Open 561: Farmer's Market (Game Over)

[Bins]

oh, i didn't like the "this game should end right fucking now" part. missed cutting that out. i meant the neil thing.

[The Bulge]

Hmm what if...
VOTE: don_johnson
Gimme a sec.

[The Bulge]

Ok so there's not much specific that jumps out particularly because honestly there's not a lot to look at. Here are a couple small things that bug me along with my overall feel.

hm. if 120 checks out fact wise, then I'd say its a good post. I hate sorting out walls though.

fitz: long time no see. what do you make of this nonsense and where do you sit on the fruit plans?

This seems like a lazy wagon-push. He endorses the case, but never jumps on it.

neil: I've been hoping to get time to put the mathbandit case together, but my initial vote stems from early on. give the thread a read and tell me what you think.

One thing that always bugs me when

anyone

does it is "I think this person is scum. Now everyone tell me why I'm right." This is a big scum-tell in my books. It shows lack of dedication to actually putting together a full case (hint: they know their target is actually town). And then when he does end up putting something together, we get...

mathbandit. the case. I wish I had the time to sift through all of this. #87 is what confirmed it to me. the innocentvillager vote just seems a poor reaction to the recent three votes against himself. with part of the reasoning being "inactivity" which is a cop out on page four, and the other being "not observant of the mechanics, just mere posts after defending someone for having a different opinion on theory. just seems like a "shit, I'm getting found out, better brush it off and cast suspicion elsewhere" type post. that is really the crux of my original case. reread that couple of pages and tell me what you think given that context.

Lazy lazy lazy. The exchange of retorts in the posts following this are equally lazy and opportunistic. It's not much to go on, but honestly he's my top read right now.

[neil1113]

People I'm fine with lynching are don, math and... that's kindof it.

I feel like the only reason you'd come up with this is because frankly, they are the only two actually talking... :/ (This is not an accusation of any sorts)

I am curious, if you're top suspects are the two that are currently dominating the thread arguing... do you really think it's a major buss? Or are you just being opportunistic here? (This is an accusation, somewhat.)

Alright, going to page one, and reading through now. Sorry Fitz, I knew you were waiting for me. <3

P.S. That was a great catch on that call out to "hurry the game up." So far from what I've read, that's the scummiest thing. (P.S.S. This doesn't say too much, I haven't read anything except for the posts after I replaced in.)

[Formerfish]

or we could agree that dj is awesome town all the time and realize that he has a knack for finding scum early and without having to read too much and then we could vote mathbandit and watch him flip scum. but whatevz.

Or you could not cock block me and let Math answer the fucking question first. Just a thought though. There is a reason that I asked the question and it would be fantastic to hear the answer.

[Formerfish]

I mean....there's no deadline in the game, he places a 3rd vote on someone he gives no reason for suspecting, and avoids putting a 2nd vote (ie same as math att) on his voiced suspect (Siv) who would most assuredly regain votes that had dropped off his wagon: me, ~fish, ~bins, ~The Bulge.

Little activity is bad for town. This game has all but stalled. We need it to get going, otherwise scum can just lurk to victory.

Also, Siv is a suspect, but not high on my suspect list. I still read him as town, except for that one post that is scummy as fuck.

You are right, little activity is bad for town and for the game. It allows scum to hide and slink by because they don't have to put words behind their actions and avoid accountability. However, if we rush to a vote and go to night then there isn't

any

discussion going on which is worse. The game has stalled, but how about instead of pushing us all on a lynch you try to interact with someone specifically and get some talk started?

giving the fruit to the guy below would be dangerous to town, if by chance one mafia is below the other mafia in the list.

We should think about this some more.

I will personally lead the wagon on everyone who claims to not have followed the strategy.

Ice...Why is the hayato/Neil slot screaming town to you?

Who are your top three suspects?

Inactivity is bad but it's no excuse to rush into a lynch. We need to wait for a lynch until everyone is back in the game. To include you and Neil and whoever is replacing TSO.

I like this post a lot, and look forward to Ice replying to the posts that you quoted.

And why does the day need" to end right fucking now?"
You/Ice just joined and have not contributed anything.
Neil has just joined and not contributed anything.
TSO is in the process of being replaced.
don_johnson is on extended v/la.
Everyone else is underposting. ....

Shouldn't we see what the new blood can contribute before ending the day?

I was thinking basically this. Fitz gets townpoints.

UNVOTE: mathbandit

My vote was basically PoE. People I'm fine with lynching are don, math and... that's kindof it. Maybe aronis, but probably not. Everyone else looks either towner or just better than those two players.

If you are "fine" with lynching math why do you unvote him here? And I know you mention it in a later post, but how is it that a) You forgot about Bulge, and b) You have no read on Bulge anymore?

[don_johnson]

bulge: I'm on v/la. plus, I'm normally lazy. if "lazy=scum" is your best read after 14 pages or wherever we're at, that's pretty sad. you haven't even addressed the point I

did

make about math. his complete avoidance of the wagon on him and his diversionary and weak vote on iv. but whatevz.

fish: no need to be testy. you do your thing.

[Formerfish]

Reading back over that it does come off a little harsh. My apologies.

[mathbandit]

Math, are you saying DJ is scum or shitty town? If you are saying scum then that's one thing, but if you are saying he is bad town then maybe you shouldn't worry about defending yourself so much if his accusation is really that far off base and help is find some actual scum.

I'm saying he's an idiot, mostly. I'll need to read over the game this weekend to tell if he's actually scummy or not, it's too easy to be blinded in the moment because I'm the one he's targetting.

Today I plan on taking another look at the Siv wagon. I can't imagine that a wagon went from that close to a lynch to being completely dead in a matter of a day or two without Scum involvement. I want to see if anyone in particular derailed the wagon.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

@Neil, On math I think I am being opportunistic.

On don it's mostly this

I'm normally lazy.

In answer to fish, have a bad habit of forgetting to update my reads and just running with the old reads way past when I should... that's what happened with bulge in #371, and also in #103, #110, #112.

Spoiler: My slightly updated reads

Town reads:
Aronis - a lot of aronis looks like what town-siv used to be.
Neil - I liked hayato for town. If hayato was scum he was wifoming the town by doing "scummy" things, after it was proven that being "scummy" would get him voted.
Bins: This is mostly just gut. Bins feels VERY town.

Leaning town:
TSO - This is mostly based off his pro-activeness earlier on.
Fitz - This one is pretty weak. I'm not completely sure why he's leaning town, beyond gut.
Fish - Idk why fish leans town either really.

Null-Pro-town (Null, but doing what town should probably be doing):
The bulge: Every time I try to look at bulge, I see the stuff I originally noticed and then get worried as to whether I was conf-biasing that or not. That said, I don't see town-tells either - especially in the stuff pointed out earlier by fitz/fish.
Iceguy: Yeah, don't quite have enough here.

Null-weak players (Null, but not really doing what town should do)
Don johnson
Mathbandit

Scum:
Nobody.

I want to lynch in the null-weak list atm because I doubt those players can leave null-weak and I don't really have proper scumreads elsewhere.

Pedit: Hangon, looking back at it, bulge got off the wagon because math brought me to L-1, and then never revoted me. Fish was "my reads have been shit" and bins got mindscrewed .

[The Bulge]

I get that it's a legit reason. Being a lazy motherfucker myself, I can respect that. But I still don't think things should be let go with only that as an excuse. I'm not saying the lazy excuse is scummy, I'm just saying scum can use it easily and we can't let it slide.

[mathbandit]

Bullshit Siv. You can't claim not to have any scumreads this late in the Day. Your 'reads' are

screaming

"I know these people will flip Town but I am justifying the lynch anyways."

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

So math, as town I should invent reads?

I legitimately don't have scumreads.

[mathbandit]

Gun to your fruitstand. You need to name a player, and if they are Scum you win 1000$. You do you pick?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

You, because gun to my fruitstand.

Seriously though, probably the bulge.

Thinking about it, I probably don't really want a lynch just yet.

[mathbandit]

You, because gun to my fruitstand.

Seriously though, probably the bulge.

Thinking about it, I probably don't really want a lynch just yet.

So if you had one choice to pick a Scum right now, it would be Bluge.
If you had to lynch someone right now, it would be me or don.

What in the actual fuck?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Probably not you right now actually.

I really don't think bulge is gonna be lynched today.

[mathbandit]

Say you had to shoot someone right now. If you don't, you die. Who are you shooting?

[havingfitz]

Ice's entry post seems fine.

I want Ice to say more. His openning post looked fine, but it made me feel weird.

VOTE: ice dude man

WTF?

Also...still no content from Neil and Ice and

our TSO replacement and Aronis prod are idk for awol mod!!

[Bins]

I reread it like 10 times because it felt kind of off after rereading it once.

[mathbandit]

Obligatory note that I likely won't have access until Monday morning.

[havingfitz]

I reread it like 10 times because it felt kind of off after rereading it once.

It took you ten rereads to realize Ice had entered with a vote and no rationale?

replacing into a game with one, unexplained vote doesn't make me feel good.

[Bins]

It was an overstatement, lol. But no, other people pointed that out, I went back and looked at it, and I realized I didn't like the fact he felt like he was trying to get town points.

[Bins]

*exaggeration

i don't english

[Bins]

I also agree with Siv, I don't have any better reads than that unfortunately. I see the DJ points but I don't want to lynch based on "laziness." and stuff like that.

Honestly, I'm feeling that it's more likely that one of the silent people is scum. By that I mean Aronis and "tso." I guess you could put DJ and Ice in the category.