honest though I'm now less inclined towards ILF/TT being scum. TT's posts are looking good at this point, it may have been ILF's level of play that was ringing bells, but that said I don't like this.
Asking for an unforced claim is more helpful to scum than town, IMHO.In post 308, Tattletale wrote: bjc also needs to claim NOW after that #YOLO hammer. I do not abide soft claims.
I don't like this.In post 287, theelkspeaks wrote:Tattletales, willing to comment on your predecessor's play?
In post 284, Boonskiies wrote: God fucking damn. How many times do I have to say? I can think people are scum without thinking they're scummy. Now I'm thinking Fat/Octopus are scum buddies for lack of paying attention to what people are actually saying, and just wanting the lynch. Puts me at L-1. Pfft.How come I fell off your scumdar?In post 300, Boonskiies wrote:Fat Tony and Bjc are my scum reads. If I was scum, I would have tried to make a wagon on one of my scum brethren to try and get a lynch on them, and then it would seemingly clear my name. I even have done that in one of my most recent games.
I didn't post anything between, what changed your mind?
How would it out the scum? An NK is an information barrier, withoutIn post 325, Grib wrote:@massive
Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say Hiding with possible scum to out them isdefinitelyworth trading your life for. Hiding with a townread is useless, unless they turn out to be scum.
I highly doubt Shinobi chose to Hide with shinyskarmory, which means Shinobi Hid with scum. Based on Shinobi's post, the FoS falls heavily on you.a prioriknowledge of who the hider's target was then the reason for their death can only be speculation, it's equally as probable that they targeted the NK as they did scum.
Without knowing Shinobi's motivation in hiding, you really can't say who he would have targeted, if he chose to hide for his own survival then I would have listed shinysk as a good choice, from his participation I wouldn't have thought he would be a particularly likely NK target. Then again, why would Shinobi have thought he would be targeted?
This would be hard to pull off with "the jolly hammerer" in town.In post 331, Tattletale wrote: By the way, today may not be the day for this, but the double hammer that was discussed D1 may be worth doing at some point. It effectively gives the town an extra lynch. It has to be done on a day with an odd number of players, and the later we wait the more likely it is Grib will be shot (if town).
You now think that Boon is town?In post 281, Fat_Tony wrote:(Had I noticed this, I would have unvoted btw)
Theory - exactly one of Octopus and Boon is scum. If I ever get chance to reread d1 I'll work out who.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way for Shinobi to die if his target survives. When you Hide with someone, you and your target are essentially the same person for the Night. There are literally only three possibilities:In post 343, massive wrote:I have nothing further on this. None of us know Shinobi's night target and he didn't die from hiding with me. If he died because he hid with me, then it's because scum targeted me overnight and he died and I didn't.
1) I asked for your scumreads, not your life story. You're claiming, but how does that relate to who you think is scum?In post 348, massive wrote:I tried valiantly to not put this information out, but I think we're getting away from finding the actual scum, so in the interest of expediency:
1. Iwasone-shot bulletproof.
2. There is the possibility I was a nightkill target, and that people going after me aggressively know that I was supposed to die and didn't die last night, and think that lynching me is the only way they can get me out.
3. This means that it's possible Shinobi hid with me and died for it.
4. This also means we have a second killer.