NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[DrippingGoofball]

There are a couple of people I haven't paid close enough attention to --

Sotty

is one

2) This might be almost as bad as mandating that every sufficiently large wagon has scum on it, but I came across LML's suspicion list

LML wrote:Here's who I am leaning scum on: UT, Mathcam, STD, Sotty
Here's who I have strong scum feelings for: PJ

and have a hard time believing that he didn't put even one of his scum buddies on there. Given that I think STD is town, and we already know UT and (almost certainly) PJ, this is a strike against

Sotty

in my book.

Compute?

[Bookitty]

Bookitty also has a town read on me as far as I know.

This is correct.

[MrBuddyLee]

No, the scum on Bookitty is mathcam.

Hey Boo, do you understand why Albert is voting you?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'll save you the trouble.

Bookitty is third towniest in DGB's list. I'm third scummiest. I'm town, so if DGB's system is worth a penny, that points to Bookitty scum.

[Bookitty]

At a guess, reaction testing? There was something about one of me, VitaminR or mathcam being scum, but I didn't pay all that much attention because PoE doesn't really help me figure out who is scum.

Is it important that I understand why he's voting me?

EBWOP: Or that, I guess. I don't understand that logic, though.

[Porochaz]

The ABR votes around page 80 (where I am at) are bad, I mean his votes, not votes on him. He goes from being super aggressive and tunnel visioned to being careless with his vote.

Then there is DGB, who I have decided is scum independent of Glork. You took advantage of him. The more Im reading the more I am realising the scumputer in this game is yet another fluffy thing, just in long form for once. Im not even sure it matches with your reads. The UT argument is a good one.

Chamber and CES are really frustrating me and it makes me a sad panda. I'd quite happily vote them right now, if I thought it would get them to produce an ounce of something useful...

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote DGB

[Porochaz]

See, I don't know your read on DGB at all, like one second I think you think she is town, the next scum. Can you explain the evolution of the read on her because I just don't get it?

Also it appears that my internet has decided to pack itself in, so Im hijacking a neighbours.

[Patrick]

Looking for a Kublai Khan replacement, as he hasn't picked up his prod.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Cogito Ergo Sum (2) -- mathcam, Sotty7
Save the Dragons (5) -- SpyreX, DrippingGoofball, Green Crayons, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber
chamber (1) -- petroleumjelly
VitaminR (3) -- Yosarian2, Bookitty, undo
DrippingGoofball (1) -- Albert B. Rampage

Not voting: MrBuddyLee, Porochaz, Kublai Khan, VitaminR, Save the Dragons
17 alive, 9 to lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think she's scum, Porochaz.

[Porochaz]

Have you considered her scum all game?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Scummy yes, scum, not every moment of the game, no.

[chamber]

Vote prozac

[Sotty7]

Sotty, you seem to have had a solid townread on ABR all game.. I skimmed his recent game as scum and don't really have a solid grasp on the difference between townABR and scumABR. How would he look different as scum? Does the fact that he doesn't seem to be reading the game consistently carefully and that he's sloppy with details mean anything to you? I feel like people have reminded him of his suspicions or about logical inconsistencies in his arguments a few times and he's corrected course, but the inattention bothers me a bit. Feels a bit like a skimmer.

The details is a little strange, but this game is so bogged down, I'm honestly not surprised to see it happen with him considering his off the cuff style of posting.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=37174 This is most of the reasoning for my ABR town read. In this game he wagoned with the noticeable easy lynch early day one and became extremely disinterested with the game. He was passionless, not the ABR I grown used to. I started with a town read on him letting him be "ABR" for day one, but that changed quickly as his bland posting continued during the second day. He was eventually lynched but not before replacing out which might temper the read a little. But in this game he seems invested, he cares. He's posting in a way that rings as genuine for me at least. I think he is town.

[DrippingGoofball]

But in this game he seems invested, he cares.

By

"invested"

and

"cares"

do you mean

"complete lack of attention to game details?"

if the answer is 'yes' I'll agree with you.

[DrippingGoofball]

Vote prozac

Not that I don't totally agree with this, but reasons?

[chamber]

Vote prozac

Not that I don't totally agree with this, but reasons?

I didn't like that he was willing to play skype mafia rather than fret about the deadline yesterDay, as I already brought up.

This one is harder to explain but his recent posts don't sound like they are scumhunting as much as that hes looking for things he can critique or comment about?

[Yosarian2]

I basically agree with Yos on StD. I think MBL's case is kinda convincing, but I just have a hard time moving past the strong town feeling I get from his posts.

What kind of failscum tries to derail a competing wagon with a credible case?

VitaminR is town.

Meh. We can lynch CES today instead, if you want.

unvote:VitimanR

vote:CES

I'm telling you, though, you should not be on the STD wagon. I really think he's going to flip town.

[mathcam]

ABR: Serious question: Do you consciously OMGUS vote everyone who votes for you as a psychological ploy to attempt to disincentivize voting for you?

OMGUS? Correct me if I'm wrong, I voted VitaminR when he had a townread on me. Bookitty also has a town read on me as far as I know.

My bad. I misunderstood BooKitty's "OMGUS allbert" comment.

Compute?

I hardly call that "looking at Sotty", in the sense that that argument against Sotty can be made without even looking at one of her posts.

@mathcam, why did you avoid commenting on my STD case? If STD is on your "never lynch" list and I'm on your "ok to lynch" list, I'd think you'd have something to say about my attempt to ring him up.

Yeah, I probably should've done that. I guess I didn't think my input was necessary. I thought you made a pretty decent argument which I'll even admit to causing me to waver on my STD stance. Then he responded, and the response felt pretty good to me too. Net score: Slight town boost for you, maybe a slight scum boost for STD, but not enough to rock the foundation of my stance on either of you.

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote: chamber
Vote: DrippingGoofball

[Porochaz]

Scummy yes, scum, not every moment of the game, no.

Hmm, my thoughts of your inconsistencies with DGB are not as big as I thought. I am not particularly happy that you decided to take her analysis "deal" as golden. (before the scumputer) However you do seem to think she is scummy after a certain point, and haven't moved yourself from that position but your theories on vitr, mathcam and bookie made me think you had abandoned your suspicions on DGB.

I have noticed in this reread though that the opposite is true in that DGB's read on ABR seems to vary massively.

Anyway, at page 80, I was thinking there was no good reason why I wasn't voting DGB.

There is a lot of aspects of her play that don't add up well, which I have discussed previously. Things like the scumputer and the analysis post seem to only appear when she has suspicion mounting against her and judging by her initial vote on mathcam and her lack of suspicion on sotty she doesn't have much faith in the results herself.

[Porochaz]

bleh,

vote dgb

[MrBuddyLee]

@VitR

, what changed between:

Also, I'd totally lynch undo.

Of course his long-awaited analysis post lands him on the wagon du jour... Just like it did I'm Bookitty Day One.

I agree with Glork on undo, though.

and

That undo wagon grew rapidly out of nowhere and doesn't seem based on very much.

MBL, I think you also asked for my opinion of undo. It's not like I have strong reasons for thinking he's town,

I just don't think he's done anything particularly scummy.

Why did you agree with Glork about undo being a good lynch if undo hadn't done anything particularly scummy?

I also noted that D1 you didn't unvote LML and vote PJ until immediately after Glork defended LML and put PJ on his short lynchlist. Looks a little suck-uppity, which is bizarre considering Glork was a suspect of yours.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

1) How many times have you seen the scumputer used before?
2) Do you believe it is accurate or not?
3) Do you think that players who have not seen it before are more likely or less likely to respond to any inherent flaws they see in it?
4) Do you think that "what is the scumputer actually telling you?", "what does the average points per maxwagon imply?" "why does these players look bad when you have a group of players with the same apparent result" seems more like an attempt to undermine the scumputer or get to the bottom of all these cryptic posts DGB launched in quick succession upon the town?

1) Maybe 3 times.
2) No.
3) Yes and I also think that the way they do it can be quite informative. I think scum are more likely to talk around the fact that it points to them, whereas town will think that a reason to think less of the scumputer. Another point is the following:
4) Out of context the first and third questions seems reasonable but the second point already feels more like an attempt at obfuscation. In context, yeah, there's no way I'm interpreting those as really wanting to get to the bottom of what DGb was doing when #1871 has you explicitly saying you're "concerned that we're going to spend the next (real) day or so" trying to figure it out and there's literally an "etc." in #1874; the questions feel demonstrative rather than things you want answers to.

@CES: VitaminR has defended you and has explained why you have not defended him in the thread. Do you agree that VitaminR has presented an accurate picture of the situation?

Yes. I would also point out that the last time chamber and I played with Vitamax, we got him mislynched.