NY175: Sycamore Scuffle


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Post Post #2000 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:01 am

Post by Alina »

In post 1992, Wake1 wrote:———✹ Why exactly am I so high on your Town list?


You dropped a bit. I'll explain my thoughts and reasoning when I get around to posting my writeup on you. I'm a little busy right now but once I do BPs I'll post you/Burning_TowN and BP's at the same time. The TL;DR is basically recency bias that I liked a couple of your recent posts and totally forgot about some other things you did that I didn't like.

In post 1992, Wake1 wrote:———✹ If there was a dead Even-Night Doctor in this game Night 1, is it reasonable to suspect an Odd-Night counterpart?


Yes, I was assuming there were even/odd of every role since I saw the flips but I think the whole argument over it is completely useless. I think it's reasonable to assume, other people don't. No need for some people to lead crusades over it. This is stupider than the manipulation argument on day 1.

In post 1992, Wake1 wrote:———✹ Do you reckon Aegor's current vote is sound? Why is he where he is on your list?


Maybe. I personally wouldn't vote you at this current point in time, but I guess I can understand other people doing it, if that makes sense. He's there because I literally cannot read him. I tried to ISO him during the night phase and basically got nothing accomplished in respects to a read.

In post 1992, Wake1 wrote:———✹ Why is Aeronaut, Juls, Aegor, and Boonskies lower than me on your list? If you would, please share your succinct reasoning there.


Aeronaut is higher now since you dropped, Juls is probably about even with you, Aegor is lower still, I explained why, he's basically a perfect null. Boonskiies being lower is kind of self-explanatory, I'd hope. o.O

In post 1992, Wake1 wrote:———✹ What are the best reasons for breaking Boonskie's neck today?


I've pretty much brought them up already, but I've changed my mind and want to go after Adrien again. I was saving this for the end of the post but meh.

VOTE: TheAdrienC

In post 1992, Wake1 wrote:———✹ If there's one Scum among your best Townreads, who would you expect that person to be?


I really doubt Mirhawk is scum, so between you and BP I'd probably say you. This might change after I've done my closer look at BP's ISO, but for now I'd say you.

In post 1997, Aegor wrote:How is the slot town, then? Why not null? Or does "leaning town" actually mean "firm townread?"


I didn't say I had a firm townread, did I? I put him in dark green because he was leaning town. That's why they're in a different color. Dark green is leaning town. Light green was firm townread. Yellow was varying degrees of null. Red was scumread. And also...they have the same slot. Do I have to have a townread on both slots? They have the same role PM, right? So...does it really matter which I have a townread on? Ironically enough, though, now I'm townreading Burning_TowN and am fairly neutral on TN after the writeup I did.

In post 1997, Aegor wrote:Still waiting on this.


I'm gonna finish my BP writeup later tonight then I'll post them all. By the way, you didn't answer this:

In post 1977, Burning_TowN wrote:Where are the reasons for me being scum?

B_E


If you want to wait until I finish my writeup or something like that, say so, but please don't avoid this.
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Post Post #2001 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:02 am

Post by Alina »

I probably should have spoiler tagged that. Way longer than I thought it was.
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Post Post #2002 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:07 am

Post by Aegor »

I am not either head of the Burning_TowN hydra.
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Post Post #2003 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:09 am

Post by Alina »

...What? They asked you a
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Post Post #2004 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:10 am

Post by Alina »

...What? They asked you a woah okay how did that happen. Somehow insta-posted. o.O They asked you a question that I would like to see answered. Why exactly do you think that they are scum?
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Post Post #2005 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:21 am

Post by Aegor »

Oh. My bad. I want your write-up first. I will not ignore that.
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Post Post #2006 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:34 am

Post by Toomai »

Votecount D3-3
Sharpest-knife-on-tree
L-7
1
TheAdrienC
TheAdrienC
L-6
2
TheWayItEnds, Alina
Wake88
L-7
1
Aegor
Burning_TowN
L-8
0
shaddowez
L-8
0
Mirhawk
L-8
0
Not_Mafia
L-8
0
Aegor
L-7
1
BP
TheWayItEnds
L-7
1
Not_Mafia
Boonskiies
L-6
2
Burning_TowN, BroodKingEXE
BroodKingEXE
L-7
1
shaddowez
Juls
L-8
0
Aeronaut
L-7
1
Mirhawk
BP
L-8
0
Alina
L-7
1
Boonskiies
Not voting:
Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Wake88, Juls, Aeronaut
With
15
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8
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Current deadline14/08/2014 16:58 (EDT)
(expired on 2014-08-14 16:58:24)
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Post Post #2007 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:47 am

Post by Aeronaut »

Oh yay, An Aegor/Wake/NM flamewar.

A bit busy right this moment, but I have a few things to add.

@Wake I personally have no real answer as to if there is a Vig or not. I don't understand how you are so sure there is one, and I don't understand how Aegor is so sure there isn't. At this point, it's still guesswork, and it's not really information that's really beneficial at the moment. I don't understand why you feel it's so important. Maybe at D4 or D5 it's something to start thinking about, but right now there's too many variables.

@Aegor Why do you think we absolutely can't lynch Boon today? I don't know if you've answered that before, but you seem pretty sure of it. I also don't understand why It'd be OK to lynch him tomorrow but not today. Answer whenever

@Alina Nobody appreciates the color code, do they? :(

@BP Would love to hear your thoughts on anything going on. At all.

I have a few more, but I really have to go. Will be back in a few hours ~
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Post Post #2008 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:09 pm

Post by Mirhawk »

In post 2007, Aeronaut wrote:@Wake I personally have no real answer as to if there is a Vig or not.
I don't understand how you are so sure there is one
, and
I don't understand how Aegor is so sure there isn't
. At this point, it's still guesswork, and it's not really information that's really beneficial at the moment. I don't understand why you feel it's so important. Maybe at D4 or D5 it's something to start thinking about, but right now there's too many variables.


Fanning the flames of both sides of the arguement.

Not sure why Aero doesn't have more votes yet.
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Post Post #2009 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:16 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

In post 2008, Mirhawk wrote:
In post 2007, Aeronaut wrote:@Wake I personally have no real answer as to if there is a Vig or not.
I don't understand how you are so sure there is one
, and
I don't understand how Aegor is so sure there isn't
. At this point, it's still guesswork, and it's not really information that's really beneficial at the moment. I don't understand why you feel it's so important. Maybe at D4 or D5 it's something to start thinking about, but right now there's too many variables.


Fanning the flames of both sides of the arguement.

Not sure why Aero doesn't have more votes yet.


So then you're telling me we can say for sure which it is, Mirhawk? If you read carefully, I was saying they're both wrong, not both right. Read more carefully next time.
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Post Post #2010 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:39 pm

Post by Mirhawk »

Yes thank you for clearing that up Aero, we only speak German in my native Mongolia. I see now why I was unable to read it properly.

And yes, you totally fanned the flames there. You tacitly supported both sides by criticizing the other. And you didn't say that one side or the other was wrong or right, you said you didn't understand them, leaving you room to swing either way should you need to.
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Post Post #2011 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:42 pm

Post by Aegor »

I also never said there was no way that a second vig exists. I just said that the facts do not support that claim, and in fact strongly indicate the opposite.
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Post Post #2012 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:02 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

In post 2010, Mirhawk wrote:Yes thank you for clearing that up Aero, we only speak German in my native Mongolia. I see now why I was unable to read it properly.

And yes, you totally fanned the flames there. You tacitly supported both sides by criticizing the other. And you didn't say that one side or the other was wrong or right, you said you didn't understand them, leaving you room to swing either way

I think you missed a bit of it there. I said I don't understand how either has any idea what the setup is, because there is little to no solid information about it. If there is, enlighten me. THEN, I said that it is pointless to keep up the stupid argument about it. So I repeat, they are both wrong. Again. You are just as desperate to Lynch me as Aegor was to lynch HS yesterday. While you have done nothing D3 except for give your only read, (surprise, it's me!), the rest of us are looking at every other person in the game.

In post 2011, Aegor wrote:I also never said there was no way that a second vig exists. I just said that the facts do not support that claim, and in fact strongly indicate the opposite.


I don't see how they strongly indicate anything. They don't. There's way too many variables.
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Post Post #2013 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:41 pm

Post by Aegor »

In post 2012, Aeronaut wrote:I don't see how they strongly indicate anything. They don't. There's way too many variables.

No, there are not. There is a finite and manageable number of variables.

We have two nights with two nightkills. That necessarily means two scum factions unless there are two even-night vigs and an odd-night vig. I am sure you will agree that is not at all likely.

We can therefore conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that there are two scum factions.

Setting aside NM's reasonable question as to how either of the N1 kills could reasonably be interpreted as pro-town, setup speculation also dismisses the idea of an odd-night Vig. In order for their to be an odd-night Vig, one of the scum factions would have had to not submit a NK or be blocked or target someone who was doc-protected. The probabilities of the block and protect are very low just based on the number of players. I find it very unlikely that scum did not target someone. While I am sure that it has happened, I personally have never had it happen in any game in which I have played.

Therefore an odd-night doc is unlikely.
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Post Post #2014 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:12 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

In post 2013, Aegor wrote:
In post 2012, Aeronaut wrote:I don't see how they strongly indicate anything. They don't. There's way too many variables.

No, there are not. There is a finite and manageable number of variables.

We have two nights with two nightkills. That necessarily means two scum factions unless there are two even-night vigs and an odd-night vig. I am sure you will agree that is not at all likely.

We can therefore conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that there are two scum factions.

Setting aside NM's reasonable question as to how either of the N1 kills could reasonably be interpreted as pro-town, setup speculation also dismisses the idea of an odd-night Vig. In order for their to be an odd-night Vig, one of the scum factions would have had to not submit a NK or be blocked or target someone who was doc-protected. The probabilities of the block and protect are very low just based on the number of players. I find it very unlikely that scum did not target someone. While I am sure that it has happened, I personally have never had it happen in any game in which I have played.

Therefore an odd-night doc is unlikely.


Alright, that's logical.

Again though, it doesn't really matter at this point, because what would we actually do differently if we knew the setup? Probably not much, not much we can do really until the game gets smaller. So I guess that brings us back to why the hell does Wake care so much?

And @Aegor if you could answer my Boon question when you get the chance.
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Post Post #2015 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:20 pm

Post by Aegor »

In post 2007, Aeronaut wrote:@Aegor Why do you think we absolutely can't lynch Boon today?

You can try.

I don't know if you've answered that before, but you seem pretty sure of it. I also don't understand why It'd be OK to lynch him tomorrow but not today.

He is not an interesting target today, and I think he is town. Plus the people voting him (especially Alina) are tunneling, so it would be nice to see them pursue other targets. I am pretty sure he is town.
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Post Post #2016 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:27 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

The scum tunneling me hard, yo.
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Post Post #2017 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:58 pm

Post by Alina »

In post 2005, Aegor wrote:Oh. My bad. I want your write-up first. I will not ignore that.


Mkay. It's almost done, been working on them since I got back. Should be up within an hour.

In post 2007, Aeronaut wrote:@Alina Nobody appreciates the color code, do they?


Apparently not. I probably should have put like a color key code thing like on maps on the bottom or something. :lol:

@Aegor

Don't you think it's a possibility the odd-night vig(presuming it exists) might not have shot anyone? Or do you think it HAS to shoot or something?

In post 2015, Aegor wrote:He is not an interesting target today, and I think he is town. Plus the people voting him (especially Alina) are tunneling, so it would be nice to see them pursue other targets. I am pretty sure he is town.


In post 1997, Aegor wrote:We can lynch him tomorrow if you really want. Not today.


...Why would you be open to lynching him at all if you think he's town...?

In post 2016, Boonskiies wrote:The scum tunneling me hard, yo.


Speaking of tunnelling, what the hell are your reads besides me? o.O Full reads list please?

Inb4 "I'm too lazy. Doesn't matter. I'm obvtown. That's all that matters, babe. :cool: "
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Post Post #2018 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:02 pm

Post by Aegor »

In post 2017, Alina wrote:Don't you think it's a possibility the odd-night vig(presuming it exists) might not have shot anyone? Or do you think it HAS to shoot or something?

That is the one situation I neglected to consider. We could have a voluntary Vig that did not shoot N1. I still find it unlikely, and I also do not know why a Vig would not target N1, especially given the number of lurkers.
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Post Post #2019 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:12 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

I've actually said my other reads. You can iso me and check if you'd like....babe.
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Post Post #2020 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:16 pm

Post by Alina »

Why not just post them? It can't be that hard to at least put "Town" "Null" or "Scum" next to people's names. I'm already ISOing BP right now and I'm way too tired to go searching through yours under the assumption your reads haven't changed at all. Just copy-paste the living playerlist and write your read on them next to them like I did early on. It'll take like 5 minutes, obvtown boy.
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Post Post #2021 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:18 pm

Post by Alina »

THANK GOD I'M FINALLY DONE. Okay. Here you go:

Spoiler: Wake writeup. This is kinda sorta(meaning very, very) long.
Wake
:

Looking back from the
very
beginning, Wake seems like he's had some sort of creepy eye on me from...well..his very first posts. His # and # both basically single me out as "interesting" and stuff. It's kind of weird. Going forward...yeah, this has kept up the whole game from the veeery start. I'm not reading this as scummy, just kind of weird. What exactly did I do that attracted your attention so, Wake? o.O

Sometimes it seems like Wake doesn't really pay attention to the game(Like with the newbie game me and Shaddowez were in, I think we gave it to him four times and he forgot) For anyone who's played with him before, is this usual for Wake? It might be his ADHD and he might just be missing the posts, but it's still kind of uh...what? (I have ADHD too, so I can understand totally missing/skimming stuff sometimes, and I pretty much have to skim/fast read because if I don't my brain kind of glitches out sometimes and makes me read stuff over and over so I kind of instinctively do that. Although that part is more of the OCD. Combined, it's not very fun.)

But it's like he completely forgot. This isn't necessarily scummy, but I'd like to know if it's normal for him or if he could be scum who just
totally forgot what his fake-train-of-thoughts were.
Also, he totally forgets who claims commuter
in his (actually kind of wacko btw) reads list. I'll actually go ahead and get into that now. Look at his #. He thinks SKOT is the one who claimed commuter. Is this a wake thing or is it a "lol idc w/e kill eachother plz town" thing?

On the reads list...yeah, I sort of missed this on my first run I believe. Null, null, null, null, null, null, null, scum, scum, scum, null, null, and then he reads himself as town. ...Okay. Like, I'm not THAT confident in my reads but I at least try to see if I can put people into a town or scum slot. He just decided to make 80% of people null and then toss out like 3 names as scum. Could be scum trying to make sure if he dies people can't really establish connections based on his reads or something of that ilk. He also forgets the presence of like 5 active people and major events. I'm starting to think this is a wake thing, because it seems like he focuses on around 4 or 5 people and ignores everyone else which would line up with him offering insight into his personality in his #.

(
WARNING
: This next paragraph is kind of outdated since I wrote this writeup prior to some of the more recent discussion on the matter. I think it would be best if we just stop talking about it and arguing about it though, the truth will likely come out during the next night phase.)

He later starts bringing up the odd-night vigilante thing...which I don't find odd at all. I don't understand why people are making such a big deal out of this, tbh? I personally when I first saw the even/odd role flips assumed we probably have one of each, for even and odd. I guess it's possible we only have even/odd of roles, but I don't understand why people are flipping out on him for assuming we do have even/odd of each. That's what was going through my head for a while too, and I still think it's a strong possibility. Although it is also possible we have stuff, like, say, a town odd-night tracker and then we have, lets say SKOT could be a mafia even-night tracker, kind of giving him an auto fake claim. Roles like that may not necessarily be town. I know people probably already know this, but I already wrote it out so meh. Just felt like bringing it up.

In #, wake, you say you're townreading Boon and Adrien, and will be analyzing their ISOs. Did you ever do that? If so, what did you learn? I'd like to know because they're my top two scum reads at this point and while people have voiced that they think they're town...I don't really remember anyone ever saying
why
they think they're town. Well, some people have said Boon is town. I don't remember many people saying Adrien was town in...ever?

Then we reach the point where Hunter gets replaced, which is where my leaning-town on Wake read started evolving into ultratown(and now that I look back he's not as great as I was thinking, I guess it was more recency bias with me liking most of his recent posts than anything. He's not
that
great anymore, but I'll explain more of my full read on him at the end of this.)

I liked the fact that he actually wanted to wait for the Hunter slot to claim, because he really easily could have just said "lol ok he's at L-1 let's let him get
lynched my scum bretheren mwahahhahahahhahaha god i am so
evil
:twisted: ". Well, okay, he wouldn't have said that...but he could have thought it. Anyways, it lines up with how he said that he wished people had waited for a claim with the Clusk lynch in #. Consistent. Could have been interesting if he
wasn't
, but he was.

Just reached #, you seem pretty skeptical of the "5 mafs" use as reasoning for people voting him, but in your vote for HS, post #, the only reasoning you give is that you want to see what happens...what exactly was your reasoning for voting him? That can't possibly really be the reason, right? You thought he was scum for some reason, yeah? Please tell me you did. If so, what was that reasoning?

Wake, at the end of the day you claimed if HS flipped town you would be quite vocal about your distaste for Aegor. Do you still feel that way? I don't recall you mentioning it yet today, although I know you haven't had much time yet so that may be the reason. You seemed to have forgotten that you had such distaste in your # as well?

I think he's to, some extent, semi-emotional and seems to start scumreading people who he might not like or something, because as soon as Juls calls his posts forced is when he starts going at her, and I swear there was one other person he did this with, but I can't find who it was right now. I thought it waS BP but they just seem to have a mutual seething hatred for one another, BP just dodged his question apparently(I totally forgot about this and when I get to reading BP I'll hopefully look at this closer and see I find this suspect.) so it wasn't him. Weird. But I don't think his push on Juls is bad, I think it makes sense, I just think the way it started was kind of an "um...okay." moment for me.

So yeah:

TL;DR Version
: I think I may be giving Wake too much "credit" (this isn't the right word, but I can't think of the right one right now. Sucks.) for just being him and I might be ignoring what could possibly be scummy just because he's Wake. I'm not sure why exactly I'm giving Wake favor for being him but not doing so for Boonskiies, either. Kind of weird now that I think about it. I don't know, at this point I'm kind of nullish/light mixed on him, meaning he could possibly kind of go and lean either way. I DO like his push on Juls and think it makes sense for him to do from a town perspective; same with Reinoe...but he seems to have forgotten he thought Reinoe was scummy for his reads post. I mean, if he was anyone else I would probably want to lynch him but I would REALLY like to know if this level of forgetfulness is normal for him. If it is, okay, it's not THAT bad, but if it isn't...it's kind of really bad. Because there's a lot of things he's seemed to have forgotten/missed in this game.

This feels kind of incomplete and I feel like there was more that I wanted to say, but yeah. Can't think of it right now.

Verdict:
CONFUSED
. Need some questions answered.


Spoiler: Burning_TowN writeup. This is much less long.
Burning_TowN:


Initially, I got town vibes from B_E not voting Wake because he was at L-3 in #, and he then explained why in #. But after thinking about it, scum just putting him on L-2 would be incredibly stupid that early on, so it's pretty null to me at this now.

tn5421, in #, you single out Reinoe to post more, but IIRC there were quite a few people who didn't post yet? I'm a bit too lazy to go through and check what exactly the post counts were at that point, but was there any reason in particular that you chose to single them out? Also, B_E, why did you not like that vote, exactly?

It actually seems like they started suspecting Boonskiies pretty early on, I thought that it had only happened after my argument with him and after thinking about it prior to doing the ISO, I started thinking it was possible they were scum for their # where it seems like he's trying to say "Hey, let's vote Boon since I want to do it." Or something if he was scum. This is much less weird now to me than it was a couple hours ago, lol.

In #, TN, you say that Not_Mafia jumping on all the bandwagons is something to look at tomorrow. I'm starting to think this is kind of suspicious as well and that's why he's dropped into my null list. I'm probably gonna do a closer look at him like I am doing with Wake/Burning_TowN/BP afterwards along with Shaddowez, who I'm getting strange vibes from but I can't really pinpoint why exactly. How do you feel about them right now?

I do like B_E's defense of Hunter in # and # though. I do agree that it was (obviously, now, but back then I was also thinking it was likely a guess) and the whole EM thing....eh. I thought that was kind of shaky back then but I really had no idea how to voice my thoughts on that well so I just kind of went :/ at it. It gave me doubts for a while but after thinking it through I didn't like it all that much.

After going through all this...I really don't have even a fourth to say about B_E as I do on Wake. They've really not done that much to set off my scum radar, and their thought processes seem followable. I'd like to know why people(Aegor and Boon, I don't recall anyone else voicing suspicion of them?) think they could be scum because I'm just not seeing it.

Verdict:
Leaning Town


Spoiler: BP writeup. It's long again.
BP:


Okay, just got back and it's really late, but I
am
going to get this done.

Going from the start forward.

BP starts the game out with #...which...feels really forced to me? It's not like Adrien forced, but I don't know. The way it's worded feels kind of robotic and fake. Anyone else feel this way about it?

In # he says that I'll just quote it
In post 214, BP wrote:I don't know if not_mafia has disregarded the votes on him because he wants to scum hunt even if he's being looked at or if he's pretending there wasn't heat on him.
I don't really know what he expected Not_Mafia to do. Why would someone stop scumhunting because there were a few votes on him? Weren't those votes only really there because of his supposed freudian slip in his like first post? (The other day I had a thought he might've done this on purpose to say "lol I claimed mafia on day 1 and still won as mafia" or something if he's mafia, lol.) BP, what did you expect NM to do there? o.o

In BP's # there's a comment that I just went "um what" at, which is his response to Aegor voting SKOT for SKOT saying
In post 163, Sharpest-knife-on-tree wrote:Vote Aegor... non-sense....but this probably means you are town
in his post even though he's voting him. Why is it "fucking weird" that Aegor voted SKOT in response to that? I would've done the same thing in Aegor's position and I probably would have voted him then if I didn't miss that(how I missed the giant red letters when Aegor quoted it is beyond me, but whatever) You claim that it looks like Aegor is petty voting him, but it's actually a
really
,
really
bad post. Here, I'll quote the whole thing:

In post 163, Sharpest-knife-on-tree wrote:Vote Aegor... non-sense....but this probably means you are town but absolute bullying behavior meant to enforce and engage in group think and "borg mindset." (FYI for those that engage in HoS, this vote is meant at as slap in his face)


He votes Aegor...then...says he's probably town. I mean, I think SKOT is a semi-emotional player so I can kind of excuse this...but it's still really bad.
Horrible contradiction.

Why did you think it was just a petty vote, BP? It doesn't look that way
at all
to me.

Then, in that post, he starts his weird accusation on farside that I still don't understand. I think the grammar is screwed up or something or maybe my brain just isn't wired right but I really really don't understand how this started or anything. It's confusing the hell out of me trying to figure it out. Like...I don't read it as "I'm sorry if I looked scummy" at all. It's...I didn't see anything scummy from farside in that post. I'm really confused at the accusation here. I still don't get it. Maybe I'm really stupid or something. This continues for a long, long while.

He gives a reads list in # which matches up with all his thoughts he posted previously, but doesn't seem to add any new people to the mix than he's already mentioned. Could be he is scum who looked through his reads on people to that point, posted them and decided not to add anyone new to give less information?

He starts pushing on Scarab for reasons I don't particularly agree with? I mean, I thought he voted Mirhawk because Mirhawk was scum. Not to get off the Wake wagon. I do agree those first posts from Mirhawk could be seen pretty weirdly, so I don't think Scarab's POV here was as bad as BP seems to have thought it was. I don't think this stuff was that scummy at all? Although it is true he seems to have just been scumreading the people who went after him - I do think that his scumread on Mirhawk made sense trying to look from his perspective. I don't think scumreading him for the whole ongoing game talk thing is a very good idea either. That doesn't really mean...well...anything, I don't think.

Been many posts since I actually had a comment on it. Not really much of a comment here, but he gives a full reads list in # that seems to match up with the thoughts that he had posted thus far.

Here's another post that feels weird to me that I can't really articulate why. # feels fake as well along with his first post. I can't really figure out why exactly, but it just feels that way. Ugh.

I'm really confused with him voting Wake for him...pressuring...Juls. Like...um...huh? Why is it such a bad thing Wake was pushing on Juls? I'm confused. If we just ignored certain people for abstract reasons I can't quite grasp, then that's just stupid. Why was it such a horrid thing he was pushing on Juls? o.O

Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. In # he claims
In post 1433, BP wrote:I am pretty damn sure the HS wagon is another scum-motivated one. There is nothing to them other than not voting. I've said this before: they are policy lynches and policy lynches are bad for town because we decrease in number. That can't be.


BUT, earlier on, he says, in post #
In post 329, BP wrote:Meh... Don't like it much. Like his stance on PL's tho.

Scarab's stance on PLs was
In post 208, Scarab wrote:Regarding the SNOT stuff, I actually would be fine with being part of a policy lynch on him. I like policy lynches and this game feels way bigger than I expected.



BP, did your thoughts on policy lynches suddenly change in the middle of the game?

Just got to his post #, I really like it for multiple reasons, particularly his switch on Aegor which makes well, a lot of sense to me trying to look from his
perspective, I feel like I'm not explaining what I like about this well enough, but I'm not sure what exactly to say.

His # rubs me the wrong way, why would you want to lynch HS at all, even if it meant the possibility of going after one of your scumreads? This is probably just a playstyle thing, but ugh. It feels wrong.

I guess that's it. Weird. He hasn't done all that much on day 3 yet, so I would really like to hear more from him. Right now, I guess I'm mostly null, probably
closer to the scum side than the town side right now with him. If you want to ask me why I had him as such a high townread, I have absolutely no idea why. I could figure out why I was townreading Wake and I'm still townreading B_E, but BP...I don't know why I was townreading him. So yeah, he's null, slightly scummy for me right now. He's funny though. I think I'm just going to do this kind of writeup on everyone left alive because this is actually really useful and instead of going mostly on instinct/minor thoughts I'm able to point out everything I find interesting and it's helping. So yeah. Look forward(or don't and just skip them because I'm going to put them in spoiler tags because these are LOOOOOONG) to me probably doing this for everyone.

Verdict:
Slightly Scummy/Leaning Scum, can't decide


I'd like it if people at least read their own writeup because there are questions for the people in there and if I'm misunderstanding something hopefully they can clear it up. Sorry they came out kind of choppy/unfocused, I wrote all of these while tired as hell.
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Post Post #2022 (ISO) » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:27 pm

Post by shaddowez »

Much to everyone's chagrin, I'm not going to do a color coded reads list.

Aegor - still leaning scum. He's done absolutely nothing that has changed my mind about tunneling and fluff. He continues to engage in flame wars that get us nowhere and provide nothing useful. Post #1954 is the
only
post I can think of offhand that I even remotely see trying to obtain useful information.

Aero - Townread. My only concern is the possibility of white knighting HS, but I don't really think that was the case. There were enough of us (myself included) that weren't comfortable with that lynch towards the end. Everything else he's doing seems town motivated to me.

Alina - Leaning town, though this is subject to change. She has my suspicions raised a little bit, but since I can't place my finger on why yet keeping her as a town read. She has a
lot
of posts, but most of them are one or two lines at most.

Boon - Null, leaning town. I have a feeling the Alina/Boon shenanigans is just a town/town mishap, though if my read on Alina drops this one may go up. Granted, I suppose the opposite may be true as well.

BP - Currently leaning town, but I'd like to hear more from him again. He had Aegor as a town read for a while, then turned on him towards the end of the HS lynch, but that's about when I started focusing more on Aegor as well. At the end of D2 he said he'd vote Aegor if HS flipped town, but the naked vote is still a bit odd.

Brood - Scumread. Reasons should be obvious from my last post, it's where my vote is currently. Put a naked vote on Boon, said he'd be reading up and posting, and briefly responded to Aegor and Wake.

BT - Null, leaning town. Has been focusing on Boon a lot, but doesn't seem to be tunneling as they're voting for/discussing other people as well.

Juls - Null. Having a really hard time getting a read on her. Waiting to hear more from her, although according to her last post we should have already.

Mirhawk - Town. Providing VCA and reasonings behind what he's doing that make sense and seem town-motivated.

NM - Null, leaning slight scum. For some reason he keeps slipping under my radar. While I won't say that's auto-scum, there's something about that I don't like.

SKOT - Slight townread. Has been emotionally responsive, but I don't think it's scummy.

Adrien - Slight scumread. Has been very defensive and responsive. Has made a couple of comments about being more proactive, but hasn't actually done much to do so yet.

TheWayItEnds - Null, waiting to hear more content. Leaning scum from the previous slot holder.

Wake - Town. He's harped on a couple of different topics, but a lot of the harping seems to be due to other people not acknowledging the points he's trying to make, or what looks like intentionally trying to argue with Wake for nothing but arguments sake. He doesn't seem to be able to let things go, but to me that's personality/play style, and doesn't necessarily make him scummy.

I'm sorry if I missed anyone, I'll double check tomorrow and add them if need be.
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Post Post #2023 (ISO) » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:52 am

Post by Toomai »

Votecount D3-4
No votes have been made since the previous votecount.
Sharpest-knife-on-tree
L-7
1
TheAdrienC
TheAdrienC
L-6
2
TheWayItEnds, Alina
Wake88
L-7
1
Aegor
Burning_TowN
L-8
0
shaddowez
L-8
0
Mirhawk
L-8
0
Not_Mafia
L-8
0
Aegor
L-7
1
BP
TheWayItEnds
L-7
1
Not_Mafia
Boonskiies
L-6
2
Burning_TowN, BroodKingEXE
BroodKingEXE
L-7
1
shaddowez
Juls
L-8
0
Aeronaut
L-7
1
Mirhawk
BP
L-8
0
Alina
L-7
1
Boonskiies
Not voting:
Sharpest-knife-on-tree, Wake88, Juls, Aeronaut
With
15
alive it takes
8
to lynch.
ActivityBP is due for a prod in ~5 hours.
Sharpest-knife-on-tree is due for a prod in ~21 hours.
Juls is due for a prod in ~21.5 hours.
Current deadline14/08/2014 16:58 (EDT)
(expired on 2014-08-14 16:58:24)
This should be required reading for...everyone for anything, really.
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Post Post #2024 (ISO) » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:52 am

Post by Sharpest-knife-on-tree »

vote areonaut

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