Newbie 1517: Crossroads Mafia (Game Over)

[shaddowez]

Mod

, I'll be V/LA until 7/20.

I'll try to post at least once every RL day, but no guarantees.

[RachMarie]

the point of my questions was to help facilitate more discussion.

I am still working on my reads.

[penguin_alien]

Vote count 1.04:

With nine alive, it takes five to lynch!

Clusk92 (L-5):
Billi bilaoi (L-5):
Doogal121 (L-5):
Glass (L-5):
shaddowez (L-5):
acryon (L-5):
VictorDeAngelo (L-1): Clusk92, shaddowez, Billi bilaoi, TSO
RachMarie (L-5):
T S O (L-3): RachMarie, VictorDeAngelo

Not voting: Doogal121, acryon, Glass

V/LA: shaddowez through 7/20

Deadline is in (expired on 2014-07-24 00:46:38)

Glass replaced Lucy, acryon replaces Alesteors.

[Billi bilaði]

...

I have seen a single read from

each of you, and you're both pressing to get more reads from others.

I'm only half-tempted to respond to this, since there's not actually a question or evidence of wanting a reaction, but I will anyway. Mind you, I can only speak for myself, not for Rach.

First of all, I'm not sure how asking one specific player, in one post, if they have reads counts as "pressing to get more reads". I'd hate to see what happened if I asked twice. Second, one read is still more than zero. If you're not interested in hearing from everybody, or at least the people you're suspicious of, that's up to you. I had questions about TSO, he hadn't posted anything I felt had much content at the time, so I asked him about reads. And that brings me to my last point - that was over 50 posts ago. He has posted more since, which is why I haven't asked him about it again.

Sorry, this should have been "read on a single player".

OK, "...asking for more reads." instead of "...pressing...".

Where I'm coming from, is that I was wondering about why people asking for reads weren't giving them.

N.B. I haven't been giving reads myself, so I don't know how high my horse is for this comment. But, thank you for the response. All the little tidbits help.

[Billi bilaði]

...First of all, I'm not sure how asking one specific player, in one post, if they have reads counts as "pressing to get more reads".

I'd hate to see what happened if I asked twice.

Second, one read is still more than zero... And that brings me to my last point -

that was over 50 posts ago.

He has posted more since, which is why I haven't asked him about it again.

Do you think I was trying to trap you? Why so defensive about this?

But I only pointed it out after two of you had done it, so 50 posts later doesn't matter - except in the way that not much happened read-wise in that period.

[T S O]

Bill, there's no need to use coloured text. Also, it burns my eyes.

[T S O]

Although Victor's at L-1, there's no real urgency about him or his wagon. I don't know what I need to do to create that.

[Billi bilaði]

Bill, there's no need to use coloured text. Also, it burns my eyes.

I like colors when I think them appropriate, and you need some shades for that:

Although Victor's at L-1, there's no real urgency about him or his wagon. I don't know what I need to do to create that.

The L-1 came after his activity period yesterday, so maybe he hasn't seen it yet. Let's give him this day to answer before looking for alternative urgency.
But strange that few other players show it interest. (But maybe their just waiting for Victor's response like I am.)

[Doogal121]

OK everybody, after detailed analysis of each players ISO's, I have come up with the following list of Town/Null/Lynchable

Billi - Trying to dig up inconsistencies in votes
Glass - Trying to scumhunt
----
Clusk - Participating, not seeing much digging
Shaddows - Null
Acryon - No posts at all
Rach - Null
---
TSO - Victor was right, I was uncomfortable how quickly you called me Town after I announced I wasn't voting.
Victor - For pushing TSO because he vote prodded a lurker.

My vote comes available tomorrow and I have no problems hammering either of the lynchables after a 24 hour notice to give time to talk their way off the gallows.

[Doogal121]

Duh, forgot, I didn't like TSO putting Victor at L-1

[acryon]

Hey there,

First post, just got my confirmation this morning.

I've read through and as much as I don't want to just bandwagon, before I even got to the L-1 on Victor, I was reading him as pretty scummy. I obviously have never played with any of you before, but especially posts 83 and 92 both gave me some scummy vibes. I also didn't like the Doogal vote, even given the reasons. I am waiting to hear a good defense from him, so I look forward to his response.

I don't really like the vote on TSO just yet. I am reading him as a little scummy, but I think many of his actions have actually been valuable for town, so I'd much rather lynch a scummy read that I don't think is helping town versus ones that is (whether it be genuine or not).

[T S O]

Duh, forgot, I didn't like TSO putting Victor at L-1

Why?

Do you think I should have just skated around the issue?

[Doogal121]

Duh, forgot, I didn't like TSO putting Victor at L-1

Why?

Do you think I should have just skated around the issue?

How do I put this. I don't think you are in the wrong for running a scumread further up the steps. And, assuming Victor flips scum, you are in the clear.

However, I'm might be wrong for thinking this, but from games I observed on another forum (kingdom of loathing), Mafia would typically jump in toward the end of a mislynch wagon, but not be the one who hammered. So, in a game that is 5 to lynch, spots 3 and 4 are most likely to be scummy.

I guess how Victor flips, assuming he gets hammered will tell us a great deal about your vote.

[acryon]

Duh, forgot, I didn't like TSO putting Victor at L-1

Why?

Do you think I should have just skated around the issue?

How do I put this. I don't think you are in the wrong for running a scumread further up the steps. And, assuming Victor flips scum, you are in the clear.

However, I'm might be wrong for thinking this, but from games I observed on another forum (kingdom of loathing), Mafia would typically jump in toward the end of a mislynch wagon, but not be the one who hammered. So, in a game that is 5 to lynch, spots 3 and 4 are most likely to be scummy.

I guess how Victor flips, assuming he gets hammered will tell us a great deal about your vote.

I will say I am very much town and would have been the one to give Victor his 4th if it weren't already there when I showed up. So I definitely understand how it could read scummy, but I think moving forward on the scumread on Victor was and is the right play for town.

[VictorDeAngelo]

...I'm trying to get people to play, maybe?

At the point in which people in this game were already playing. I mean seriously I took us out of rvs. I had created plenty of things to analyse and now your coming out and trying to pretend that your blatant attempt to avoid doing any real work was scumhunting.

...
Because I think I said pretty clearly why I think you two are scum.

I'm pretty clear on why you think I am in the mafia (although I know you are barking up the wrong tree there), but it is equally unclear to me why you are putting T S O in the same category.

T S O votes for a player with the total of 1 post, who should be back from V/LA, and there isn't even a remote lynch danger from that vote.

Can you spell your reasons out for me?

You see the bolded. That's a pretty scummy thing to do.

Eeee... No, it's not.

Yeah, well I have my own theories about why you might not be seeing this.

Unvote
Vote: Victor DeAngelo

Victor's at L-1.

Oh my god I'm so surprised.

Because he's pretty damn scummy and I've given him enough chances to prove himself.

L-1 isn't an inherently bad thing; no-one here is stupid enough to quickhammer and it ramps up the pressure on Victor.

TSO has been in enough games surely to know this is BS. Come on guys we need to voting him today.

...

Bill on the other hand is probably scum. He held off voting in 67 despite saying the post was suspicious, then right after Shadowez highlights what he didn't like about my post Bill eagerly rewrites it in 73 and only gets around to voting in 77.

...

Also SE advice; get more active. I know Rach is vla but the rest of you need to be doing stuff. Scum won't catch themselves. It also makes for a boring game (and if the game is boring players like myself will just replace out).

So your advice is to jump right away with your vote on every post you don't like?

There are 5 player more active than you, including RachMarie. Should you take your own advice?

There's a difference between content and post count. My posts have actually moved this game forward. Even if it gets me lynched at least my wagon will prove of use tomorrow.

Dammit TSO, I wanted to vote victor.

Fine then hammer me. I'm vt so you don't lose much.

My actual intention was to see if any newbscum would actually sheep looking for an easy wagon.

I have trouble believing that this is honest. Lets examine this claim a bit:

First off, for this idea to have any merit it would require that Doogal is town and that newbscum see Doogal as an easy person to wagon. At the time of the vote, Doogal did not have any votes and TSO had three.
At this point, you either had suspicions of TSOscum or you did not.

Not entirely true. If Doogal was scum then there would be a buddy out there somewhere, and perhaps a newbscum buddy would jump to the defence. But your right I had no good reason to beleive he was town, merely playing the odds that he was.

If you did not believe TSO was scum at the time (or was neutral on him), I see absolutely no way you can say that you thought newbscum would sheep your vote on Doogal when TSO would be a far, far tastier wagon to jump onto for them. Perhaps you believed that newbscum was already on that wagon? But Lucy was V/LA and Rach is not a newbie, and doing all this because you thought that billiscum would go from a TSO wagon to a Doogal wagon because its an "easier wagon" sounds fairly farfetched to me.

TSO's wagon was still carrying rvs votes, in fact are any of these three serious:

VOTE: TSO

for bottoming the list.

VOTE: TSO


Because OMGUS is so tasty

I didn't give them anything, Officer, I swear!

Tsk tsk tsk. No swearing here. I'll give you the third vote for that.

VOTE: T S O

So no, I don't really think scum were looking to jump the wagon. If it had in anyway been a serious wagon I would not have had to bothered doing what I did.

If you thought that TSO was scum at the time, you may have thought that TSO's partner might be a newbscum willing to sheep your vote. But that does not explain why you would choose Doogal. At this point there were several other people who already had a vote on them and could be seen as an easier wagon, if this was truly what you believed.

Doogal was fairly irrelevent except I found something that might produce a wagon.

...First of all, I'm not sure how asking one specific player, in one post, if they have reads counts as "pressing to get more reads".

I'd hate to see what happened if I asked twice.

Second, one read is still more than zero... And that brings me to my last point -

that was over 50 posts ago.

He has posted more since, which is why I haven't asked him about it again.

Do you think I was trying to trap you? Why so defensive about this?

But I only pointed it out after two of you had done it, so 50 posts later doesn't matter - except in the way that not much happened read-wise in that period.

I don't get what Billi is trying to acheive with any of this.

Although Victor's at L-1, there's no real urgency about him or his wagon. I don't know what I need to do to create that.

You want urgency? Why so you can quickly end the day before everyone has had a chance to contribute.

Duh, forgot, I didn't like TSO putting Victor at L-1

And yet I'm your number scumread.

Hey there,

First post, just got my confirmation this morning.

I've read through and as much as I don't want to just bandwagon, before I even got to the L-1 on Victor, I was reading him as pretty scummy. I obviously have never played with any of you before, but especially posts 83 and 92 both gave me some scummy vibes. I also didn't like the Doogal vote, even given the reasons. I am waiting to hear a good defense from him, so I look forward to his response.

I don't really like the vote on TSO just yet. I am reading him as a little scummy, but I think many of his actions have actually been valuable for town, so I'd much rather lynch a scummy read that I don't think is helping town versus ones that is (whether it be genuine or not).

Here's an idea, why don't you highlight what you found scummy in 83 and 92 rather than just saying it?

Either way if people want to lynch me, go for it. I aint got anymore I can say and it's hardly the first time I've been mislynched day 1.

[Billi bilaði]

...
I don't really like the

vote on TSO

just yet. I am reading him as a little scummy, but I think many of his actions have actually been valuable for town, so I'd much rather lynch a scummy read that I don't think is helping town versus ones that is (whether it be genuine or not).

Welcome.
I get the feeling that you meant you didn't like

T S O's vote

, but this reads to me as you don't like someones vote on T S O.
Or do you mean you're not ready to vote him yet?
Can you clear this a bit for me?

[Billi bilaði]

...

...First of all, I'm not sure how asking one specific player, in one post, if they have reads counts as "pressing to get more reads".

I'd hate to see what happened if I asked twice.

Second, one read is still more than zero... And that brings me to my last point -

that was over 50 posts ago.

He has posted more since, which is why I haven't asked him about it again.

Do you think I was trying to trap you? Why so defensive about this?

But I only pointed it out after two of you had done it, so 50 posts later doesn't matter - except in the way that not much happened read-wise in that period.

I don't get what Billi is trying to acheive with any of this.

Reactions. I noticed the difference in the reactions of the two players in question, and will ponder upon that as the game rolls on.

...Either way if people want to lynch me, go for it. I aint got anymore I can say and

it's hardly the first time I've been mislynched day 1.

I'm not surprised.
I disagree with you on almost every point you make (except that, yes, you moved the game forward - but that isn't a town tell per se), and with the normal likelyhood of lynching a mafioso the first day, I think you are a wery good candidate for day 1 lynching.

[acryon]

...
I don't really like the

vote on TSO

just yet. I am reading him as a little scummy, but I think many of his actions have actually been valuable for town, so I'd much rather lynch a scummy read that I don't think is helping town versus ones that is (whether it be genuine or not).

Welcome.
I get the feeling that you meant you didn't like

T S O's vote

, but this reads to me as you don't like someones vote on T S O.
Or do you mean you're not ready to vote him yet?
Can you clear this a bit for me?

For sure. T S O had a few votes at the time and there were a couple posts questioning whether he may be scummy, and I didn't really like him as a lynch at this point.

I actually very much liked T S O's vote, and would have made it myself if he hadn't previously.

[acryon]

Here's an idea, why don't you highlight what you found scummy in 83 and 92 rather than just saying it?

Either way if people want to lynch me, go for it. I aint got anymore I can say and it's hardly the first time I've been mislynched day 1.

Sure thing....

Bill on the other hand is probably scum. He held off voting in 67 despite saying the post was suspicious, then right after Shadowez highlights what he didn't like about my post Bill eagerly rewrites it in 73 and only gets around to voting in 77.

This is just a bad read, IMO. Bill posted his initial scum-vibe from you (which doesn't demand a vote, especially if he had other scum-reads), then waited to hear some more, which he did from Shadow. Then, in post 73, he actually posed a very much on-point question about you stirring things up. In 75, T S O gave another reason to see your play as suspect. So the eventual vote in 77 makes a lot of sense to me.

Then, as T S O pointed out, your mentioning that you liked Clusk's vote for you definitely seems like an attempt to gain an ally in Clusk and persuade him of your innocence.

I like Clusk's vote in 71.

I fail to understand why you like people voting you. The only reason you could say this is because you're buddying Clusk.

Or... what he did was exactly what I wanted to see happen.

This response just reads really scummy to me. Trying to generate discussion is good, but I think there is a better way to do it other than throwing things out that will obviously make you look scummy.

While you are generating discussion, I think it is just discussion that is attempting to confuse the town, which makes you lynch-able as either mafia or bad town.

[VictorDeAngelo]

...

...First of all, I'm not sure how asking one specific player, in one post, if they have reads counts as "pressing to get more reads".

I'd hate to see what happened if I asked twice.

Second, one read is still more than zero... And that brings me to my last point -

that was over 50 posts ago.

He has posted more since, which is why I haven't asked him about it again.

Do you think I was trying to trap you? Why so defensive about this?

But I only pointed it out after two of you had done it, so 50 posts later doesn't matter - except in the way that not much happened read-wise in that period.

I don't get what Billi is trying to acheive with any of this.

Reactions. I noticed the difference in the reactions of the two players in question, and will ponder upon that as the game rolls on.

What exactly did you notice?

...Either way if people want to lynch me, go for it. I aint got anymore I can say and

it's hardly the first time I've been mislynched day 1.

I'm not surprised.
I disagree with you on almost every point you make (except that, yes, you moved the game forward - but that isn't a town tell per se), and with the normal likelyhood of lynching a mafioso the first day, I think you are a wery good candidate for day 1 lynching.[/quote]

Wow, it like you revel in assholery.

[VictorDeAngelo]

And I'm vla until Sunday so you can hammer or whatever.

[T S O]

Why are you so okay with being hammered?

[Billi bilaði]

...What exactly did you notice?...

Certain defensiveness.

...Wow, it like you revel in assholery.

It takes one to know one, it appears.

[T S O]

I just don't get it, Victor. You came in, you immediately began to dislike me giving out townreads. Then you disliked my pressure and started calling me scum. And now, after making walls detailing why you think I'm scum, you throw out a tired "Hammer me if you like guys!" and piss off?/

What the fuck, Victor?

[T S O]

Would scum Victor really be this nonchalant about being lynched?