NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Yosarian2]

@Yos

, how would you characterize VitR's work on the LML lynch compared to your own?

VitR voted LML very early, in a way that I at the time thought was rather weird. Later in the day, when LML started actually looking more and more scummy, VitR's support for the wagon faded away, and he moved his vote over to PJ instead.

He did go back to LML in the end, but in a lukewarm way, going back to PJ again for a while before ending up on LML. Overall, knowing LML was scum, I see most of VitR's play on day 1 as overall looking pro-town, but with some really weird notes. His play day 2 was stranger, though.

Overall, I'm not as confident of VitR's alignment as I am of CES's at this point. That being said, I have trouble coming up with a plausible scum group that doesn't include VitR.

[Yosarian2]

I don't care, Yosarian. Answer my question about STD.

I still don't think STD is scum, if that was your question.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Who are your 4 scum, Yosarian?

[OhGodMyLife]

I've already stated why I think VitR is scum -- and why he's the lynch of the day. Go read that post and be persuaded.

I agree, he probably is, but deadline is tommorow and I don't think there's enough votes on VitR.

Come join us on CES today. Assuming VitR is scum, CES is his most likely buddy anyway.

I would gladly support a VitR lynch, and I am against an STD lynch.

[MrBuddyLee]

@MBL

I said one of LML's posts sounded town. I demonstrated that I still thought he was scum, but less convinced.

Bullshit.

I'm fine with LML's recent posting.

(Bookitty wagon) Literally the scummiest players in the game. 2-3 scum right there. (LML not on wagon)

VitR could very well be scum, I don't see why he would vote LML as town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Is there anyone against an STD bandwagon?

Choo Choo

[OhGodMyLife]

I also do not think VitR and CES are scum together I think CES is the townie that both VitR and chamber buddied quite successfully.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Cogito Ergo Sum (5) -- Sotty7, Yosarian2, Bookitty, DrippingGoofball, mathcam
VitaminR (1) -- undo
DrippingGoofball (5) -- petroleumjelly, Porochaz, Save the Dragons, Green Crayons, OhGodMyLife
Sotty7 (1) -- SpyreX
Yosarian2 (4) -- Albert B. Rampage, VitaminR, chamber, Cogito Ergo Sum

Not voting: MrBuddyLee
17 alive, 9 to lynch.

[OhGodMyLife]

Masons voting as one would really help speed this along I think.

[DrippingGoofball]

I also do not think VitR and CES are scum together I think CES is the townie that both VitR and chamber buddied quite successfully.

Yeah but you're voting a townie right now so...

[MrBuddyLee]

That being said, I have trouble coming up with a plausible scum group that doesn't include VitR.

He

is

an oily bastard, particularly surrounding LML. He also appeared to sway with the wind a few times, in particular following Glork's (incorrect) opinions and appearing to use Glork for cover:

Glork is right, there's still something very off about pj.

I agree with Glork on undo, though.

[Yosarian2]

Who are your 4 scum, Yosarian?

Clearly at least one or two of my town reads earlier were wrong, which is making me a bit paranoid.

Right now, I'd say CES, VitR, and very plausibly Spyrex are scum, but I'm not sure who the other 1-2 scum are. It's got to be someone in the group of (mathcam, MBL, DGB, Albert, OGML, chamber, STD), but at one point or another in this game I've gotten what I thought was a town read on everyone in that group, so at least one of my town reads is wrong. I don't think it's plausible it could be Bookitty, Prozac, or Green Crayons.

I think once we lynch another scum or two, though, it should be easier to figure out.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Your list of suspects is too large. I don't get any pro-town vibes from you. I see you trying to get one or two players lynched, but I don't see you trying to read the game and find the scum as a whole.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, explain this to me, Albert, because you're really not making sense at this point. What, exactally, has CES done this game that's making you so sure he's town? Why are you defending him so hard?

Point me to a post he's made that looks town-ish to you. Anything.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think that CES is lynchbait. If I were scum, that's who I'd try to push a bandwagon on so I could live another day.

[MrBuddyLee]

VitR voted LML very early, in a way that I at the time thought was rather weird. Later in the day, when LML started actually looking more and more scummy, VitR's support for the wagon faded away, and he moved his vote over to PJ instead.

Ok, but what do you think of the part in between? The eight posts where he kept reiterating his LML suspicions and expanding on them a little, up until May 20th and 28th:

chamber, how do you read LML's recent posts? I need a second opinion.

Yos comes off as quite town in his last few posts, with his discussion of DGB and LML. I'm not convinced that LML's scumhunting is actually scummy, but I agree that it's a bit superficial.

I guess the key is: do you believe him when he says he finds:

Unvote, vote: petroleumjelly
That last post of pj really sets alarm bells ringing for me, particularly the

opportunistic

jump on LML

or does that look like a post-outage excuse to get off a wagon he softly started and wished all along would disappear?

Potential evidence, from one hour earlier which also fits into the "VitR using Glork as cover" category:

I'm feeling a slightly scummy read on VitR, and I'm really unenthusiastic about the LML bandwagon.

Yos's switch from VitR to LML is particularly cringe-worthy and smells like scum trying to ride the tides to an easy lynch. Vote: Yosarian2

I am genuinely curious to know why people think LML went through the VC analysis to try to frame/jump on someone who hadn't had any attention whatsoever. Yeah, he lacked context as PJ indicated, but I'm really really really not seeing the connect between what LML did and an actual scum motivation. PJ's vote also feels in that

opportunistic

category. There's not a lot going on, and people might be feeling antsy after the downtime, so why not punish LML?

Was VitR using Glork's cover to get off the LML-wagon and on to PJ? Note the bolded "

opportunistic

" in both Glork's and VitR's posts.

[Yosarian2]

Your list of suspects is too large. I don't get any pro-town vibes from you. I see you trying to get one or two players lynched, but I don't see you trying to read the game and find the scum as a whole.

I don't need to find "the scum as a whole". In order to win, I just need to find one scum a day. Day 1, I found LML and lynched him. Day 2, I found CES. Day 3, I found VitR.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's plausible that CES is scum, I won't deny it. VitaminR as well. None of that changes the fact that you are scum, Yosarian. And I think you should go first.

[OhGodMyLife]

OK MBL if you vote VitR I will

[Sotty7]

I think that CES is lynchbait. If I were scum, that's who I'd try to push a bandwagon on so I could live another day.

Yos has been voting him all day, even when he wasn't under threat.

Who's the scum on the CES wagon using this theory?

[Yosarian2]

Was VitR using Glork's cover to get off the LML-wagon and on to PJ? Note the bolded "

opportunistic

" in both Glork's and VitR's posts.

Yeah, I tend to agree. That wasn't the only time he did that, either.

Unvote, Vote: pj

Ehh, I've changed my mind again. Glork is right, there's still something very off about pj.

[Yosarian2]

I think that CES is lynchbait. If I were scum, that's who I'd try to push a bandwagon on so I could live another day.

If CES is lynchbait, then why has he been so goddamned hard to lynch? I've been trying to lynch him since pretty early on day 2, because of his behavior about the LML wagon, and it's been impossible to get any momentum going there at all.

[chamber]

Because enough of the game has played with him to know that hes often mislynchbait?

[Yosarian2]

Because enough of the game has played with him to know that hes often mislynchbait?

Really? CES? I don't remember him being mislynched a lot.

Anyway, a ton of people are defending him incredibly hardcore, and have been for much of the game, and I just don't see it.

Albert is now denying that he was defending CES, although of course he was:

No, we're at deadline. Vote for DGB, Sotty, or Yosarian. I think DGB is town, but other people don't, so there are your choices.

In a situation where the top 3 wagons were DGB, Sotty, and CES, he ignored the CES wagon as an option. And then, he directly defends CES:

CES hasn't done anything scummy, and Sotty is voting for CES, which also makes me think he's town.

The number of people who have been defending CES, and the vehemence with which they've been doing it, seems totally out of proportion to anything he's done this game. I can understand someone saying "meh, I don't really have a read on CES right now", but I can't understand anyone defending him.

When I asked Albert why he was designed CES, he dodged the question. VitR is now trying to soften his position on CES. It feels like I'm fighting my way through a swamp here trying to lynch him, constantly being opposed while the people who are trying to protect CES are trying to deny they're doing it at the same time. That's part of the reason I'm convinced he's the right lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

CES is always mislynched.