NY 174: Oldy Mafia 2 (Game Over)

[Juls]

MBL - What you say makes a lot of sense. I feel decent that Boo is town (even though there are a few things that I have seen that makes me squint my eyes). Like you say, poro's play has been uninspired so I don't know if that's just bored town or lurky scum. GC I have a bit more problems with.

We likely have 3 more scum. If we eliminate those, you think it is who 3 of {Spyrex, Yos, ABR, mathcam}?

[Juls]

I have a lot of paperwork to fill out for my daughter's first day of school. I'm just going to give you my raw notes on GC. Please feel free to ask any questions and I will explain better if something isn't clear. I apologize for not having links but most of them are STD/GC so maybe ISO them two together to get the point.

Green Crayons

Possibly mafia with: Bookitty, Yos
Not Mafia with: chamber (78-82), KK

STD 113 – Says one of {pj, seol, poro, gc} are scum and can “throw LML there too”. Interesting interaction.

STD 151 – benign response to GC

GC 179 – Poses comments to Tigris, LML, PJ, CTD, STD. I always feel like scum will intermingle interactions with their buddies in large posts addressing several things. In this post he addresses 2 known scum. The post in general isn’t very deep. He says he just re-read the thread with his thinking cap but offers only thorough analysis of VitR and some town/scum reads.

If we find out GC is scum this is a post I would like to go back and look at closer

STD 183 – benign question to GC

STD 188 – this post looks like he is white knighting for Vit against GC. This could be a very subtle interaction with GC for sake of interaction.

GC 291 – chides LML for not answering his question

LML 302 – banter with ABR, responds to Yos’s question about tigris, responds to GC, continues bus of STD

GC 303 – another benign question directed at LML

GC 307 – this post at least shows analysis of LML but I don’t know if it comes from a place of I-already-know or not.

Shanba 370 –“Green Crayons vs LML is supremely uninteresting. I have learnt nothing about either's alignment by reading the two of them retreading the same points over and over with added vigour each time, but perhaps that's just because my eyes kept glazing over.” She saw it, but she didn’t know she saw it!

LML 426 – Asks GC to comment on the last few pages.

GC 477 – this post feels so over-the-top defensive compared to what was asked/said.

GC 501 – GC seems to be tunneling hard on LML. Aside from rebuffing Zorblag, I haven’t seen any other scum hunting here.

GC 609 - I can see this post coming from a Bookitty buddy.

GC 630 – going at mathcam for still preferring a Bookitty lynch AND still supporting LML over her. I think this is probably town.

LML 653 – Could be a little hint to Yos (and maybe even GC) to stop bussing. Another reason to think MafiaSSK/mathcam is not scum. LML is really pushing the ‘slip’ from MafiaSSK about daytalk.

GC 788 - not scum with KK

GC 909 - hate the posturing of the STD read

GC 1069 – this read is heavily conf biased but I really hate the case GC is making on Glork here. Why does GC feel that Glork would stick his neck out so far for a scumbuddy? Also, where’s the vote?

GC 1070 – could be scum with Yos for blatant town read.

GC 1124 – likely not scum with Vit. (weak)

GC 1156 – I hate this awful awful push on Glork. And I am really turned off by the condescending nature of this post in particular.

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, but just imagine how bad I get when I

try

to be an asshole.

[MrBuddyLee]

We likely have 3 more scum. If we eliminate those, you think it is who 3 of {Spyrex, Yos, ABR, mathcam}?

I think VitR and chamber can be added to that list unless you have a good reason not to.

Again, that's all based on a set of rough hypotheses that make some sense but also rely upon a pretty finicky read of STD's mindset. But LML and STD gave us very little to work with on Poro, so this was one of the few ways I could think of to evaluate their stance towards him.

Eliminating Boo, Poro, GC, Tigris(CDB), MBL, Juls, undo, Sotty leaves {Spy, Yos, ABR, cam, VitR, chamber}.

[Juls]

I forgot VitR. I would probably exclude chamber or at least save him to last cause I really don't see him/you as scum.

[MrBuddyLee]

An alternative, but one that doesn't really look right, is that this:

I started that list at petroleumjelly because it was his reasoning that seemed to get people on board, less so Tigris's.

was STD's suicidal intention: to attack people on the wagon of a scumpartner, SSK, to make them all look better and himself worse when SSK flips scum. SSK looked to be a decent chance for D1 lynch at that point and this attack would make LML and any other scumpartners on that wagon look better when SSK eventually gets lynched as scum. Would require that multiple scum had jumped on a scumpartner's wagon and LML threw in an FOS because it was too early to throw 2-3 scum on a single scumpartner's wagon.

The third alternative is that STD attacked a wagon on town-SSK with three or more scum on it in an attempt to distance, as a response to LML's attack on STD. Weird escalation of busing.

Makes more sense that STD and LML were the only two scum on that SSK wagon, imo, but I'd say there's an outside chance at a third scum on there.

[MrBuddyLee]

I forgot VitR. I would probably exclude chamber or at least save him to last cause I really don't see him/you as scum.

Yeah, that list doesn't take into account who I feel are cleared to various extents for other reasons.

[Juls]

By the way, one thing I noted and I haven't seen yet. Did anyone ever question/speculate why Shanba was the night 1 kill? I didn't necessarily see a crumb and I didn't think she was a particularly vocal player. It's probably all wifom anyway but I'm just curious if anyone even looked at it.

[MrBuddyLee]

Poro's vote on LML had a few teeth to it, but take that with a grain of salt because it came right after STD's revote of LML:

LoudmouthLee (5) -- Green Crayons, Yosarian2, VitaminR, petroleumjelly, Save the Dragons
Bookitty (7) -- Sotty7, Shanba, Cogito Ergo Sum, chamber, Untrod Tripod, mathcam, undo

Did STDscum and Poroscum take it from 7-4 to 7-6 Boo/LML? That would be some brutal busing. Choo fucking choo.

LML responded to Poro's vote with snark, and it's tough to tell whether this is scum pissed at scum or scum trying to get town off their backs:

So I think if people have been reading my PBPA my scum suspects are pretty obvious. SSK and mathcam seem to be getting a free pass for lurking at the right time. I am not okay with that. Im also not okay with some of mathcams thoughts later on. Undo has been particularly bad but I look forward into getting myself stuck into that one tomorrow. At this point, because he just beat undo in the scumminess title race, and its supremely obvious that we have stalled over the last 10 pages. Certainly it has felt more strained the last 10 pages. Things about LML's play dont really add up. The excel spreadsheet, the VI wagons, the Encryptor...

vote LML

Humor me... because I like to laugh.

How is my VCA, My VI wagon and the encryptor talk scummy, especially with the fact that I didn't bring up the encryptor to begin with.

Since when is scumhunting scummy?

Poro's response:

Let me answer a question with a question, (for now, I am leaving work) can you tell me in each of those situations where you legitimately scumhunted?

Because all of these look like excuses for scumhunting. The VCA removes context from the votes, the VI wagon wasn't ever going to end in a lynch, it was a clear content push and the encryptor talk is I think you mildly defending SSK. Im not even really sure where to start with that one.

Pretty much buries LML with reasons (though restated) why his actions have been scummy.


Another thing to note: in contrast to Yos's approach towards revisionist history, Poro has yet to bring up his involvement in LML's lynch in his own defense.

[SpyreX]

155 had three point 5 posts that truly stand out and need to be reaffirmed:

What are you talking about, you're the most active player right now. I'm talking about everyone else.

The MBLs and the VitaminRs of the game. Just shut up, stop tunnelling, and join a main bandwagon.

Unvote, vote CDB

ABR is town. From the rafters I shall screech it.

Even if that weren't true, this:

ABR: I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish, but I'm starting to question your sanity. Why wouldn't a person so ravenously craving a lynch not keep their vote on porochaz, especially one who had quite willingly declared porochaz as scum repeatedly in the last couple of days? Or, barring that, why not at least justify your spasmodic vote switches in the hopes of getting other people to join you? Perhaps there was another instance in which I or CDB failed to defend your honor, thereby earning your vote?

I haven't put ABR in my scummy pile in a long time, but at this point, it's starting to feel less like "town ABR desperate to lynch" and more like "ABR is realizing he's looking pro-town via his desperation and is intentionally trying to foster that appearance."

Juls: I'm quite happy with the rate at which you're catching up. The only thing I would note is that their is a detriment in letting the game stagnate, so it is a matter of weighing pros and cons as to how worth it is to delay for you to catch up. That said, I think almost everyone else remaining is in it for the long haul. I'm a little curious about your chamber read (being the last in a long series of players to find him very pro-town, none of which have offered justifications for this stance), but it's not worth doing a write-up for. Maybe tomorrow.

Is amazingly bad on surface and in depth the last paragraph can be rephrased to "Lets not let this poro lynch die *backwards poke at chamber*" makes my meh middle-ground on poro which mirrors a lot of the little buzzed kissing the girl you dont really want to feeling most everyone has towards that wagon REALLY tingly in all those bad ways.

And this:

I counted votes early in the day, and I do not think there were enough votes to lynch STD without my vote. Maybe it would have happened at deadline anyway, or maybe the replcament of PJ would have changed things, I don't know. But I certainly do think I played a major role in the lynch of STD.

Its so bizarre I can't even decide if its scummy or just... wrong.

[Juls]

I think your comments on poro are accurate. Does anyone REALLY feel like poro is the BEST lynch today or is he just good enough?

[MrBuddyLee]

buzzed kissing the girl you dont really want to feeling most everyone has towards that wagon REALLY tingly in all those bad ways.

I was just about to ask you for another poem, but this will sate me for now, ta.

[chamber]

I think he's the best lynch by a not close margin.

[MrBuddyLee]

By the way, one thing I noted and I haven't seen yet. Did anyone ever question/speculate why Shanba was the night 1 kill? I didn't necessarily see a crumb and I didn't think she was a particularly vocal player. It's probably all wifom anyway but I'm just curious if anyone even looked at it.

I have a conspiracist fantasy in which LML and Boo are both scum and he refused to vote her because she's a rolecop or some shit. Town galore piled on Boo, and scum appear to have been very reluctant to, preferring LML's delicious flesh. This would also explain why Boo was so verbose D1 and has faded into obscurity since.

Fantasy.

ps. Not sure if that explains how Shabs got got, but maybe scumcop's power could be used during the day or before kill orders? Is that ever a thing? Can a scumcop exist in a normal?

[chamber]

Interesting line yos is taking. Im not even sure why he is pursuing it. ABR, why do you think he is town?

mathcams recent post is most interesting, if you want my help in joining a wagon, ABR, then I would start there.

This is like a prototypical scum post. I don't see why no one else seems to take issue with it.

[Juls]

I will vote him if he gets to L-1. I'm not going to try to stop it by any means. I'd just prefer Yos or mathcam.

[MrBuddyLee]

Interesting line yos is taking. Im not even sure why he is pursuing it. ABR, why do you think he is town?

mathcams recent post is most interesting, if you want my help in joining a wagon, ABR, then I would start there.

This is like a prototypical scum post. I don't see why no one else seems to take issue with it.

It is, in its structure and tone. But wait.. what do you think of "cam's recent post", which Spy also just took a swipe at?

I suppose this could be the world's most low-effort distancing..

[chamber]

I'm too tired to form competent new thoughts atm, I haven't liked mathcam not seeing me as town and seemingly trying to add more possible mislynches to the pool, but I'm incredibly biased in that regard so have mostly ignored it.

[mathcam]

By the way, one thing I noted and I haven't seen yet. Did anyone ever question/speculate why Shanba was the night 1 kill? I didn't necessarily see a crumb and I didn't think she was a particularly vocal player. It's probably all wifom anyway but I'm just curious if anyone even looked at it.

Only to see if there was a crumb. I suspect it was mostly random, though staying away from anyone who might have been a likely doc protect.

Does anyone REALLY feel like poro is the BEST lynch today or is he just good enough?

Yes. I was slightly anti-poro before today, but PoE ratchets him up significantly, and I feel like today he's been acting like caught scum who can't be bothered to try to extricate himself from his predicament. MBL's comment at the end of the last page (if he were town, he'd recognize his thoughts are valuable even after death) is 100% dead on.

I haven't liked mathcam not seeing me as town and seemingly trying to add more possible mislynches to the pool,

I think I've made it clear that I haven't particularly seen you as scum either, and certainly haven't made any moves to add you to a lynching pool. I just don't see what other people are seeing when they're so definitively declaring you town. Do you? To me, you've been active but unassuming, engaging and contributing to discussions but rarely sticking your neck out on a stance. Do you think people see you as incapable of pulling that off as scum?

[chamber]

I'm not the person to get into an argument over that. Argue with juls or something. I'm the least biased and judging how I'm perceived. I don't think I'm nearly good enough to have played this game as scum, but you shouldn't give a shit what I say about that.

[mathcam]

Well, to be fair, I

was

trying to argue with Juls about it, and you said you didn't like it. But whatevs, this is a distraction from lynching poro, so never mind.

[Porochaz]

@Poro

, can you please explain your townread of VitR, if that's how you still feel about him?

I don't really have a townread on him, never had. His defence of CES was always weird and feels bad still now that he is gone, as I say, I've kinda let him slip by the wayside while I focused on DGB

[Porochaz]

Also, I just read Poro's ISO and I'm pretty null on him based on his words. But I really couldn't come up with a compelling argument based on his posts that he's town. He doesn't seem to be trying to have it both ways on anything.. he's very straightforward about how he thinks, even if a lot of his "reasoning" can get nonspecific at times. That's about as positive as I can get.. he really has been super lazy since DGB flipped. I'd have expected more effort from town that gave a shit.

meh meh meh

@Poro

, can you please explain your townread of VitR, if that's how you still feel about him?

Also, why do your opinions of GC range between "obvtown" and "what actual scum hunting is he doing"?

Has your read of Boo changed since two weeks ago when you made her "null"?

I also can't find your opinion of chamber since you called his case on you "lazy" 2-3 weeks ago.

One reason for us to find you scummy is that:

My reads have been wrong and my lynch is almost certainly on the cards, despite the case being PoE sand my lurking, it means no defence really, and I am struggling to continue a reread when anything I say is going to be pointless

If you were town, you'd know that your words could potentially be taken seriously after you're lynched, meaning any work you did right now WOULDN'T be pointless.

Sorry I stopped reading after the first question. The GC scumhunting quote was in relation to me, I was splarfing out stuff. I am still leaning town on him, but in that post I was listing things that were maybe worth looking into rather than things I found overly scummy.

In regards to Bookie, I don't really have an opinion of her, again, never had. Im not sure the relevance of the super town points she got early on in regards to LML, and I fail to see much to continue calling her town since. That said I don't really have anything to call her scum either. But this is my major frustration with this game. People are happy to just pass people off as town for historic information.

Chambers case on me, was lurking and the fact I wanted to play skype mafia on a deadline day rather than watch the thread, both are points that I wouldn't deny, (beyond the fact that I was in the thread before deadline hit, but the lynch had happened) I find his interactions in this game verge on frequent but minimal, but that could be style. I found his opinion on DGB quite interesting a lot of the time, unable to read her effectively, but at times willing to follow her blindly and at other times voting her.

Im quite happy to catch up, as I say there is quite a few things that Im interested in following up on. Yos's 180 and his insistence that he had more of a role on the STD wagon than he did. Again, his towniness for me stemmed from the closeness of his views to mine. However as STD showed I can't really be using that as an excuse.

[Yosarian2]

You are guilty of self delusion on a scale that's incomprehensible to me if you are town and truly believe that you were a factor in getting him lynched beyond placing a single vote at a time when you were in a position where you really couldn't do anything else.

Chamber, is there a reason that you've spent so much time this game insulting me and trying to block me from doing anything useful at all? It's really starting to get on my nerves at this point.

[chamber]

You are guilty of self delusion on a scale that's incomprehensible to me if you are town and truly believe that you were a factor in getting him lynched beyond placing a single vote at a time when you were in a position where you really couldn't do anything else.

Chamber, is there a reason that you've spent so much time this game insulting me and trying to block me from doing anything useful at all? It's really starting to get on my nerves at this point.

I wont speak for other moments, because I haven't been going out of my way to be so; I'm just an abrasive person. But in this moment I wasn't intending to insult you at all. I was stating a scum read first and foremost, and I was, if you are town, trying to make you take a moment to self reflect on that incident and think about whether you really had the impact you seem to perceive.