InuYasha Mafia (Game Over)

[AngryIcerink]

Since

I can't die at night, only by lynch

, look at whoever hammers me. My partners can claim later when they have more of an upside to them.

I'm

Kocho, Town Undead Vanilla Mason

Not to mention the above. You have to explain this stuff as an error either way, though.

Relevant also to interpreting the posts of anyone who posts about the lack of Lemniscate nightkill making the problem deal with itself.

- Iec

[Le Cupcake]

Also your argument seems to be mostly based on points that indicate that Lem does not know how to claim properly over the fact that it's fucked up scumclaiming.

Hell I've been through this dance before where once I claim-stalled in segments, and got lynched for it as a result D1. Needless to say I was town.

[AngryIcerink]

I am a little surprised that you (I think?) find bit-by-bit claim elaborations evidence of a town alignment. Town just has to claim what's in their role PM. Scum have to craft things.

Heck, we even know that Lemniscate asked her "mason mates" how to claim, as she said as much in the thread.

She was told secret information by the Mod that made her think that scum had daytalk.

It wasn't obvious to her that claiming the number of mason partners would be an obvious thing to do.

The only argument in favor of Lemni town I can see is the argument from flavor, and that's mitigated to an extent by Ceph's fakeclaim meta.

pedit rofl katsuki, town fakeclaimer extraordinaire. Claim Asoka or go home. I have "reasons" to believe it's pretty sketchy, and I don't even have to be cagey about it.

Unvote; Vote: Lemniscate

- Iec

Is that the case?

I find it unlikely scum fakeclaim a 4-man masonry. Especially given this playerbase.

Is everyone in this game allergic to reading the fucking game? Jesus christ.

Please do not try to lead without reading the thread. Please do not make obnoxious fakeclaims as town. I suppose I can't really police you if you're scum, though, because lots of players are making such behavior totally acceptable.

- Iec

[Le Cupcake]

Since

I can't die at night, only by lynch

, look at whoever hammers me. My partners can claim later when they have more of an upside to them.

I'm

Kocho, Town Undead Vanilla Mason

Not to mention the above. You have to explain this stuff as an error either way, though.

Relevant also to interpreting the posts of anyone who posts about the lack of Lemniscate nightkill making the problem deal with itself.

- Iec

welpppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

I don't put it past masons having powers, but this just reads to me that Lem has no idea how to play? I've had a PGO-mason buddy before so that post doesn't read out of the ordinary for me.

[Le Cupcake]

I am a little surprised that you (I think?) find bit-by-bit claim elaborations evidence of a town alignment. Town just has to claim what's in their role PM. Scum have to craft things.

Heck, we even know that Lemniscate asked her "mason mates" how to claim, as she said as much in the thread.

She was told secret information by the Mod that made her think that scum had daytalk.

It wasn't obvious to her that claiming the number of mason partners would be an obvious thing to do.

The only argument in favor of Lemni town I can see is the argument from flavor, and that's mitigated to an extent by Ceph's fakeclaim meta.

pedit rofl katsuki, town fakeclaimer extraordinaire. Claim Asoka or go home. I have "reasons" to believe it's pretty sketchy, and I don't even have to be cagey about it.

Unvote; Vote: Lemniscate

- Iec

Is that the case?

I find it unlikely scum fakeclaim a 4-man masonry. Especially given this playerbase.

Is everyone in this game allergic to reading the fucking game? Jesus christ.

Please do not try to lead without reading the thread. Please do not make obnoxious fakeclaims as town. I suppose I can't really police you if you're scum, though, because lots of players are making such behavior totally acceptable.

- Iec

You think a playerbase like this would contain any scumteam that would think of fakeclaiming a 4-man masonry?

and no shit I'm not reading this thread I can do without wasting my time on spam (nor, come to mention, wasting my time arguing with scum like you )

[Le Cupcake]

Prob gonna continue lurking for another 2 months but I want YAK BLOOD with a Lem-townflip.

[AngryIcerink]

Also your argument seems to be mostly based on points that indicate that Lem does not know how to claim properly over the fact that it's fucked up scumclaiming.

Hell I've been through this dance before where once I claim-stalled in segments, and got lynched for it as a result D1. Needless to say I was town.

1. AP and I have specifically indicated how otherwise-inexplicable aspects of the claim process -- e.g., having to delay in particular for getting the rolename claim right, clarification from the Mod leading to a belief in scum daytalk (this one was AP), receiving "mason aid" for the nameclaim process -- are totally fathomable if she is simply scum.

I was also the first one to bring up the Mason fakeclaim angle as a counterpoint to investigate, similar to you, albeit only after actually reading the thread. Refer to notscience and Prohawk's posts for relevant Cephrir mod meta.

2. Stop being scummy unnecessarily and you will probably be mislynched less.

NB: If Lemniscate is town, Asoka/"Asoka" will claim and she will not be lynched and/or we will either have two scum down the line. They might even be cross-killed in this case were it not for the bulletproof claim without a bulletproof rolename.

pedit - I think her masons/"masons" were definitely involved in the claim process because she literally claimed as much. This much is not at all a mystery to people who read the ISO you were so proud of.

Given Cephrir's meta for modifying fakeclaims on the fly based on the requests of the scumteam, it is totally not a stretch to imagine any player willing to go back-and-forth with the Mod to make it reasonable. And what do you know -- we have claim-stalling, a phenomenon totally consistent with Mod back-and-forthing!

- Iec

[Young and Beautiful]

I am a little surprised that you (I think?) find bit-by-bit claim elaborations evidence of a town alignment. Town just has to claim what's in their role PM. Scum have to craft things.

Sure, scum have to craft things. But scum are also thinking ahead in order to do so. Lemniscate is just playing in the moment, and when driven up you can see her frantically. Waiting for a mod to help with a fakeclaim is quick. Waiting for your mason partners to deliberate over how she should claim, whether to out a partner, how much to give away about the masonry in general- that takes time, not to mention forgetting other more singular role related things in the midst of all that.

Heck, we even know that Lemniscate asked her "mason mates" how to claim, as she said as much in the thread.

Doing so is not scummy; you'd naturally want to protect your mason partners from scum. Admitting that that is what she did is completely town.

She was told secret information by the Mod that made her think that scum had daytalk.

If she's a mason, isn't her "secret information" just the fact that her town group has daytalk?

It wasn't obvious to her that claiming the number of mason partners would be an obvious thing to do.

No. Just no. If the mason claim is real (probably), I would prefer if scum didn't know how many conftowns they have to hunt down. Crumbing is much better for everyone here.

The only argument in favor of Lemni town I can see is the argument from flavor, and that's mitigated to an extent by Ceph's fakeclaim meta.

Can't comment.

pedit rofl katsuki, town fakeclaimer extraordinaire. Claim Asoka or go home. I have "reasons" to believe it's pretty sketchy, and I don't even have to be cagey about it.

I... want Katsuki to clarify mason or not.

Unvote; Vote: Lemniscate

- Iec

Also, the game is large enough that I'm far from doubting the existence of multiple conftowns/potential conftowns. I've played in smaller large games before where this was the case as well.

- y -

[Le Cupcake]

Also your argument seems to be mostly based on points that indicate that Lem does not know how to claim properly over the fact that it's fucked up scumclaiming.

Hell I've been through this dance before where once I claim-stalled in segments, and got lynched for it as a result D1. Needless to say I was town.

1. AP and I have specifically indicated how otherwise-inexplicable aspects of the claim process -- e.g., having to delay in particular for getting the rolename claim right, clarification from the Mod leading to a belief in scum daytalk (this one was AP), receiving "mason aid" for the nameclaim process -- are totally fathomable if she is simply scum.

I was also the first one to bring up the Mason fakeclaim angle as a counterpoint to investigate, similar to you, albeit only after actually reading the thread. Refer to notscience and Prohawk's posts for relevant Cephrir mod meta.

2. Stop being scummy unnecessarily and you will probably be mislynched less.

NB: If Lemniscate is town, Asoka/"Asoka" will claim and she will not be lynched and/or we will either have two scum down the line. They might even be cross-killed in this case were it not for the bulletproof claim without a bulletproof rolename.

pedit - I think her masons/"masons" were definitely involved in the claim process because she literally claimed as much. This much is not at all a mystery to people who read the ISO you were so proud of.

Given Cephrir's meta for modifying fakeclaims on the fly based on the requests of the scumteam, it is totally not a stretch to imagine any player willing to go back-and-forth with the Mod to make it reasonable. And what do you know -- we have claim-stalling, a phenomenon totally consistent with Mod back-and-forthing!

- Iec

1.

I highly doubt that any player in this playerbase sans me would come up with 4-man mason fakeclaim and thus your point is moot.

2.

I'm only scummy as town can't be helped. This however is a bait statement you're making that has zero relevance to the argument at hand that I'm falling for anyways.

[AngryIcerink]

@Y&B -- Her secret information is NOT simply that her scumteam has daytalk. This was actually my inference when I skimmed her post too quickly, too. AP pointed out to me that she explicitly said that it was correspondence with the Mod that made her think that scum had daytalk. AP quotes it in one of our posts. This is something else that is only consistent with LemniscateScum. What would the Mod tell masons via a PM that would make it any clearer that scum have daytalk that they didn't already know?

The LemniTown possibility I see here is that she is simply poor historian, which certainly isn't impossible as it probably happened before she replaced in, though her wording doesn't really make it sound that way.

You are mistaken about the ideal strategy for claiming number of masons. If there are 3 masons, mafia can fakeclaim being the "fourth mason." This is extremely standard mafia 101. A caveat is that it's not a huge deal until there's a risk of the real masons being wiped out by the next day phase.

Regarding your first two points, the main other thing I would point out is that Mod quickness isn't that quick when he has to quickly craft a fakeclaim (which I think is most likely what happened given LemniScum, since it explains so much unusual behavior with 1 set-up assumption that is corroborated by Cephrir's mod meta). That can take time. But you're right that this COULD, like the other stuff, simply be a series of poor decisions, much the way that most scummy plays by town that aren't self-conscious attempts to muck up the culture on the site are such decisions.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

Also I'd like to point out the bulletproof mason claim. Since when are BULLETPROOF MASONS a thing.
~AP

I will say the flavor is literally the only thing making me think Lemni is town at this point. Since basically the mason claim means that the other 2 relevant flavor names (I barely know the flavor, Iec explained it to me) are not in the game / are now wasted fake claims?

And a game with so many slots certainly doesnt have much room for extra flavor names floating around (probably?, I have no idea how big this universe is).

I am going to punch someone in a fit of rage if we end up lynching a bulletproof mason and the other mason(s) don't claim to stop it. Because seriously fuck you if that happens.

P-edit: Also Lemni specifically denied the 4 man mason claim and has actively refused to claim how many masons there are. Flavor would suggest 3 according to Iec.

[Young and Beautiful]

the culture on the site

ravish me

[AngryIcerink]

1.

I highly doubt that any player in this playerbase sans me would come up with 4-man mason fakeclaim and thus your point is moot.

2.

I'm only scummy as town can't be helped. This however is a bait statement you're making that has zero relevance to the argument at hand that I'm falling for anyways.

1. There is neither a 4-man mason claim nor a 4-man mason fakeclaim in this game.

What probably happened is that Lemniscate decided to claim Mason and Cephrir gave her Asoka as a plausible fakeclaim after an awkward delay. Not rocket science.

Defending Lemniscate sounds absurd at this point IMO because you are relying on so many bad decisions from both Lemniscate and "Asoka" to allow them to be town.

2. My point is that your bad behavior could justify basically any town play as totally normal behavior.

- Iec

[Young and Beautiful]

Oh.

- y -

[Young and Beautiful]

You're town. I'll make sure B knows and

remembers

it, too.

I should be able to decide whether to just give in and sheep you when I return to the thread.

- y -

[Mist7676]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mist

I am okay with this direction however, especially Mist's desire to suddenly hurry up and lynch me, and how active Mist has become near deadline. Weird how that works... (don't consider a lynch on Mist, focus on the deadline! Just lynch that scum girl lemniscate!) That's the scummiest thing I've seen on my lynch wagon.

Wait what. I have been adamant on how I feel like you are town all day, even

pushing

for a Shos lynch. How the hell do you get the idea that I want to suddenly lynch you. This is really odd, and I'm wondering why you are trying to twist up my words like that. Surely it wasn't out of self preservation or that would be really scummy.

The Undead claim really sticks out at me, since I'm sure there is speculation that this faction is scummy. Maybe that's the masons? I don't think scum would go out of their way to claim the probably ostracized faction, so I still believe that Lemni is town, but don't like how she misrepped me.

[AngryIcerink]

Also I'd like to point out the bulletproof mason claim. Since when are BULLETPROOF MASONS a thing.
~AP

I think the unstated LemniTown apologetics for this is that she inferred that her Undead flavor made her NKproof or something. That is the only explanation I can come up with. That, or lots of players aren't reading her posts very carefully while defending her, which we objectively know has happened a few times.

NB: That the bulletproof masons thing alone would be auto-lynch territory in literally any other mafia game.

I will say the flavor is literally the only thing making me think Lemni is town at this point. Since basically the mason claim means that the other 2 relevant flavor names (I barely know the flavor, Iec explained it to me) are not in the game / are now wasted fake claims?

And a game with so many slots certainly doesnt have much room for extra flavor names floating around (probably?, I have no idea how big this universe is).

I think some people are basically claiming monsters-of-the-week, so most stuff is fair game I think.

I agree with myself about the flavor being the best argument for LemniTown, though Ceph providing the Mason character name upon request can account for this. It also helps explain the need for appropriate "rolename wording" that Lemniscate said her mason friends emphasized (suggesting that LemniScum implies that at least 1 other scum has flavor knowledge or is at least paying close enough attention to know the Town Undead Vanilla Mason wording business, perhaps learning from the xof situation where the order of the word Demon pinged someone).

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mist

I am okay with this direction however, especially Mist's desire to suddenly hurry up and lynch me, and how active Mist has become near deadline. Weird how that works... (don't consider a lynch on Mist, focus on the deadline! Just lynch that scum girl lemniscate!) That's the scummiest thing I've seen on my lynch wagon.

Wait what. I have been adamant on how I feel like you are town all day, even

pushing

for a Shos lynch. How the hell do you get the idea that I want to suddenly lynch you. This is really odd, and I'm wondering why you are trying to twist up my words like that. Surely it wasn't out of self preservation or that would be really scummy.

The Undead claim really sticks out at me, since I'm sure there is speculation that this faction is scummy. Maybe that's the masons? I don't think scum would go out of their way to claim the probably ostracized faction, so I still believe that Lemni is town, but don't like how she misrepped me.

Both "Demon" and "Undead" are probably not perfectly correlated with alignment. Naraku's faction (confirmed by Moogle) probably has scummy demons, and/or the Band of the Seven faction, who have been speculated as a separate scumfaction but may not be, have Undead. Several players have claimed Demon in this thread already.

We know that certain abilities only work on particular types of characters (e.g., only on Demons, only on Undead, etc). It is my guess that Lemniscate is Undead regardless of her alignment; hence, a positive Undead investigation, for example, would not be incriminating.

BTW:

if anyone is Asoka or Kikyo and NOT Masons with Lemniscate, the chance that she is town drops to 0%

. This starts to be a possibility if she was given Kocho alone as an ad hoc Mason fakeclaim. The more likely case here would be Kikyo being in the game as a standalone. Kikyo might be able to simply kill her at night, though, in such a case.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

^ How possible is it that Lemni's claimed flavor group IS a scumteam and they maybe have other relevant fake claims that she didn't use?

[AngryIcerink]

I think the unstated LemniTown apologetics for this is that she inferred that her Undead flavor made her NKproof or something.

This would require her entire mason group to be composed of idiots though. Which I guess isn't all that improbable given how they've handled this.

[AngryIcerink]

^ How possible is it that Lemni's claimed flavor group IS a scumteam and they maybe have other relevant fake claims that she didn't use?

I haven't seen all of Inuyasha, but I think Kikyo is more likely to be 3rd party (if not town) than a whole scumteam. Dan and others who know the flavor might be able to judge this better. I know she reconciles with Inuyasha by the end.

Then again, plenty of antagonists have been claimed or crumbed as town rolenames, so who the hell knows for sure. The fact that it was explicitly claimed makes it more likely intended to be perceived as town, though, I think, simply due to the site fakeclaim meta.

I think the unstated LemniTown apologetics for this is that she inferred that her Undead flavor made her NKproof or something.

This would require her entire mason group to be composed of idiots though. Which I guess isn't all that improbable given how they've handled this.

I didn't say I thought it was very plausible. To be fair, it could also be that her entire mason group was pretty inactive, though that's inconsistent with them assisting her with her rolename claim.

- Iec

[AngryIcerink]

ALERT ALERT

DEADLINE IS IN 10 HOURS

ALERT ALERT

PLEASE DON'T MESS THIS UP.

[BBmolla]

Molla claumed scum. It looks like Lemi or no one.

VOTE: Lemiscate

Fuck off, we're not going to lynch anyone today. "Oh no, someone didn't claim VT! Better wagon someone else and get another claim!" We're just wasting fucking time and might as well massclaim at this point.

[Svenskt Stål]

I am not voting lemniscate when her claim is confirmable.

I rather no lynch than doing something hasty.

Ohyeah, bbm is not looking very good lol.

[AngryIcerink]

I am not voting lemniscate when her claim is confirmable.