The Wire Season 1 Mafia: Baltimore Police and Omar Victory!

[ReallySexyDudes]

Yeah Yeah, Venmar here, I caught up. I shared all of my thoughts with Majiffy,

Not putting them here, it's basically just me ranting about how Muffin and SKOT are scum, Mastin being sketchy, and certain other players like Xis being town.

Majiffy can thumbwar with me over this vote but this is where its going babes

Vote: Muffin

[zMuffinMan]

still not scum

[Titus]

Can someone explain the cases on the major wagons? Otherwise I just plan to toggle them for VCA purposes in late game.

[zMuffinMan]

cases

in a mafia game?

are you new?

[zMuffinMan]

there's a wagon on me because i am just too beautiful for this world and people are jealous or something

there's a wagon on vezok because apparently whenever someone mentions the word "traitor" they have to be scum because that makes sense

there's a wagon on xisiq because he is scum

[zMuffinMan]

the game state as it is right now is actually disgusting

the only town reads i have on vezok are AD and pants. even if i didn't think vezok was town, i wouldn't touch that wagon with a 20-foot pole

i actually think the wagon on me is mostly town but it's still a piece of shit and scum are fine just sitting back, eating popcorn and watching town do nothing in this game

the case on vezok boils down to "justin said traitor. he must be scum" <- the entirety of the case is built around this being a slip, which is dumb because (a) it most likely isn't a slip, and (b) this is incredibly easy to push and then go "whoops, fuck, wow, he shouldn't have said such scummy things!" or something like that after a town flip

i'm actually not sure what the suspicion on my slot is based on. i know mastin made a case at some point and has been confbiasing the slot since (even if she says she gave me a fresh slate, i don't really believe this to be the case unless she's suddenly lost all ability to actually read me), and i know bbMolla has this boner for me because of what he thinks was some mod slip, but i find it kinda funny that virtually the entire game is either calling me scum or softly supporting my wagon and nobody is thinking twice about it (outside of i guess titus, and she's a huge question mark for me atm)

and the saddest part about this game is that everybody seems content coasting by on what they're doing (i.e. nothing) and it seems nobody is actually interested in going after scum

like, every time i ask why xisiq is town i'm met with some generic response. look at his ISO. actually

read

his posts. the questions he's asking are really awful, what little content he's providing isn't giving any insight on the game (i still don't know who he thinks is town or scum apart from the mastin thing he's pushing). what the fuck is town about that?

[ReallySexyDudes]

You give really generic responses when it comes to your own town and scum reads as well soooo....??

[zMuffinMan]

yeah no

[ReallySexyDudes]

Majiffy can thumbwar with me over this vote but this is where its going babes

Vote: Muffin

One Two Three Four I Declare A Thumb War!

VOTE: SKOT

We're both pretty confident in this slot flipping scum. Also Mastinslot.

[Dr Pants]

the case on vezok boils down to "justin said traitor. he must be scum" <- the entirety of the case is built around this being a slip, which is dumb because (a) it most likely isn't a slip, and (b) this is incredibly easy to push and then go "whoops, fuck, wow, he shouldn't have said such scummy things!" or something like that after a town flip

Yes, if Vezok is town its an incredibly attractive wagon for scum. But that's because Vezok's slot looks scummy. So, what we should do is lynch Vezok and force people who are on the wagon to actually commit to it. I want Vezok lynched, and I have absolutely no problem taking heat for it if he turns up town.

[Slandaar]

the case on vezok boils down to "justin said traitor. he must be scum" <- the entirety of the case is built around this being a slip, which is dumb because (a) it most likely isn't a slip, and (b) this is incredibly easy to push and then go "whoops, fuck, wow, he shouldn't have said such scummy things!" or something like that after a town flip

No, the case is much better than that.

He was thinking about Traitors before any claims. Who is most likely to do this? scum, clearly.

Let me break this post down for you Muffin.

Because yeah, Johnny was green and trying to get brown, so he makes sense as a tree stump, but he was sure never part of the Barksdale crew.

He was not barksdale crew but he was pro-barksdale obviously he liked what they offered.

So far role flavor appears to have a clever relation to some aspect of the characters but not a one on one relation to alignment

Untrue, clearly if you have Avon in the game he is barksdales and guess what? he flipped town.
Same with Johnny, if you have him in the game hes barksdale he cannot be police. Common sense.

outside of the police is bad and the street is good.

See he gets it.

(Pro) Police and (Pro) Street.

Therefore DGB's lynching, most especially if she flipped town, would be no more alignment indicative for her neighbors than their confirmed flavor roles already are.

This is true but only due to fake claims not how he has come to the conclusion. Still if you come to this part shouldn't you ask yourself why does DGB think otherwise? Justin fails to show scumhunting and shows a blind defence of DGB.

As for a traitor, if there is one, there are multiple places to look, even assuming it would correspond with flavor. Might find an Orlando, for just one example.

Back to talking about traitors in the middle of talking about DGB for some reason. Multiple places to look? that is nice.

Why is Justin telling us there are multiple possibilities for traitors? who actually cares? no-one. Who is accusing DGB of being a traitor? no-one; why is he defending her from being a traitor then? Because he is scum.

Given the way this has played out, with the inclusion of DGB in a neighborhood where her flavor role would be explicitly known by two other players, this strikes me as a bad lynch. Not saying we shouldn't keep the same eye on DGB we do on anyone else, but I find it a little improbable that Toasty would just feed us scum to lynch in the way this would indicate.

Bad argument. Kind of like the argument Muffin you are making that 'It is unlikely scum would be so obvious to mention traitors'

Yesterday I could have used logic like this but I didn't because it's terrible. I love using logic like this as scum though.

Now Justin made 3 posts
Post 1: Talks about traitors.
Post 2: Bad Flavor Argument.
Post 3: Realised Post 2 was bad flavor argument thus realised DGB was the traitor hence Post 3 is a huge defence of DGB.

No Problem.

[Slandaar]

@zmuffin: let's get a scum wagon going because scum got their fun thinking they have two town wagons they could force aislynch on.

Lets lynch scum!

20 pages of nothing. Half of the players replaced and the others did nothing.
You speedlynched on day 1 and lynched by mod mistake on day 2. Wtf can you analyze?

I have no reads.

Going to be hard to get a scum wagon going then isn't it?

I read his ISO and there ia nothing that suggest a town process.
I'm down with this.

vote xisiq

Is this a scum wagon or isn't it?

What is Vezok doing?

He is scum.

[vezokpiraka]

I think I should claim so we can dissolve this dumb wagon on move on.

[vezokpiraka]

I am Roland Brice.
I'm the fucking doctor.
I docced mastin last night cause by my glance at the game that seemed to be the best use.

I have no idea who justin protected night 1 cause the mod didn't tell me.

[Slandaar]

Maybe you should ask considering there was a missing kill. Seems kind of important 'Doctor'.

[mastin2]

Also mastin still being alive makes me feel weird.

Well, not really. Scum kill mighta failed N1, and if zMuffinman's town, then my reads haven't been stellar, soyeah, they don't exactly have reason to kill me when they think me not a threat.

mastin, do you have any opinion about Vezok/justin given justin's multiple mentions of traitor?

Said it before, saying it again.

Depends on the type of traitor.

If scum didn't know a traitor was in the game (and often, they don't), then...it is entirely null.

@mastin: I have a petfect track record of reading muffin. Especially early. I don't understand how you don't see town muffin.

So do I. That being said, I'm beginning to see signs. (Did I mention that I might have made my conclusion prematurely?)

Vote: Xisiquomelir

.

Not particularly fond of either of the zMuff/Vezok wagons, honestly.

[mastin2]

Which wagon sucks more? Vezok or Muffin?
TRICK QUESTION, THEY'RE BOTH LOADED WITH SCUM.

Probably.

Downplaying, check. Evasion, check. Refusal to respond to the salient point, check.

Better than the alternative.

I can disassemble every single point. Dissect, even. Cases on why I am scum. Especially ones as egregious as yours. It's pathetically easy, in fact, for me to do it. Know why I don't? Because it's a waste of time and effort when I'm actually town. Simply put, I'm right, people who ACTUALLY know me know I'm right and will back me up, so there's literally no need for me to spend time saying anything other than "yeahno".

A clear-cut "lynch me if you can".

Yep!

[mastin2]

Dr. Pants<--Town.
SexyDudes<--Town.
BBmolla<--Town.
ActionDan<--I've had him as town, but right now he needs another look.
TheGottemer<--Town.
Justin Playfair/vezokpiraka<--Town.
BlueBloodedToffee/Titus<--Another name I've had as town, but need another look to be sure. Anti kill is something Titus would do, for instance.
Slandaar<--Town.
Messiah Complex<--I've had them as town, but there is that seed of doubt. I'll need to make sure they are.
BooKitty/zMuffinMan<--Pending final conclusion, but I THINK town off of what I'm seeing now.
Xisiqomelir<--Probably-scum.
Sharpest-knife-on-tree<--Near-certainly scum.
Muki/Anatole Kuragin<--DEAD null.
Jackal711<--Pretty dang strongly null.

Roughly updated. Horrible formatting, I know, gimme a sec.

[Xisiqomelir]

@Moderator

: New VC please

@mastin2

:

Vote: Xisiquomelir

.

Not particularly fond of either of the zMuff/Vezok wagons, honestly.

Too little and too late. I'm not giving you a pass this game.

Please respond to this post from D2

:

Are you going to PL the MS wiki?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Play Advice

If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum.

No, but I'll PL anyone using the wiki, when the wiki is VERY largely static, stale, and unmoving, making it very rapidly obsolete to current site meta. Don't believe me? Look at the revision history. The last edit might be in 2014, but look at the contents OF that edit--it's fixing formatting and grammatical errors, not the content of the article itself. Before that? The article was last edited in 2011, three years ago.

Here is Monopoly Mafia from just before I went on hiatus. The neighbourhood was scummy as all get-out.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=2675

Are you going to tell me there is suddenly an abundance of three-man "mason"-hoods? You know I'm going to demand evidence for this assertion, yes? Please provide it.

[mastin2]

vezokpiraka
Dr. Pants
Slandaar
SexyDudes
TheGottemer
BBMolla

zMuffinman
ActionDan
MessiahComplex

Titus
Jackal
Muki/Anatole

Xisiquomelir
SKOT

Something like this.

[mastin2]

Please respond to this post from D2:

Are you going to PL the MS wiki?
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Play Advice

If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum.

No, but I'll PL anyone using the wiki, when the wiki is VERY largely static, stale, and unmoving, making it very rapidly obsolete to current site meta. Don't believe me? Look at the revision history. The last edit might be in 2014, but look at the contents OF that edit--it's fixing formatting and grammatical errors, not the content of the article itself. Before that? The article was last edited in 2011, three years ago.

Here is Monopoly Mafia from just before I went on hiatus. The neighbourhood was scummy as all get-out.http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=2675
Are you going to tell me there is suddenly an abundance of three-man "mason"-hoods? You know I'm going to demand evidence for this assertion, yes? Please provide it.

Irrelevant, given that I was wrong and DGB flipped traitor.

But yes, I've seen and been in plenty of all-town neighborhoods. Among them Xeno and AP's micro.

[Xisiqomelir]

I have to take another long train ride, so I would like to provide my stances on two topics of discussion:

-I didn't think bookitty was scum. I am slightly perturbed that muffin's push on me doesn't involve interacting with me, but I'm not in a rush to fling rope in that direction
-No one should cc vezok's claim, and the claim itself is peculiarly early. I guess this is lynchable but I would far prefer mastin

[zMuffinMan]

what is there to interact with?

you haven't given any fucking reads

[Xisiqomelir]

Irrelevant, given that I was wrong and DGB flipped traitor.

Contrariwise, I think it's highly pertinent and you were trying hard to derail a lynch on a scumbuddy. The wiki on traitors states:

Variations

These are a few of the ways that Traitor has been implemented.

The Traitor may or may not know who is in the Mafia to begin with.

If not, Traitor is basically intended to act like a "bad Townie" - whereas "good Townies" try to find scum, "bad Townies" hinder the Town from finding the scum without necessarily knowing who they are. However, it is considerably more common for the Traitor to know who the scum are.
On occasion the Traitor is only told who one of the scum is.

The Traitor may give negative results to Cops (that is, they show up like Townies would). This hearkens back to the earliest interpretation of the Traitor, called the Mafia Spy.
The Mafia Spy shows up as Town to Cops, but the Mafia can "call them back" at any time to make them full members of the Mafia at any time. (Obviously, the Mafia would know that the Mafia Spy exists.)

Some moderators allow for Mafia teams to kill their Traitors with the factional kill. Other times, the Traitor is immune to kills from their Mafia (in which case if the Mafia tries to kill them there is no kill that Night). Still other times, if the Mafia attempts to kill their Traitor the Traitor is instead recruited into the Mafia, allowing it to talk to the rest of the faction and perform the factional kill. All of these have been seen regularly.

If the Mafia can potentially kill their Traitor, they are sometimes told that a Traitor exists in the game. This forces the scum to hunt for their own Traitor in hopes of learning who NOT to kill at Night.

Some Traitors, particularly those that cannot be recruited into the main faction, are compensated by being granted extra powers. For instance, the Mafia Traitor may also be the team's Roleblocker.

Some Traitors lose if the main Mafia group is wiped out, even if they are still alive.

So either scumteam didn't know who DGB was or DGB didn't know who she was with. I think the latter is more likely given her posting, and I think that explains verbiage like the below:

SPEAKING OBJECTIVELY. This is as painfully obvious as it can be. How the heck can you be this dense, Slandaar? It's simple.

DGB sees a neighborhood. She believes absolutely that her two partners are town. She knows that paranoia on the neighborhood will exist. She also knows that the paranoia will be focused on her. She believes fully, 100%, that as far as the rest of the game is concerned, if there's any scum in the neighborhood, it's her. Of course she personally knows herself to be town, but nobody else does. But she also believes 100% that after she flips town, people will (or at least, SHOULD) believe that the other two neighbors are town. I don't see how this can't be clear to you. This has been laid out by her and by me explicitly multiple times. She (subjectively) thinks that the neighborhood should be (objectively) all-town, but thanks to paranoia, will (objectively) be suspected, but the focus will be on her. And she knows (objectively) that if anyone in the neighborhood is scum, it'd be her. So in spite of subjectively knowing herself town, she advocates her death, because she (subjectively) believes that the other neighbors will be objectively town when she dies.

Is this the opinion other players hold, no. But she thinks it should be. It makes perfect sense if you actually bother to follow the train of thought that goes into it. You can disagree with her conclusion (be it that the neighborhood is all town, she should die, or both), sure. But just because you disagree with her conclusion does not mean you shouldn't be able to figure out how she reached it. I've *been there*. I know exactly how she feels. There's a reason I pioneered the Mastin Gambit. Is it ideal play, I happen to disagree and think it is not. Is it play that can be coming from town,

YES

. Just because she isn't playing the way you think is ideal doesn't mean she's scum; it just means your ideals differ from hers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But yes, I've seen and been in plenty of all-town neighborhoods. Among them Xeno and AP's micro.

Can you please enumerate "plenty" exactly? If it turns out that "two" is rather a more a plurality than a miniscule subset of "plenty" that is worth disclosing.

[Xisiqomelir]

what is there to interact with?

you haven't given any fucking reads

I realise my ISO is monumental, but perhaps you could undertake the herculean effort of going through it to Ctrl+F the string "Vote:"?

I will even help you out here and give you a reference: Read the page you posted on.

Question for you: How many of these slots are town?

BooKitty

zMuffinMan--BBmolla, Jackal711, The Gottemer, mastin2, Titus (L-3)