Mini 448: Judgement Day Mafia-Game Over!

[now a ranger]

I think Jdodge could have removed his vote and waited in case someone hammered. He didn't, even though he said he wanted everyone to wait. It would have been safer if he wasn't sure.


However, I think N9V is really scummy out there, IMHO. I'll go look back at his posts, although he never posts real content. Only one of his posts wasn't a 1 or 2 liner in this game so far.


I'm torn between JDodge and N9V, and have to look back, but not at the moment. Time to go out to another restaurant to meet up with some relatives.

[Battle Mage]

Frankly i dont consider either 'Douche Bag' or 'Moron' to be great insults, worthy of further action. On the other hand, the intent behind these comments is clear, and as such, both offenders will recieve a formal warning. Grow up, as you will be modkilled if you do it again.
BM

[JDodge]

I think Jdodge could have removed his vote and waited in case someone hammered. He didn't, even though he said he wanted everyone to wait. It would have been safer if he wasn't sure.

Why, it's simple, NAR. I wanted him to be at -1 for info, not dead. I don't see that as much of a stretch.

However, I think N9V is really scummy out there, IMHO. I'll go look back at his posts, although he never posts real content. Only one of his posts wasn't a 1 or 2 liner in this game so far.

QFT

I am pleased with NAR's responses.

Unvote, vote ~N9V~

Now, onto Spambot's posts.

To sum up my case on JDodge right now:

1) He is being extremely defensive over me voting for him. The way he is reacting is not how I would expect a townie to react.

Now you must ask yourself this: Is it truly any different from how I normally act?

2) He's very conscious of OMGUSing me. According to him, I am definite scum and so is Ranger. I don't buy that he's this confident about knowing who two scum are. The reason he isn't moving his vote to me is really because he doesn't want to be accused of an OMGUS.

I'm not moving my vote to you because I don't think that you could be scum unless NAR is, and I'm leaning towards "NAR isn't".

3) He's using adhom and sarcasm instead of responding to my case against him. He is being extremely dismissive.

Sarcasm is a part of how I play. Deal with it.

4) I think his logic against Ranger is awful, but this one is more of an opinion that necessarily blatantly scummy. It's not scummy to disagree with me, but I think his motives for attacking Ranger are questionable.

Logic is not always the way to go. Mafia is just as much about actions as it is

reactions

, and I seem to be very good at getting reactions. That's why Lynch All Liars is a bad policy; everyone has a reason to lie.

5) He has been trying to lead the town and tell people who to vote for the entire game, rather than letting people make up their own mind. He also hasn't presented any strong cases on these people.

People are free to disagree; I just like to make my opinion well-known.

[now a ranger]

If I am town, I don't see how Spambot will be considered town for sure. After all, it's not uncommon for a scum to protect a townie to look pro-town, which is possibly what Spambot could be doing, for all I know..


It looks like it is time for a re-read after I wake up tomorrow morning.

[xyzzy]

If I am town, I don't see how Spambot will be considered town for sure. After all, it's not uncommon for a scum to protect a townie to look pro-town, which is possibly what Spambot could be doing, for all I know..


It looks like it is time for a re-read after I wake up tomorrow morning.

Agreed.

Too much of anything is suspicious, even defending townies.

[JDodge]

If I am town, I don't see how Spambot will be considered town for sure. After all, it's not uncommon for a scum to protect a townie to look pro-town, which is possibly what Spambot could be doing, for all I know..


It looks like it is time for a re-read after I wake up tomorrow morning.

I do too agree, but I think it's far less likely that he would be scum if you aren't.

[Battle Mage]

Vote Count

Jdodge 2 (Spambot, Xyzzy)
NaR 1 (N9V)
Xyzzy 1 (Whome)
N9V 1 (Jdodge)

Not Voting: Kabenon, Arkest, Blue Zebra, NaR, Shadyforce

[now a ranger]

Just making and point, although I’m not voting anyone yet, still undecided.


I don’t like how JDodge keeps being opportunistic and changing votes once a wagon stops, like on me. Right when the wagon on me stopped, you said you were pleased with my responses, and unvoted and went after N9V, who you’ve been going after all game, even though all he’s been is suspicious with his short posts and Albert went after him.
This bothered me.

EBWOP: I forgot to say so, but my main problem with JDodge right now is the way he is attacking Now a Ranger. His argument that he must be Alberts scumbuddy is beyond ridiculous.

How cute! Someone's never heard of bussing!

Spambot is not scum, just a moron.

WhoMe is flighty and opportunistic.

Arkest is sensible.

NAR needs to die today.

If NAR isn't scum, N9V needs to die tomorrow.

If NAR is scum, Spambot needs to die tomorrow.

You say I must be lynched today no matter what, and now you’ve changed your mind.
You also say you want me to be lynched for info, and I don’t see how my alignment has to do with N9V and Spambot’s alignments really and truly.


Also, I don’t think you really wanted Albert to die.

Okay and note these posts.

I was disappointed. Sad

There was no claim or lynch of xyzzy, which is annoying. Considering he got pretty close to a lynch, isn't it common practice claim? But he didn't do so.

Now, people are moving their votes off for no reason. Albert and N9V have said some odd things, but so far none of them have claimed to not win with the town.

Why were you disappointed?

Why is it annoying there was no claim or lynch, when both, without enough info, are bad for the town?

Are we supposed to wait for people to say "I don't win with the town" before we lynch them?

People I'd like to lynch at the moment:

~N9V~
~N9V~
~N9V~
~N9V~
~N9V~

First this, where you seem to only want to lynch N9V, and on the same day, just later in the same day, you vote Albert when it looks like you could put a vote on him to look pro-town early on the wagon.

Someone please put the final vote on ABR. This is ridiculous.

NO.

Someone wait. Everyone wait.

You are all way too eager.

More of a sign that maybe Jdodge didn’t want Albert to die and wanted to hear a full claim, despite all his scumminess.


I don’t know, I just felt like posting this, although this is my opinion.

[xyzzy]

More of a sign that maybe Jdodge didn’t want Albert to die and wanted to hear a full claim, despite all his scumminess.

Are you suggesting that a claim is bad?

Quickly killing people before we get anything is stupid.

[now a ranger]

I meant that I thought it sounded like JDodge was willing to let Albert go despite all his scumminess if he claimed something reasonable that might be a role in the game, and I don't think any power roles would counterclaim on Day 1.

[~N9V~]

Unvote Vote JDodge

You are being unhelpful to the town. Jumping on votes (as NaR said) Make up your mind. And yes, please stop leading the town.

[xyzzy]

No, he was saying that we should wait to get information.

But judging for ABR's reaction, I wonder if we would've gotten anything out of him?

[~N9V~]

Was that directed at me?

[Spambot]

Why, it's simple, NAR. I wanted him to be at -1 for info, not dead. I don't see that as much of a stretch.

This is confusing me. You wanted to get info from him, but you didn't want him to die? Personally, if I'm willing to put somebody at -1, then I'm also going to be willing to lynch him. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have gotten a chance to claim, but this comment kind of reads like you are saying you didn't want him lynched.

QFT

I am pleased with NAR's responses.

Unvote, vote ~N9V~

What about his responses pleased you? As Ranger has pointed out, you do a huge flip-flop from when you were calling for his head a page or two ago. I'm still not seeing why you are voting for N9V, could you explain that more?

Now you must ask yourself this: Is it truly any different from how I normally act?

I have no idea how you normally act. Scum tells in context are better than not, but I don't know how any of you play outside of this game. I guess it'd be helpful if somebody that does know could tell me if they think you are usually so abrasive and eager to lead the town.

I'm not moving my vote to you because I don't think that you could be scum unless NAR is, and I'm leaning towards "NAR isn't".

So, you went from calling both of us scum to thinking we aren't? I mean, fair enough if that's true, but I hope you can see why I find that suspicious. I also don't think I've been defending him as hard as you think, all I've been trying to say is that I'm reading him as town and even if we want to lynch him, he's not the best lynch today.

Sarcasm is a part of how I play. Deal with it.

Again, I don't know if that's true or not, but I'll take your word on this. I think you are missing my point, which is that you are defending yourself with sarcasm rather than actually discussing things, which I find incredibly scummy.

Logic is not always the way to go. Mafia is just as much about actions as it is

reactions

, and I seem to be very good at getting reactions. That's why Lynch All Liars is a bad policy; everyone has a reason to lie.

I agree with that, except that I don't think townies should ever lie. Exaggerate, maybe, but attacking people for weak reasons is something scum will do. You aren't making a strong case against that person, and even if you get the reaction you are looking for, what you are mostly accomplishing is making yourself appear like scum.

People are free to disagree; I just like to make my opinion well-known.

How does bullying people by telling them who they should be voting for leave them open to disagree? Obviously, they still can disagree, but you aren't just stating your opinion. If that were the case, you would be saying "I think we should lynch so-and-so" not "lynch so-and-so." It reads to me like you are trying to use your force of personality to drive mislynches.

[shadyforce]

Hi all.

My apologies for my absence. I said I was going to be busy for a few days, but unfortunately it extended longer than that. Also, I think it things might crop up again over the next few weeks, so rather than hanging on and maybe having to be replaced a few days into the game, it's probably better for all concerned if I ask to be replaced now while it's still day 1.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused.

[Spambot]

Hi all.

My apologies for my absence. I said I was going to be busy for a few days, but unfortunately it extended longer than that. Also, I think it things might crop up again over the next few weeks, so rather than hanging on and maybe having to be replaced a few days into the game, it's probably better for all concerned if I ask to be replaced now while it's still day 1.

I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused.

It's not day 1.

[JDodge]

I don’t like how JDodge keeps being opportunistic and changing votes once a wagon stops, like on me. Right when the wagon on me stopped, you said you were pleased with my responses, and unvoted and went after N9V, who you’ve been going after all game, even though all he’s been is suspicious with his short posts and Albert went after him.
This bothered me.

What? Can you explain that a bit further? It sounds kind of... contradictory.

You say I must be lynched today no matter what, and now you’ve changed your mind.
You also say you want me to be lynched for info, and I don’t see how my alignment has to do with N9V and Spambot’s alignments really and truly.

WILL EVERYBODY GET IT THROUGH THEIR HEADS THAT N9V'S ALIGNMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NAR. ONLY SPAMBOT'S DOES.

First this, where you seem to only want to lynch N9V, and on the same day, just later in the same day, you vote Albert when it looks like you could put a vote on him to look pro-town early on the wagon.

Liek Albert was more suspicious than N9V. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that changing my vote was suspicious.

More of a sign that maybe Jdodge didn’t want Albert to die and wanted to hear a full claim, despite all his scumminess.

Yes. How is that bad?

I meant that I thought it sounded like JDodge was willing to let Albert go despite all his scumminess if he claimed something reasonable that might be a role in the game, and I don't think any power roles would counterclaim on Day 1.

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER.

Unvote Vote JDodge You are being unhelpful to the town. Jumping on votes (as NaR said) Make up your mind. And yes, please stop leading the town.

This is liek totally OMGUS.

You say "make up your mind"; doesn't it seem like you should be saying "He's flighty and is scum"? Because "make up your mind" sounds like you think I'm indecisive as opposed to scummy for it.

This is confusing me. You wanted to get info from him, but you didn't want him to die? Personally, if I'm willing to put somebody at -1, then I'm also going to be willing to lynch him. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have gotten a chance to claim, but this comment kind of reads like you are saying you didn't want him lynched.

As am I, however I kind of like to get some INFORMATION out of it.

What about his responses pleased you? As Ranger has pointed out, you do a huge flip-flop from when you were calling for his head a page or two ago. I'm still not seeing why you are voting for N9V, could you explain that more?

Next post.

I have no idea how you normally act. Scum tells in context are better than not, but I don't know how any of you play outside of this game. I guess it'd be helpful if somebody that does know could tell me if they think you are usually so abrasive and eager to lead the town.

It's my philosophy for both town and scum to scumhunt as much as possible, and that leads to abrasiveness and eagerness. I'm not saying it's a town-tell; I'm saying it's a null-tell.

I agree with that, except that I don't think townies should ever lie. Exaggerate, maybe, but attacking people for weak reasons is something scum will do. You aren't making a strong case against that person, and even if you get the reaction you are looking for, what you are mostly accomplishing is making yourself appear like scum.

You just need to understand in which

context

people have reason to lie. A townie would have reason to lie in a claim situation, where claiming townie is almost a guaranteed lynch. Personally, I feel a bit of bluffing here and there works well.

A pro-town player should not be afraid to die.

How does bullying people by telling them who they should be voting for leave them open to disagree? Obviously, they still can disagree, but you aren't just stating your opinion. If that were the case, you would be saying "I think we should lynch so-and-so" not "lynch so-and-so." It reads to me like you are trying to use your force of personality to drive mislynches.

Are you voting N9V? Think about that and you'll see how ridiculous that statement is.

Next up is analysis of N9V.

[JDodge]

I agree with this, except for the part a -1 gives us more info than a hammer. A -1 can give us absolutly no info at times, when a hammer gives us his allegience, and then we can work from there to determine who attacked him, who defended him, and so on.

Translation: DIE DIE DIE YAAAAAAAAAAAY HAMMER GOOD

As of now, info. Who does't say that xyzzy isn't scum? So then it would give us info and a free mafia kill.

Double negatives are scummy.

But seriously, free mafia kills are bad.

I meant that as a free mafia dead.

How are you so sure? I think N9V and xyzzy are the remaining scum.

Not neccesarily. It doesn't always lead to a claim. I didn't say we should hammer him, I just pointed it out that it can give more info than a -1 can.

Look back to the second quoted post; doesn't that essentially say we should hammer him?

Fonz, let me explain this a little better. JDodge said that if we lynch xyzzy the mafia would get a free kill. I said that there is a chance that he could be scum, so we could get a free mafia killed. But thinking on it,I didn't like JDoge's post. Unvote/Vote: JDodge

This is OMGUS.

How are you so sure he's scum? I don't think xyzzy is scum.

*snip*

First he goes off about me supposidly knowing that xyzzy is scum. Then he makes the exact same statement, except that he's town. There is only one way that you can be sure that someone is town in a day one with no night zero: thats when your scum and you know who is in who's alliance.

Two things. I said "I don't think xyzzy is scum", not "I know xyzzy isn't scum". Secondly, I never said "I think xyzzy is town", either.

Also, for who said I am a newbish player. I am not! I'm IC, or so SV says

I'M AN IC SO YOU SHOULD ALL LISTEN TO ME.

You're still kind of newbish, N9V. You have quite a bit to learn.

ONWARDS TO DAY 2. (I THINK.)

Guys, JDodge isn't the play for today. NaR or xyzzy is.

And for who said that there are three scum left, I'm leaning more towards 2 scum left, and a SK. SK's more dangerous than the mafia right now, so we need to find him/her as soon as possible. Who did the Fonz attack yesterday will be a great start to it.

And then in the next post, after I switched my vote to him...

Guys, JDodge isn't the play for today. NaR or xyzzy is.

And for who said that there are three scum left, I'm leaning more towards 2 scum left, and a SK. SK's more dangerous than the mafia right now, so we need to find him/her as soon as possible. Who did the Fonz attack yesterday will be a great start to it.

OMGUS!

So freakin OMGUS.

So, yeah, N9V needs to die today.

[Spambot]

What? Can you explain that a bit further? It sounds kind of... contradictory.

I'm not seeing a contradiction there. It's entirely possible I'm just missing it, though.

WILL EVERYBODY GET IT THROUGH THEIR HEADS THAT N9V'S ALIGNMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NAR. ONLY SPAMBOT'S DOES.

That was only part of what he said. Why does my alignment depend on his?

Liek Albert was more suspicious than N9V. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that changing my vote was suspicious.

Constantly changing your vote without giving much reason is suspicious, yeah.

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER.

Are you saying that you didn't think Albert was scum? Because I'm not sure how anything short of claiming cop or doc would have been good enough to save him.

This is liek totally OMGUS.

You say "make up your mind"; doesn't it seem like you should be saying "He's flighty and is scum"? Because "make up your mind" sounds like you think I'm indecisive as opposed to scummy for it.

OMGUS is only if the reason he is voting for you is because you voted for him. That might really be his motive, but he did give other reasons for his vote.

I think at best you are misinterpreting him and at best are completely misrepresenting the "make up your mind" comment.

As am I, however I kind of like to get some INFORMATION out of it.

I am satisfied that we lynched scum and he didn't wiggle out of it. Aren't you?

It's my philosophy for both town and scum to scumhunt as much as possible, and that leads to abrasiveness and eagerness. I'm not saying it's a town-tell; I'm saying it's a null-tell.

Saying that you do X as scum and town is an awful argument. Do you expect me to take your word for it? If you're scum, then you are misleading me, if you aren't, there is still no way to prove how you play as scum or town.

You just need to understand in which

context

people have reason to lie. A townie would have reason to lie in a claim situation, where claiming townie is almost a guaranteed lynch. Personally, I feel a bit of bluffing here and there works well.

Clearly, regardless of your alignment we disagree about mafia a lot. I think that lying about your role to avoid being lynched would be the worst townie play ever. That is almost guaranteed to get you lynched at a later point. All you are doing is putting off the inevitable.

A pro-town player should not be afraid to die.

There is a lot difference between should be and are. From what I've seen, a lot of newbs are scared of dying regardless.

Are you voting N9V? Think about that and you'll see how ridiculous that statement is.

You are TRYING to bully and lead the town. I'm not going along with it, but others might. If you do something scummy, nothing I do would change that. It's still scummy.

[now a ranger]

wow. you've managed to say almost nothing, other than the fact that everything's OMGUS, people should listen to you just because you're an IC, and that you want N9V to die today, which you've been saying almost the whole game, and a lot of other useless non-convincing contentless "responses".

Vote: JDodge

[~N9V~]

I agree with this, except for the part a -1 gives us more info than a hammer. A -1 can give us absolutly no info at times, when a hammer gives us his allegience, and then we can work from there to determine who attacked him, who defended him, and so on.

Translation: DIE DIE DIE YAAAAAAAAAAAY HAMMER GOOD

No, translation means Hammer is better if you guys wanted information, which is why we were on him in the first place.

As of now, info. Who does't say that xyzzy isn't scum? So then it would give us info and a free mafia kill.

Double negatives are scummy.

But seriously, free mafia kills are bad.

I explained this in the next post.

I meant that as a free mafia dead.

How are you so sure? I think N9V and xyzzy are the remaining scum.

Again, your jumping around with your votes. First you say it's xyzzy, then it's NaR and Spambot, now it's me and xyzzy. Youyou finallysee why Iwant you dead. You are unhelpful to the town.

Not neccesarily. It doesn't always lead to a claim. I didn't say we should hammer him, I just pointed it out that it can give more info than a -1 can.

Look back to the second quoted post; doesn't that essentially say we should hammer him?

No it doesn't. Stop mixing my words up.

Fonz, let me explain this a little better. JDodge said that if we lynch xyzzy the mafia would get a free kill. I said that there is a chance that he could be scum, so we could get a free mafia killed. But thinking on it,I didn't like JDoge's post. Unvote/Vote: JDodge

This is OMGUS.

What ever you wish to believe.

How are you so sure he's scum? I don't think xyzzy is scum.

*snip*

First he goes off about me supposidly knowing that xyzzy is scum. Then he makes the exact same statement, except that he's town. There is only one way that you can be sure that someone is town in a day one with no night zero: thats when your scum and you know who is in who's alliance.

Two things. I said "I don't think xyzzy is scum", not "I know xyzzy isn't scum". Secondly, I never said "I think xyzzy is town", either.

Uhh yeah you did, and you just did again.

Also, for who said I am a newbish player. I am not! I'm IC, or so SV says

I'M AN IC SO YOU SHOULD ALL LISTEN TO ME.

You're still kind of newbish, N9V. You have quite a bit to learn.

ONWARDS TO DAY 2. (I THINK.)

Fine then, I'm a newb. Let's see you do something like an experienced player should do, and stop acting like a newb.

Guys, JDodge isn't the play for today. NaR or xyzzy is.

And for who said that there are three scum left, I'm leaning more towards 2 scum left, and a SK. SK's more dangerous than the mafia right now, so we need to find him/her as soon as possible. Who did the Fonz attack yesterday will be a great start to it.

And then in the next post, after I switched my vote to him...

Guys, JDodge isn't the play for today. NaR or xyzzy is.

And for who said that there are three scum left, I'm leaning more towards 2 scum left, and a SK. SK's more dangerous than the mafia right now, so we need to find him/her as soon as possible. Who did the Fonz attack yesterday will be a great start to it.

OMGUS!

So freakin OMGUS.

So, yeah, N9V needs to die today.

Again, not OMGUS. Your scum, plain and simple. That's why my votes on you.

[JDodge]

EBWOP:

I'M AN IC SO YOU SHOULD ALL LISTEN TO ME.

You're still kind of newbish, N9V. You have quite a bit to learn.

ONWARDS TO DAY 2. (I THINK.)

Should be

Translation: I'M AN IC SO YOU SHOULD ALL LISTEN TO ME.

You're still kind of newbish, N9V. You have quite a bit to learn.

ONWARDS TO DAY 2. (I THINK.)

[Blue Zebra]

If Albert were to claim, how would we know if he's lying?

[now a ranger]

We wouldn't. Chances are, if he claimed a power role, then people wouldn't lynch him for the time being, because there would be a chance that it's true, as the real power role people probably wouldn't want to counterclaim anyway so early in the game.

[JDodge]

If you look hard enough, you can get even more info out of -1, seeing as it's a pressure-filled situation.