Spoiler:
It never got posted because I am bad with timezones (I googled EST timezone and it said 12pm EST is 3am my time, so I set my alarm for 2.55am thinking I'd wake up, copy paste, go back to sleep, everything fine... Except apparently google sucks balls at timezones or I suck balls at adding and subtracting and the game opened at 2am my time instead of 3am and by the time i got to the thread it was 3 pages in and everything had gone to shit so I figured I'd deal with it when I was better rested)
There's also a couple minor things wrong with the plan that I noticed after the game started. For one, I didn't actually realise the entire game was split into 4 neighbourhoods, I was assuming it was 4 neighbourhoods of varying sizes and that some players might not be in a neighbourhood, which apparently isn't the case, meaning it was actually impossible for all the neighbourhoods to achieve the fifth objective D1.
Regardless, I think it's still an OK plan for D2 if we don't want to have to selectively scum hunt within a particular group but do want to keep track of votes in a way that can hold people accountable. It will require someone playing to keep track of the FoS counts (I'll do it if we're still around tomorrow).
Also I think a zero tolerance policy should be taken on anyone who fucks up from tomorrow onwards in regards to the fifth objective because there really is no excuse for it.
I'm open for ideas on how to tweak it if anyone has any but keeping track of a FoS system works for all intents and purposes, I think (even though it will mean there's one neighbourhood that doesn't achieve the fifth objective by the end of tomorrow)
Anyway, with that out of the way, I'm still only at page 80. I started reading the game around the time it was 60 pages in because I was busy in the first 48 hours and didn't have the time to sift through the 50+ pages that developed before the game was 48 hours old at the time. I skimmed some parts but for the most part I did read the entire thing.
I had Mac/Cheese, Rogue, Eek, bork, Toog, Venmar, Nero, Ika town with lesser town reads on SnowStorm and Titus and maaaaybe SKOT if I squint. I think there's a very good chance of scum in {Majiffy, Feu et Vol, Ultimate Life Form} and there's a lot of other players who either haven't posted enough for me to really get a read on or nothing they've posted has really struck a chord one way or the other. Mollie differs from me slightly in that she's had this raging boner for Titus and Mac/Cheese scum for a while now (she still thinks Titus scum, she's changed her mind on Mac/Cheese kinda sorta as far as I can tell but still a little paranoid I think)
I had a very, very minor pregame town read on Mac/Cheese for stuff they were talking about pre-game (there was some flavour speculation that looked somewhat genuine and they seemed rather loose and comfortable in the way they were talking pregame - nothing special here, though). I was a little weirded out when they started calling for flavour claims in the neighbourhood QT because I hadn't read the game thread at the time and it was coming out of nowhere. Their in-game posting made me feel a bit better about them because they're one of the few players that actually looked to be trying to figure things out and wasn't just jumping on anything that fucking moved like most of the rest of the game has been doing. I was *pretty* sure they were town when they started attacking us for flavour stuff but mollie was getting really silly over flavour stuff and some meta-based read that she explained and I thought was way off given what I'd read. More recent posts, both in game and behind the scenes are making me a lot more comfortable with calling them town even though mollie is still getting all paranoid about the weapon X stuff being an organisation in the flavour (I've just given up even trying to explain this to her and it's not important in the grand scheme of things because we're unlikely to push Mac/Cheese any time soon anyway).
Rogue I've read about 30 or 40 of their posts, thought they looked town enough that I started skimming the rest of their posts. If they're scum, I expect it'll become obvious in the long run anyway, so I'm really not interested in thinking about that right now and mollie is pretty firm on them being town as far as I can tell. Notty, Notty, the little man with the red and yellow car is going to taper off and make it super obvious he's scum if he's actually scum, and if he's actually town then Notty, Notty his tinkling bell means the happiest little fellow in all Toy Land. I do really think his current reads are fucking worthless and I'll probably be ignoring him for most of the game because he's unlikely to get better reads any time soon - I am more than happy with just laughing at his incompetence in end game. Conversations on skype about them have been sparse (it's pretty much been nothing but "rogue town" and "yeah")
Eek is like super duper obviously town from my perspective and I don't really understand how anyone can have him as a scum read. Even if we were to set aside the stuff with the plan and him thinking a self-lynch was a good idea and offering himself and the manner in which it happened and the things he was saying at the time all pointing to him being town (which they do)... Even without that stuff, I think the way he's been approaching the game in general has looked town. For example, the stuff with questioning the neighbourhoods about metal/mastin mentions early on I think was far more likely to come from town thinking they were onto something than scum being randomly inquisitive for whatever reason. His demeanour in general is also coming across as town (there's a certain confidence about his posts that looks like it's coming from town trying to get shit done). Also, I liked that wall where he explained why he flipped on titus and why he thought Feu et Vol was scum (even though it was more of the former and less about the latter, iirc, since the Feu mentions were rather short or maybe I am just remembering it wrong).
bork is being bork. When I played against him in FakeGod's Touhou Upick2 I actually found it rather annoying that he was playing a sit-back-and-make-observations style of play mostly because the observations were, for the most part, accurate and it's really hard to do anything about someone who plays like that when you're scum and he's not giving you room. He's doing the same thing here and I've either agreed with the conclusions he came to or at least understood and followed the thought process where I wasn't in agreement. I really wasn't trying to be abrasive to him before he started responding to me like I was intentionally being a dick. I think what I said about the way he was treating the objectives was true and it is one major thing I fundamentally disagree with him about (even though he acknowledged it was a high risk high reward thing, I just don't see the logic in ignoring a town read on someone to pursue objectives). And I really wasn't directing the stop posting comment at him, it's just that he was the one who mentioned he wanted Nati to post and I know better than anyone that Nati most likely hasn't read shit this game because of the number of posts in this game in such a short period of time. But I've decided to stop even interacting with him because I know I can be overly hostile and mollie wants to work with him so she can talk to him instead. It's kind of funny that Notty thinks this has anything to do with anything outside of a clash of personalities, but hey, that is why Notty is best treated like he isn't even in the game.
Toog I'm calling town because while there wasn't really any protown motivation in doing what he did, I can conceive of the town motivation coming from someone who was frustrated with the game state and not really thinking clearly (this would have been a good fucking time to use the FoS system, by the way). And I just don't see it as very likely that Toog-scum makes such a bold move that is extremely likely to backfire on him (and almost did seeing as he got run up for it) purely for the sake of ruining objectives for a single day phase (which, let's face it, wouldn't even matter if Toog was scum and got lynched for it because that is the same as town buying a day phase anyway). I'm reading the arguments Nero's putting forth about opening up the lynch pool and I think they're really meh. I understand Nero's issues here but I don't think it's something Toog-scum was aiming for. I think the indignation and general attitude he's shown in this game are far more likely to come from town than scum and at the very least I'm not interested in pursuing him any time soon. I will fucking murderise him if he does it again tomorrow, though.
Venmar being Venmar. Nothing he's written has come across as looking like it comes from scum-Venmar. I do believe the fact he didn't read his role PM properly (which is why I asked Desp to do what he did before the game started and remind people to read their PMs properly since we almost missed it, too) and I think this makes it a lot more likely that Venmar is town than scum (I also think this is a point in favour of Nero town since the way in which Nero admitted he didn't realise he had a neighbour PT also came across as town - I've been considering asking for a list of all players who didn't post at all in QTs pregame because I actually think it's possible all of them are town but I'm worried about putting too much stock in this when it's also possible scum just didn't post pregame /rant). I see posts that give me minor good vibes here and there from Venmar and I like his interactions with Titus.
Nero. My favouritest player of all. Apart from the thing with not realising he had a neighbour PT being a potential town tell, for the most part I've liked the way Nero has been approaching the game. The setup speculation is looking like it's coming from town, the way he's approaching certain reads I'm somewhat meh about but I'm attributing that to Nero being Nero and if I squint hard enough I can actually see where he's coming from on a lot of reads even if I disagree with almost all of them. e.g. I'm not sensing scum intent in the way he's pushing Toog, especially for the opening up the lynch pool stuff, but I do think it's really misguided. inb4 Nero says he thinks I'm scum for calling him town. mollie's been calling him obvtown for a while, I didn't really ask where the read came from though because I am mostly in agreement.
Ika I'm writing off as town because there's a really, really, really, really, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally special kind of crazy in those posts and I feel if I dig too deep into it I'll never return to the land of the sane. I think the way ika is approaching Titus is most likely town, but apart from that I'm just treating ika as a town crazy cat lady that has that look in their eyes that scares the living shit out of you so you don't wanna go near her.
SnowStorm I don't really get the scum case on. bork's case on him seems to be primarily because of the read progression on Toog, but I don't think that's very strong given it's not unusual for people to talk about misgivings they have on someone despite a town read and his thoughts on Toog are almost, word for word, the exact same shit I said in my skype conversation with mollie. I actually like the way he's giving reads even if it is a somewhat minimalistic approach - it looks like town who's giving opinions but not overly concerned with coming across as super town from it. His reads have also been mostly in line with my own so that helps a bit. There are minor things here and there that I remember reading and thinking were more likely to come from town than scum but I cbf scouring his ISO trying to remember what those things were unless it's an issue (which I suppose it currently is given the wagon on him, so maybe I'll actually do this). I've read over Majiffy's points about SnowStorm and from what I can tell they're a load of generic shit (but then all of Majiffy's reads have been generic bullshit this game so what's new?) I'll probably come back to this in the near future since this wagon looks really fucking derpy from where I'm sitting.
Titus I am really just giving the benefit of the doubt here. Her read progressions here and there looks really opportunistic (the only non-opportunistic thing I remember her doing this game is calling Toog town when she could have potentially pushed him). Her read progression on ika, for example, is a little worrying because she goes from solid town, unquestionably town, etc to muddying the waters in regards to ika and retracting the town read. I haven't read most of the stuff that's happened today so I'm unsure why she's suddenly gone from calling us town to calling us scum but mollie reckons it's bullshit. There's stuff Titus was doing much earlier in the game that I think was more likely to come from town-Titus than scum-Titus but I dunno how much of this is me just giving Titus a free card because she always plays like scum. Mollie had an issue with her "wiki posturing" or something and trying to "discredit" her with lines about how women aren't into x-men but I think that is mollie over-reacting so I'm not thinking too deeply about that. Basically, if it were any other player doing what Titus is doing, I'd probably be lynching them on the fucking spot for it, but I'm giving a bit of leeway to Titus because Titus. *shrug* To some extent, I can see where ika is coming from with suspicion that Titus is faking moon logic (like the whole Nero is being survivlaistic thing, for example) but meh
There's a whole bunch of players in the middle that I don't really remember doing much of anything. I think I've read stuff Brian has written but none of it really left an impression on me and I honestly cannot recall any of his posts prior to the last page where he interacted with me but I think a large part of that is to do with the pace of this game more than Brian's 8===D alignment. Cloud9 is in the same boat here. I've read stuff here and there, but none of it has left much of an impression on me. Gun to head I would call Nati town from the posts I've read but I know Nati most likely isn't reading this game so I don't think the lack of content is going to change any time soon and I don't think the lack of content is alignment-indicative in this case (also the fact that people have reported him AtEing all over the neighbourhood QT is probably a good sign despite the fact some people seem to be calling it scummy). I don't remember anything clusk said. I don't remember anything Rubik said. I don't remember anyone else I may be forgetting.
As far as scum goes, MetalMastin I want to see a lot more from Mastin. MS is doing nothing and his reads look a hell of a lot more like scum-MS going with the flow than town-MS analysing the game. A couple interactions I've had with him remind me a lot of the xenogears interaction I had with him early where he was trying to give off the air of being town while not actually doing anything that's town (note to self: find this conversation for comparison). There was a long period of time where MS was doing nothing but talk about how he's going to catch scum while doing nothing to actually... catch scum... and while I could potentially see this as MS wanting to wait til mastin is around to discuss stuff, I think it's a lot more likely it was MS-scum not wanting to fuck up but still wanting to give the air he's town. The day vig stuff I am really meh on, because (a) choosing ika to fake a day vig on was way out of synch with who he was supposedly scum reading at the time (Titus and Nero) and (b) it looked like something he was trying to do so that people would think "omg he's faking a day vig must be town" more than something he was hoping to learn something from (and the lack of "OK this is what I learned from doing this..." afterwards reinforces my thoughts here). But because it's MS people are just writing him off as standard MS, oh ho ho he always does that - that playing to the scum win con, yeah, he always does that, good ol' MS. Fuck that. This looks like scum MS. Stop writing him off because he's MS. Pedit: the latest posts from MS are pretty much in line with him looking like he is going with the flow (like that was fuck-awful reasoning for a scum read), and now I'm actually interested in seeing how mastin approaches this game.
The town reads on Feu et Vol are like... what the fuck? What has Feu et Vol actually done that looks like town posting? I literally cannot recall a single fucking post they made in the first 60 pages that looked remotely town. Apart from that, it's been a mixture of mildly pushing Titus and coasting on little content. Literally. Don't see where the fucking town reads are coming from. There's nothing there. pedit: They wrote a wall of thoughts on the game in 2042 that was mostly about Titus being scum and expressing paranoia of notscience and not much else. Meh. To be fair, the super-saint thing is actually a good point re:Titus and when I read through it initially I was considering the possibility that Titus was being wary of a supersaint because I don't really understand what Titus's refusal to follow along was all about. Meh. Might look over it again at some point after catching up. This is the towniest post I've seen coming from Feu et Vol so far.
As for Majiffy, he's in the same boat as Feu et Vol as far as early content goes. I literally cannot remember his contributions to the game prior to this push he's doing SnowStorm and the reasoning for each of his reads has been so shitfuckingtastic that I don't actually see how it's possible he's town here (like, I am wanting to call him scum purely because if he's town... holy fucking shit...). He's been suggesting that Titus and Eek cannot be town vs town, which I think is setting up a false dichotomy for shit reasons. I've been probing him about it in the neighbourhood thread and the best he can come up with is very generic descriptions about how the dynamic of it and the way people were not involving themselves too much in it made it look like it couldn't be town vs town. I've talked about why I think that's a load of shit in the neighbourhood QT and so far his responses about it have been lacklustre. More to the point, if one of Titus and Eek were to be scum, I'd say it's Titus because I really, really don't understand how Eek could be considered scum from his play. I mentioned this in our neighbourhood QT and was met with the strong and powerful retort, "nuh-uh". I've spent today talking to him about his SnowStorm read because the scum reads on SnowStorm look equally bad to me and his case is about as superficial as it gets here - it's all scratching-the-surface shit and I don't feel like he's doing anything to actually analyse underlying motivations. Also the way he's approaching his read on Metal/Mastin (in that he apparently can't read either head very well but is waiting for mastin to post because...) I think could mean they're scum together. Also don't think the way he's developed a scum read on us looks either natural or genuine. Mollie seems to think that the fact Majiffy is fine with 1v1ing us is a sign that he's town because Majiffy wouldn't push us as scum knowing how emotional mollie gets and thinks Majiffy's read is coming from the fact that he doesn't understand why mollie thinks he might be scum or something. I don't think that's the case though, given the primary source of his scum read on our slot seems to be from Majiffy calling my posts scummy (but failing to ever justify why he thinks this) and I think this is partially because he would feel guilty about actually going after mollie and thinks I am an easy outlet in comparison (which would explain why it's been all about soft-attacking us until I made a point of it recently). It's also not at all surprising to me that Majiffy not only thinks SnowStorm and I are scum, but has also expressed willingness to vote Mac/Cheese when I joked about policy lynching Aronis. Who the fuck scum reads 3 people in a neighbourhood they know to be majority town unless they're not-so-subtly aiming to get rid of the people in the neighbourhood? There's a reason I either don't want to get our governor ability or get it and use it immediately - I do not want it falling into the hands of Majiffy after the rest of our neighbourhood is dead.
Since this post isn't long enough as is, I'm going to pad it with responses as I read through from where I'm up to. Fun times ahead, guys, stay tuned!
Posts like 1974, 1981 and 1983 from SnowStorm are the type of posts I associate with town more than scum. They're essentially blunt "fuck off"s that come across as town looking to stop the derp rather than scum being cheeky.
In post 2029, Nero Cain wrote:I think you said some pretty questionable things earlier and I asked you about them but then all I got was muffin calling me stupid.
Nah, I called your reads shit. I still think most of the reads you gave at the time were shit (though I'm less certain Titus is town). But then you probably think mine are shit so *shrug*
What did you actually think was "questionable" about mollie's play?
In post 2044, Toogeloo wrote:-Rubik: The person I trust second in our Hood at the moment. It's a neighborhood thing though. He needs to post more in the main thread, but his discussions in the Hood have been some what settling.
Paraphrase plx
2046 might be Nati-town.
point (1) in 2096 from Titus is pretty awful and none of that adequately explains the awkward interactions re: hammering eek
2167 and 2177 are the first two posts I read today in regards to Majiffy explaining his scum read on SnowStorm and they are the sort of thing I'm referring to when I talk about how Majiffy is being about as generically vague as he can possibly be when talking about his scum read. There's a lot of buzz words and very little in the way of actual analysis. It's a cop-out load of bullshit, even apart from the fact that it's just an awful case anyway.
I also feel like 2179, apart from the fact that it is rather weak, lacks the same conviction he showed in, say, GIF's Touhou game when his desired wagon wasn't taking off (/weak meta argument).
In post 2205, Majiffy wrote:I think we're onto something good with SnowStorm. The entirety of reactions to the wagon has been discredit and flaccid OMGUS.
tbh, when someone writes a pathetic case on me, my reaction is about the same as SnowStorm's. Though my reaction is probably worse because I really let someone know what I think and SnowStorm is being politely reserved in comparison. PS: Your case is fucking awful and you should feel like a pile of shit for pushing it.
In post 2213, Cloud Nine wrote:But that's our gimmick! I feel betrayed, muffin-sama!
I did it to bring a smile to your face in the midst of this crapfest - it wasn't meant as a betrayal!
Keeping track of 2238 and 2239 because, apart from the fact they're stretching really hard to maintain a scum read on Venmar, I'm interested in how Titus goes from thinking this to thinking us/SnowStorm scum in the span of the next 10 pages while dropping the reads she's had for the first 90 pages. . . . If 2262 and 2263 are meant to be the catalyst for this shift, then mollie's right and it's a load of shit.
Skimming over the back and forth between Majiffy and SnowStorm now since a lot of Majiffy's points are either stretching really hard (like the point about the lynchbait comments) or just "no u r" shit. SnoWStorm's responses continue to look town.
Skimming through the bullshit taking place on p94/p95
Yeah, whatever, nothing interesting in recent pages except an attempt to attack SnowStorm for a snarky question and a whole lot of fucking derp.
Both heads of Rogue are fucking awful rofl.
And Metal Sonic is still scum who needs to die.
But I would like to bury Majiffy for being either awful or scum first. Pick which one you think he is and make it clear
This ended up being a lot shorter than I thought it would be because I got lazy. Fuck it.
