X-Men: Age of Apocalypse (Game Over)

[Toogeloo]

Occam's Razor states that Feu was the last Blue member and

that that team is wiped out.

Snow is probably town (for

Jiffy interactions

)
Venmar is probably town (for early game and

Jiffy interactions

)

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

I don't understand where you are going with this.

[borkjerfkin]

You can't think someone is not the last member of a team due to negative interactions with a person on that team and simultaneously not think that team exists anymore

ergo you are full of it

[SnowStorm]

if a beloved princess is killed does it still activate?

No, duh.

[Toogeloo]

Uh... sure I can.

I am drawing multiple conclusions which leads me to believe Blue is wiped out.

1) I don't believe certain members are associated to Majiffy due to relationship tells from early game.
2) Host confirms that a scum player cannot both perform a normal night action and the killing action unless they are the last scum member

ergo... I think Blue is wiped out.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't believe certain members are associated to Majiffy due to relationship tells from early game.

Which suddenly

should

become null to you if you are trying to posit that there are no more blue scum.

You're basically saying from those Majiffy interactions is "I don't think these guys are blue scum with Majiffy" (because red scum and town would be forming indistinguishable associative tells) and also "I don't think anyone is blue scum with Majiffy because they're all dead now"

Your reads are fabricated.

[Toogeloo]

Venmar and Snow have been town reads to me regardless. I was just posting reasons why they are probably town and not Blue.

Note I said "probably." So take that as a fence sit, or whatever, but I did not formulate that post to suggest determining red from blue. Those 3 players are my top 3 town reads, and I am not wavering from it.

I am very content with being lynched today if that is the course, I have already expressed that someone from my hood needs to be lynched, and I've also stated that I am the one name that keeps getting name dropped as scum in my hood. I have been to too many LyLos which have cause game losses either on my part or being the goat to end the game, and considering I have grown quite bored of this game, despite how easy it should be to break down at this point, I am perfectly willing to accept a lynch today if I need to.

[borkjerfkin]

So take that as a fence sit, or whatever

I'm gonna take it as a scum slip if it's all the same.

[Toogeloo]

k

[ika]

if a beloved princess is killed does it still activate?

No, duh.

i rather hear from mod, there has been other situations where it does activate i would sya but it would be part of ongoing

[Toogeloo]

If the mod answers that as YES, and perhaps Snow was trying to conceal that fact, then congratulations for giving scum an easy twofer night.

[ika]

If the mod answers that as YES, and perhaps Snow was trying to conceal that fact, then congratulations for giving scum an easy twofer night.

dotn give a damn, plus do you thin BP with double faction + oddvig is ballenced?

plus i wish i though of askign this sooner, rreally any scum would ask this privately sooner

[Desperado]

if a beloved princess is killed does it still activate?

That depends on how the role PM was written.

[Toogeloo]

Assuming BP is in the game, it's a helluva lot more balanced to be lynch only instead of kill considering the amount of shots that can (and have) gone around during the evenings.

[borkjerfkin]

Cloud 9 opened the evening with a vote for bork to be the nightkill. I came in shortly after voting for Snowstorm to be the kill

because I was under the impression any vig we had was planning to shoot him. Rogue came in after that and voted Speaker for the Dead to be the night kill. We stayed deadlocked at 1v1v1 for most the night, then PV came in, voted for Snow but said the vig would be stupid to shoot him. Cloud 9 then changed their vote to Snowstorm. Rubik never popped into the hood at all. We had maybe a dozen total posts through out the night phase, including the mods.

Night 1, I tried redirecting bork to Nero. I was getting vig vibes from bork, and

I didn't want him to shoot Snow, so I redirected him to Nero

because I thought Nero was scum. Action didn't go through.

or as I like to say, "How can I basically ensure we don't get the NK objective?"

whereas the town thing to do (while ostensibly performing that [silly] redirect):

Say something to the effect of "hey Snow looks decently town, maybe the vig will agree, let's go for an NK predict tonight instead."
Or say LITERALLY NOTHING since the vote was already on me.
Instead you moved it TO SNOWSTORM while making it less likely that he'd get shot.

Seriously can we get rid of this guy?

[Toogeloo]

When I claimed, I stated that I always voted on the side of caution that my choices were wrong. I was more interested in where the shot got redirected than who was actually doing the shooting.

[Toogeloo]

But hey, I'm pretty sure that line of reasoning worked on the AP lynch too... what'd he flip again?

And as you already know... I could give two shits about the objectives as they served as more of a distraction than anything else. Getting those abilities at end game is far easier to accomplish and give the greater benefit at that point in time.

[Venmar]

Bork is just saying that you can't townread me and Snowstorm for our interactions with Majiffy, when you think Majiffy's team is wiped out. Those two pretty much mean the same thing. You're essentially just saying we're not blue scum, which doesn't exclude us from being red scum.

[Venmar]

Toog, why do you think SnowStorm is town when his tracker claim pretty much contradicts your redirection between Feu and ETL?

Because at this point I am inclined to believe that Feu was the last Blue Scum, and their team was only two people, in which case, there is nothing wrong with Snow's track results since I don't redirect every action, just the kill.

But Feu was a JOAT? It's completely possible he had a Bus Driver or Redirector action that night. That doesn't make sense from your POV, I understand, but it's an equally likely possiblity from everyone else's POV, simply because a 20 player game is way more likely to have a 3v3vTown team, rather than a 2v2vTown game with a bunch of traitors, which in itself is quite a flawed game balance and mechanic wise. Why push the super unlikely idea that the setup is 2v2vTown or 2v3vTown, rather than defend your night action against the contradicting tracker claim from SnowStorm?

[ika]

troubling...

i want a hammer on venmar

[Venmar]

[Sharpest-knife-on-tree]

vote Venmar

[borkjerfkin]

I don't know about Venmar. The wagon speed here is giving me a lot of pause.

Toog's a better lynch. The cog-dis required to say that his

strongest townreads

result from negative connections to a member of a team that

he thinks has no living members (and therefore no scum to generate positive connections with Majiffy)

is extremely blatant.

(This would be a lousy point even if there were blue alive - even he thinks there are two red.)

6105 is a backpedaly mess.

Also the game is probably 3 red 3 blue. MS isn't flipping Ninja as a member of the 'weaker' scum team when we have a flipped town tracker that was pretty much designed to catch blue making kills, not red making kills. Where does Red start to become weaker?

Venmar hop on.

Also BBMolla is being obtuse as hell about the setup / night actions / toog vs snow and it looks fucking terrible.

[Venmar]

I'm getting lynched, not much I can do.

Vote: Toogeloo

[Venmar]

Like, how can anyone vote me, from my PoV everyone else is stupidly scummy and I am an obvious, obvious mislynch. You guys are lynching me for lynching scum, something that might have ruined a single objective. Big fucking deal, jesus. I swear, the objective system has only been a negative force so far, nobody has fulfilled them yet they possess our actions. It's dumb.

[borkjerfkin]

It's only been a negative force because people keep not listening to me.

I mean luckily we got ika and skot on the wagon yesterday, but we'd have been in an infinitely better position by getting Rogue and BBMolla on too and that's really the only reason I'm kinda squinting at you because I don't feel that the Feu wagon was in danger of falling apart and I am confused by why you just didn't wait it out.

Like it or hate it, the objectives are there to be achieved, and the setup was designed around having those abilities available. I haven't advocated finagling the lynch target to achieve them since D1 (and honestly even I realize that was a bad idea at this point), but I

have

been trying to organize the wagons especially when I feel we had a surefire scum lynch as we had with Feu yesterday, as I feel that this doesn't at all detract from scumhunting. My motivations here are really transparent and really pro-town and it's frustrating for me for people to be on totally different pages than me about it.

Regardless I don't want to lynch you today.