NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Bookitty]

@DGB:

Can you give me a brief rundown on the case on Sotty7? Is it just her position at the top of the charts?

Meh, I'm going to try to allot time this afternoon to do a real reread on her. But if anyone can explain it to me, I'd appreciate it.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yosarian is scum for:

(1) Trusting PJ's "meta" on Sotty based on observation of a single game; remember that PJ also tried to "meta" me based on a single game earlier.
(2) We all know meta is crap, who would actually rely on someone else's "meta" proclamations to begin with... and without checking? Not that double-checking makes "meta" anymore reliable.
(3) PJs reads are bad so it's a great place for scum to hide behind.

[DrippingGoofball]

I would go with the DGB lynch over Sotty7

I HATE YOU

[DrippingGoofball]

I feel like DGB is playing precisely in line with my town-meta of her; in past games in which she has flipped scum, she has been more strategic (see Mafia 70 Traditional) and more hesitant in making firm stands. She also doesn't bring out the Scumputer so early in my experience. TownDGB is an assertive and aggressive advocate of her own opinions, right or wrong.

Sotty7 seems to me to be overwhelmed with the sheer amount of reading required in this game. I accused her earlier of not even reading the game, but I think I was probably wrong. I think it's just difficult for people to keep up and keep things straight. This is a gut read, but I think it's as valid as anyone else's gut read being used to vote her.

How can you make such an affirmation that I am town (which is correct), make a bunch of excuses for Sotty7 being "overwhelmed" and say you'd lynch me before Sotty7????????????????

Because you're wrong about Sotty7.

You are saying that deadline looming, you'd hammer the townie over the scumbag. Good to know.

[Bookitty]

How are you so sure that Sotty7 is scum compared with, say, VitaminR for whom I'm currently voting? Because I don't see it, myself. I'm asking you to explain it to me like I'm five.

I'm NOT HAPPY with the two choices currently available. I would vote CES over either of you too, just based on lack of participation and worries that he's lurkscum coasting to the end of the game on chamber's coat tails.

Actually, my vote is doing precisely nothing where it is. I want to go a third way.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

[Sotty7]

Sotty7 seems to me to be overwhelmed with the sheer amount of reading required in this game. I accused her earlier of not even reading the game, but I think I was probably wrong. I think it's just difficult for people to keep up and keep things straight. This is a gut read, but I think it's as valid as anyone else's gut read being used to vote her.

This is very true.

How can you make such an affirmation that I am town (which is correct), make a bunch of excuses for Sotty7 being "overwhelmed" and say you'd lynch me before Sotty7????????????????

Because you're wrong about Sotty7.

You are saying that deadline looming, you'd hammer the townie over the scumbag. Good to know.

This is still not a case.

I can't defend myself against the scumputer. It's extremely unfair. Give me something to talk about.

[DrippingGoofball]

I can't defend myself against the scumputer.

OK, no scumputer.

At least one of you/STD/mathcam is scum. Those are LML's words. And it's pretty much an undisputable fact that he put some scum in his scum list.

The scum is not mathcam.

Therefore it's down to you and STD.

I tried to present you as the townie, and make you choose STD. You wouldn't.

So my theory is that both you and STD are scum (with Yosarian/Porochaz/KK). You guys are one man down, and neither of you is willing to bus. You two should be voting each other. You're not.

You're both scum.

mathcam's association game also points to you.

And to get back to the scumputer... the scumputer supports you & STD scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Bookitty

Was the above simple enough?

[Bookitty]

Yes. I agree with these points:

Mathcam is not scum. His recent postings make that pretty clear.
I don't have meta for LML, but I buy the idea that he would put some actual scum in his scumlist for flavouring. That seems normal scum play.

I still think CES is more likely to be scum, but I retract my statement about voting you over Sotty7.

[DrippingGoofball]

I buy the idea that he would put some actual scum in his scumlist for flavouring. That seems normal scum play.

Great! So one of STD/Sotty is scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

Or both.

[VitaminR]

unless someone wants to lynch Yos, which I would also be up for.

Are you sure you're not scum? Because your only case on me was your scummy echoing of chamber's confused question, and the fact that you didn't like that I was attacking you earlier today. When you do naked OMGUS like this, it really just makes me want to lynch you.

Oh, you're going to pretend this is scummy too? I don't care if it comes off OMGUSy, but I've always found it superuseful to look at people voting me, because I know they're attacking a townie. None of the attacks on me stood out that much until your late-to-the-game hyperaggressive attack. It read insincere to me and a lot of your arguments were a stretch. It really felt like you saw that there was plenty of support for a wagon on me and decided to try to put the final nail in the coffin by just throwing a whole bunch of arguments at me, hoping that some would stick.

You seem far more interested in simplistically using buzzwords like "OMGUS" and "buddying", both of which can be applied to a range of behaviors exhibited both by town and scum, to smear me than in actually trying to understand my reactions and mindset.

[VitaminR]

In Georgetown II I spent a fair deal of time reading (and rereading) Sotty7's posts, being concerned in particular with (i) how she defended scum, (ii) how her play appeared to be coasting and (iii) how her play was potentially ingratiating towards a few select players while being selectively dismissive towards others.

Levels of aggression vary depending on the strength of the reads involved, and I believe that is the case here (as opposed to being an indicator of a different alignment). I believe she is honestly trying to determine alignments and her back-and-forth on views (in particular, her "wringing her hands about Save the Dragons being Town" as DrippingGoofball characterizes it) reads exceedingly genuinely. I would be

shocked

if she is scum.

Fair enough, I guess, but this is harder for me to evaluate. You see what I mean, though, right, in that she seems a bit more assertive in Georgetown? I suppose my worry is that Sotty seems like the kind of player who would exactly be cautious and back-and-forth as scum, but might be less confident.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yosarian, where would you like me to vote?

[Patrick]

Votecount

Cogito Ergo Sum (3) -- Sotty7, Yosarian2, Bookitty
Save the Dragons (2) -- SpyreX, Cogito Ergo Sum
VitaminR (1) -- undo
DrippingGoofball (3) -- petroleumjelly, Porochaz, Save the Dragons
Sotty7 (4) -- mathcam, Albert B. Rampage, DrippingGoofball, chamber

Not voting: MrBuddyLee, OhGodMyLife, VitaminR, Green Crayons
17 alive, 9 to lynch.

[Patrick]

The deadline hits on Tuesday 15th at 11pm GMT.

[Save The Dragons]

And yet the majority of your posts are directed at me.

Yea, they are, because in talking to you in a perfect world it convinces the others to help murder you.

I mean if you want me to talk about people I think are town more sure I can waste time there.

Because I'm scum and everyone else is town? Scumhunt less please.

I'd lynch DGB, CES, SpyreX. I'd be marginally interested in a few more people, but everyone else who has a vote right now I think is town.

Really? Doesn't she seem more assertive in that game? Reading up on this claim actually made me

more

suspicious of Sotty. It didn't take long for me to find posts in Georgetown II with aggressive scum reads (e.g. "such-and-such needs to die", "you're scum"), for example. She's being much more diplomatic in this game.

I skimmed her posts in that game and personally I think she's pretty much the same. For example (from this game):

DGB really needs some lynching.

Spryex should die is what he should do.

[petroleumjelly]

I feel like DGB is playing precisely in line with my town-meta of her; in past games in which she has flipped scum, she has been more strategic (see Mafia 70 Traditional) and more hesitant in making firm stands. She also doesn't bring out the Scumputer so early in my experience. TownDGB is an assertive and aggressive advocate of her own opinions, right or wrong.

I think DrippingGoofball has been 100% strategic.

When LoudmouthLee was nearing a lynch, DrippingGoofball suddenly turned into the court jester, very distracting, pushing elsewhere, claiming she would not help lynch LoudmouthLee, and drawing particular attention to LoudmouthLee's attempt to roleclaim (after saying he would not roleclaim).

At the start of Day Two -- you know, after scum have had a chance to come up with plans overnight -- she immediately goes with the "LoudmouthLee bus" theory based on LoudmouthLee's own comment and starts attacking the people who helped lynch LoudmouthLee, including Untrod Tripod (dead and town) and myself (Mason). Her other attack targets have also been bad.

You

kept bringing up the Scumputer on Day Two, and so it is no surprise that she would use it on Day Three. Note how she also used it

immediately

upon Day Three happening, after Day Two ended with a near-lynch on her as opposed to the Glork wagon. By using the Scumputer (and I would go so far as to say she might have been "nutkicked" by her scumpartners into doing so), she preempted votes on herself by trying to act useful.

DrippingGoofball's play looks completely calculated with an attempt to look random and aggressive in the hopes it is swept under the "oh, it's just DrippingGoofball being DrippingGoofball" rug.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'd say that DGB will see her swift end if she's scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'd rather lynch Sotty today. If Sotty is town, I have no problem voting DGB tomorrow.

[Sotty7]

I'm 100% town. Why am I scum ABR?

[Albert B. Rampage]

mathcam raised some excellent points which have convinced me. If there are 4 scum left, Sotty, who are they, from your perspective?

[DrippingGoofball]

DrippingGoofball's play looks completely

calculated

with an attempt to look

random

In other words, my play looks random, but your head is so far up your keister that you're interpreting your observation of random-ness as calculation? I expect some heartfelt apologies and self-humiliation from you after you see my town flip.

[DrippingGoofball]

Votecount

Cogito Ergo Sum (3) -- Sotty7, Yosarian2, Bookitty
Save the Dragons (2) -- SpyreX, Cogito Ergo Sum
VitaminR (1) -- undo
DrippingGoofball (3) -- petroleumjelly, Porochaz, Save the Dragons
Sotty7 (4) -- mathcam, Albert B. Rampage, DrippingGoofball, chamber

Not voting: MrBuddyLee, OhGodMyLife, VitaminR, Green Crayons
17 alive, 9 to lynch.

Sotty7 wagon 100% town.
2 scums on my wagon (obv, Porochaz & STD)
Yosarianscum is voting CEStown.
OGMLscum isn't voting.

I think I have one scum too many on this list. I'd drop one of Porochaz/OGML depending on future posting.

[Sotty7]

mathcam raised some excellent points which have convinced me. If there are 4 scum left, Sotty, who are they, from your perspective?

My top two are Spyrex and CES after that I am extremely unsure.

The case on me is based on what LML said and the scumputer. It's nothing I can really argue with because it's all associative. Only VitR brought a case on me that has been called by a few players including yourself as poor ABR. Mathcam's vote on my is drawn pretty much strictly out of his ideas of possible scum teams and on day three with one scum flip that's pretty terrible.