NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Aeronaut]

Hmm.... I don't know about that. After all, I may have been a part of that mislynch, but [I wasn't the one who hammered Clusk without any explanation]

Shite, meant to quote this post in the parenthesis. Mod If you have time could you fix that? It's alright if that's going to be too annoying

Eh well it's at the end of a page where the correction isn't simultaneously visible so alright.

[Mirhawk]

Is there a point to your rebuttal aside from voicing displeasure at the fact I find you scummy?

[reinoe]

@Reinoe - Is it just me or is this not like his attitude in mini 1579.

He's more aggressive in this game. But he's also offering more useful questions too. For example post 1418. He's doing more of that this time around. I find Wake impossible to read but also difficult to interact with.

[Mirhawk]

Also I don't think your final vote on the Clusk wagon is what Agor was talking about.

I can't speak for anyone else but I find that you seem to tacitly agree with a lot of other players opinions without actually committing to them. And I don't mean commitment as in voting for anyone, I mean commitment as in calling people scum.

@Reinoe
Yeah that's pretty close to what I was thinking. He's asking more questions and is hunting more in general, But is also acting hyperagressive compared to what I remember.

[Aeronaut]

Also I don't think your final vote on the Clusk wagon is what Agor was talking about.

I can't speak for anyone else but I find that you seem to tacitly agree with a lot of other players opinions without actually committing to them. And I don't mean commitment as in voting for anyone, I mean commitment as in calling people scum.

Sure I agree with some of the opinions of the people in the town. That's the job of the town, no? To agree on one person and lynch them. And as far as commitment, I don't really like the thought of setting my sight on one person and only one person, or saying that "for sure" somebody is scum. I don't say anyone is scum for sure out loud here, because I don't do so in my own thoughts. Not including all possible options or scenarios creates tunnel vision, and tunnel vision is bad. Basically, If I were to look at a person's posts after I've marked them as Scum in my own mind, chances are I'm going to read that person's post with that Bias.

Look at Aegor for example. He's been stuck on lynching Hunterseeker since D1. Tunnel Vision.

[Aegor]

So you're telling me that it's scummier for me to hold back my vote and gather reactions, than it is for people like you to jump on the wagon as quick as possible?

False dichotomy.

Are we in backwards-world?

No; we are in Logic World.

Do you really think I would have taken so long to vote for Clusk if I wanted a quick lynch?

I am not asserting that you wanted a quicklynch. Withholding your vote is strictly anti-town unless one has some sort of voting modifier.

So, Aegor, I have a question for you. Why were you so quick to lynch Clusk? Why did he seem scummy to you? Link me to an earlier post if you need to, but I'm curious what was so scummy about him. I know why I thought he was scum, but why did you, Aegor?

I was fine with the lynch, and he was getting replaced or whatever. The wagon was already huge, and the day was IMO stalling. I wanted a flip.

[Aeronaut]

So, Aegor, I have a question for you. Why were you so quick to lynch Clusk? Why did he seem scummy to you? Link me to an earlier post if you need to, but I'm curious what was so scummy about him. I know why I thought he was scum, but why did you, Aegor?

I was fine with the lynch, and he was getting replaced or whatever. The wagon was already huge, and the day was IMO stalling. I wanted a flip.

It just seemed shady to me how quickly you (and in your defense, other people) jumped on that wagon.

As for "stalling my vote", I stopped doing it since about ten pages or so ago. I want DG to join the conversation, so he's my vote. I don't want a mislynch today.

[Aegor]

I will re-examine the wagon. The fact that Clusk emerged as the alternative to HS kind of makes me want to lynch HS more, but it could be two town wagons.

[BP]

I will re-examine the wagon. The fact that Clusk emerged as the alternative to HS kind of makes me want to lynch HS more, but it could be two town wagons.

I am pretty damn sure the HS wagon is another scum-motivated one. There is nothing to them other than not voting. I've said this before: they are policy lynches and policy lynches are bad for town because we decrease in number. That can't be.

I would much rather shoot down Scarab, who has not posted meaningfully since his interaction with me, which he dropped.

@Wake
Yes, something else. List of reads and why's. And I want you to answer the questions you posed to Shadowez. I want to know who strikes town to you, as I already know your scum list is everyone.

Busted quote(s?) fixed by Toomai.

Upon reflection I think that as Cabd was pretty obviously town, and so was farside. I doubt that either was a Vig kill. HS or Damon would have been good Vig targets, but Cabd and Farside don't make any sense. That leaves either SK or multiball.

This was very clever, concerning people's supposition that there was an odd-night vig. Tho we need to pay attention to the fact that Farside was an odd-night doc. Even if she protected someone who was in harm's way, odds are you're still right, and there is either scum+SK or scum+scum, but either way, two anti town factions with the power to kill.

-Wakes reads list is horrifyingly bad, it lists everyone but himself as null or scum.

Again, agreed. Wake vs the world.

[BP]

^ Oh, shoot.

@Mod

, if you have the time and patience with me, could you, please?

Danken.

Yep.

[Not_Mafia]

It's blatantly obvious neither of those were vig kills, and even if they are, a vig who would make either of those kills n1 is negative utility to the point that they may as well be an SK.

[Toomai]

Votecount D2-5

Sharpest-knife-on-tree	L-10	0	—
TheAdrienC	L-8	2	HunterSeeker, Juls
reinoe	L-10	0	—
Wake88	L-9	1	BP
Burning_TowN	L-10	0	—
shaddowez	L-10	0	—
Damon_Gant	L-6	4	Not_Mafia, Alina, Aeronaut, reinoe
Mirhawk	L-10	0	—
Not_Mafia	L-10	0	—
Aegor	L-10	0	—
Scarab	L-10	0	—
Boonskiies	L-8	2	Burning_TowN, BroodKingEXE
BroodKingEXE	L-9	1	Boonskiies
Juls	L-10	0	—
Aeronaut	L-10	0	—
HunterSeeker	L-6	4	Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Wake88, Aegor, Scarab
BP	L-10	0	—
Alina	L-10	0	—

Not voting:

TheAdrienC, Damon_Gant, Mirhawk, shaddowez
With

18

alive it takes

10

to lynch.

Activity

Damon_Gant has not read the start-of-day PM. If he reaches prod timing (in ~27.7 hours) and has not yet done so, I'll skip to replacing him. I may send him a prod before then to see if he responds.
HunterSeeker is due for a prod in ~28.7 hours.
Burning_TowN is V/LA until 15/07/2014.

Current deadline

04/08/2014 12:06 (EDT)
(expired on 2014-08-04 12:06:20)

[Alina]

He hasn't even read the start of day PM and he's logged on at least twice? ...How is that possible? o.O

[Juls]

@BP there are more to the HS votes than you suggest. I have said it over and over that it's the wifom about scum buddies that is the problem...not him not voting or the supposed slip. There is no town-reason to put out scum buddies-with-HS speculation if he is town.

[Alina]

Just so you guys know, I'm leaving in a couple hours and I won't be back until tomorrow night maybe, so I might be gone for up to 48 hours. Possibly a little more.

Okay, I've done rereads on a couple people so far, and I might do some more before going but I'm not sure yet.

Aeronaut

: Pretty sure he's town. If HS somehow flips scum, I think he's worth taking a look at, but apart from a possible deal there I think he's town.

Boonskiies

: He was fine on day 1, but today?

lolno

. When he started making no sense in his attempted accusations on me, I feel like he was scum trying to rationalize everything(which he

still

failed at by the way, since he contradicted himself even in his rationalizations) + Him townreading hunter...yet still wanting him lynched? What? Also, I don't he ever answered Burning Town's question about why he thinks I am a PR or scum. I'd like to know the answer to that too. Revealing something like that really isn't all that beneficial to us. You know. Considering if I am a PR, and assuming you

aren't

scum(ha), they believe you...then I get killed. Wonderfully thought out plan you got there, Boon! Are you

trying

to get me nightkilled? In short, on Boon, I think he's scum. He could just be a moron, but I think he's scum. Oh, yeah, and "I'm keeping my eye on you scum!" Then "Nah, I lost my scum read on you halfway through that argument. Pfft."

Okay

.

BroodKingEXE

: I'm leaning town on him, for a couple of posts. 878 and 901 are the major ones.

Burning_TowN

: Read the second word of their name. All that matters.

Damon_Gant

: Scum?? But I don't get why he wouldn't check the start of day PM though. I'm really confused right now. His posts seem scummy to me though so :/

HunterSeeker

: I think his 5 mafia thing was possibly just a guess, or maybe he tried pulling a wake. I don't know, but I don't think he's scum, or if he somehow is, he's probably independent like an SK because that wagon did not feel right to me.

reinoe

: Not all too much to say here, but I'm leaning townish on them.

Shaddowez

: For some reason I was thinking there was a chance he and Boon could be scumbuddies, but after the reread I have no idea why I thought that. He seems town to me but his 703 is giving me really strange vibes for some reason. I don't know, feels like he could be scum who was trying to subtle-push me towards the wagon. Boon did the same thing. But excluding that, he feels town.

Sharpest-Knife-On-Tree

: Town. I thought they kinda disappeared after the whole claim fiasco but they've been more active than I remembered, so yeah.

That's all I've done for now. I'll maybe do one or two more before I go but I'm not sure yet. I'll make sure to do everyone else when I get back. If there's anything you want me to explain I can try to.

[BP]

@BP there are more to the HS votes than you suggest. I have said it over and over that it's the wifom about scum buddies that is the problem...not him not voting or the supposed slip. There is no town-reason to put out scum buddies-with-HS speculation if he is town.

Are you sure? I see the same reasons as the ones there were on the Clusk wagon, and look at how that turned out.

[Boonskiies]

Boonskiies

: He was fine on day 1, but today?

lolno

. When he started making no sense in his attempted accusations on me, I feel like he was scum trying to rationalize everything(which he

still

failed at by the way, since he contradicted himself even in his rationalizations) + Him townreading hunter...yet still wanting him lynched? What? Also, I don't he ever answered Burning Town's question about why he thinks I am a PR or scum. I'd like to know the answer to that too. Revealing something like that really isn't all that beneficial to us. You know. Considering if I am a PR, and assuming you

aren't

scum(ha), they believe you...then I get killed. Wonderfully thought out plan you got there, Boon! Are you

trying

to get me nightkilled? In short, on Boon, I think he's scum. He could just be a moron, but I think he's scum. Oh, yeah, and "I'm keeping my eye on you scum!" Then "Nah, I lost my scum read on you halfway through that argument. Pfft."

Okay

.

I don't believe he's town...you don't read through the posts very well, do you? You always miss key important facts. I said IF he hadn't made that mafia count number slip, I would believe he's town, but since he did...yeah. And rather have you get NK'd than me. Playing entirely moronic for a while is beneficial to myself. I'm a selfish player. And I can get people to slip myself.

[Juls]

@BP there are more to the HS votes than you suggest. I have said it over and over that it's the wifom about scum buddies that is the problem...not him not voting or the supposed slip. There is no town-reason to put out scum buddies-with-HS speculation if he is town.

Are you sure? I see the same reasons as the ones there were on the Clusk wagon, and look at how that turned out.

Well, everyone is harping on the slip but that's not why I voted him. I voted him for the wifom. Clusk didn't do anything that scummy in my opinion. The replace out was suspect though and I get why he was lynched.

[Aegor]

Why are we even voting DG? He did not even

check

his role PM, so there is no way to portray this as scum lurking (or town lurking, for that matter).

Vote HS. GOGOGOGOGOGOGO

[Wake1]

Why are we even voting DG? He did not even

check

his role PM, so there is no way to portray this as scum lurking (or town lurking, for that matter).

[Not_Mafia]

Why are we even voting DG? He did not even

check

his role PM, so there is no way to portray this as scum lurking (or town lurking, for that matter).

Vote HS. GOGOGOGOGOGOGO

According to Alina he has been online, meaning he has actively ignored his daystart pm. I also don't like his posts as I mentioned earlier

[Aeronaut]

Vote HS. GOGOGOGOGOGOGO

Aegor, you seem pretty quick to want to lynch HS. Do you know something about him that you'd like to share with the rest of us?

[TheAdrienC]

It's blatantly obvious neither of those were vig kills, and even if they are, a vig who would make either of those kills n1 is negative utility to the point that they may as well be an SK.

I think someone already pointed this out but the two deaths were people who were strongly considered town. No way a vig did that. In my opinion, if there is a vig, their target probably either got protected by farside or they went after me to test my claim.

Personally, I think it's scum/SK. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm leaning towards. Someone who is more experienced in larger games, is there a different set of tells we should be looking for in possible SKs? I'd assume they don't care who is lynched as long as it isn't them (scum would at least be uncomfortable lynching one of their own), but anything else we should be on the look out for?

[Aegor]

Wait, I totally misread that as role PM.

Aegor, you seem pretty quick to want to lynch HS. Do you know something about him that you'd like to share with the rest of us?

Just so we are absolutely clear, are you fishing right now?

[shaddowez]

Why are we even voting DG? He did not even

check

his role PM, so there is no way to portray this as scum lurking (or town lurking, for that matter).

Vote HS. GOGOGOGOGOGOGO

I really don't like this. Have you not been reading people's reasonings as to why they're voting for DG, or do you just not care? I'm still leaning more scum than town for HS, but I'm not completely sold yet. If HS is town, this definitely feels like a scum push, and if HS is scum, it still feels like bussing. There's no real good evidence from this post alone, but it's definitely a gut feeling of mine.