Stargate SG-1 Mafia- Game OVER! BUT WHO WON!?

[RafK]

Scum or not, that wagon was WAY too fast. It's a proven fact that scum like shorter days because it gives them less of a chance to screw something up.

Interesting. What do you think of erg0's hammer on johhan yesterday?

[TBuG]

It was awfully advantageous.

[Erg0]

Advantageous in what respect?

[TBuG]

You didn't exactly give logic, and there was already enough support for the wagon that you could hammer without an outstanding fear of repercussion.

[Erg0]

Ok, sure. So to whom are you saying my hammer was advantageous? Both you and RafK are clearly implying something here.

[Occult]

2 questions:

1. Why did you hammer johhan, erg0?
2. Pollux, what do you think of erg0?

[Erg0]

Finally, someone who's prepared to ask a direct question! Ok, it's like this:

The basic reason for I voted for Johhan was that his claim didn't include the name of his character. I didn't see any reason that a townie would exclude this information. As can be seen on the page before I hammered, I asked him twice after his claim (in 212 and 220)

who

he was - i.e. which character. The reason that I asked this was that I had already hit on the idea that we're now discussing, i.e. that the scum might have been given characters to use as safeclaims. I was hoping that Johhan wouldn't realise why I was asking, and would give us his fake character name (if he had one) so that his lynch would tell us for certain whether safeclaims were in play.

Johhan posted a number of times without even acknowledging my question, hence I figured that he did not intend to answer because he knew it was a bad idea. At that point we were not going to get any more out of him, so it was time to hammer. It is true that I may not have hammered at this point if the lynch had not been so well-supported, but that would be true whether I'm town or scum.

Regardless, I'm happy with the hammer. Johhan was a goner - a number of people had said they were going to hammer him once the town was ready, so it's not like any scum were going to pop their heads up and try to save him. From that point on, any scum with half a brain were just going to be trying to shore up their positions by appearing as pro-town as possible. In my opinion, there was no further good information to be gained.

RafK appears to be sore because I hammered when he wanted to try and get Johhan to reveal his safeclaim (though we posted at pretty much the same time so I hadn't seen his post when I voted, obviously). This is the post he made at the same time as my hammer:

I'd like to see johhan name-claim as well. In a theme game the ability to break the game and ID the mafia through a mass name-claim is always something that mods design to avoid. Be interesting to be able to see if the scum have safe claims provided, or if they claim random flunkies, or whatever. johhan's claiming like someone trying to avoid giving their real role (e.g. scum), and if he continues to not give his name then just hammer and be done with it, but the type of name he claims could come in handy.

As I noted in my post-hammer reply, in the process of putting forward this idea RafK basically laid out all of the reasons why Johhan

shouldn't

name-claim if he were scum. What was this post supposed to achieve? It certainly wasn't going to lead to us learning anything about safeclaims from Johhan, since it was pretty much 100% certain by this point that he would be hammered and his true role revealed. This was why I was trying to ask the same question in a less direct fashion.

If anything, this makes RafK look suspicious in retrospect - it may be that he's coaching Johhan not to reveal his identity in the guise of trying to make a helpful suggestion to the town. He even shows later (in post 448) that he knows there were good reasons for Johhan not to claim, so RafK can't claim that he accidentally warned Johhan without realising the significance of the question. I hadn't really noticed this before, but with my attention drawn to these posts it does look to me like a potentially scummy move.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Also, I'm much better looking in real life. Not bald or anything.

Again, go town.

I know I'm not supposed to talk, but I do in fact look exactly like Tony Amendola in real life. True story.

[spectrumvoid]

I don't like this whole discussion on claiming, name-claiming, safe-claims etc. I don't see how it helps us in anyway. Rather, it's giving scum way too many ideas.

[DYH]

Frankly, I don't see any reason to move my vote from Pollux; I'm pretty uninspired by his claim and defense.

This erg0/RafK battle is interesting. On one hand, erg0 made some plays yesterday that have me questioning his intentions- particularly his attack on ABR in the midst of the Johhan wagon (posts 161-171). Also, his pushes at getting Johhan to claim his name, which he's now relying on as a pro-town tell, could just as easily been an attempt to say "hey, stupid, check your PMs for that fake-claim!" as it could've been an honest attempt to garner information. Johhan hadn't totally drowned himself at that point.

Erg0 does make a valid point, however, in that by RafK basically explaining what we wanted from the name claim, it sabotaged its likelihood of happening. On the other hand, however, dropping a hammer vote (erg0) wasn't exactly going to draw it out, either.

FoS: erg0

I've played quite a bit with RafK, but I'm getting mixed signals this game. I'm keeping an eye out.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This has become very interesting, I would like to see this answered too:

2. Pollux, what do you think of erg0?

On the RafK Erg0 issue, I think that the mafia would try to

avoid

revealing the existence and nature of the safe-claims. In that sense, I don't see RafK as sending a secret message to Johhan to "check his pm box".

[Pollux]

For the question, im not sure of Erg0. He hasnt really stood out for me, but then again, i missed one of his posts already, so u can be sure at some point im going to look back at a few of his posts. Right now though, all i can say is that i dont really have any information about him being either scum or town, nor do i have any opinions either, since i dont know what to think, lol. If you wait for a bit, ill have myself an opinion, but for the next hour or 2, im going to be real busy with mowing our lawn and covering my car, etc. work is fun >_<


paraphrasing my role, it says i am "Gentle and Loyal, and i am very dedicated to helping lynch the scummies outta here. im a townie with no other roles, and that i win with the town."

I am just telling the truth here, because i dont want lynched >_<

be back in a few hours if anyone else has questions.

[Erg0]

On one hand, erg0 made some plays yesterday that have me questioning his intentions- particularly his attack on ABR in the midst of the Johhan wagon (posts 161-171). Also, his pushes at getting Johhan to claim his name, which he's now relying on as a pro-town tell, could just as easily been an attempt to say "hey, stupid, check your PMs for that fake-claim!" as it could've been an honest attempt to garner information. Johhan hadn't totally drowned himself at that point.

Quick correction: I am not relying on name-claims as a pro-town tell, otherwise my vote wouldn't still be on Pollux, would it? Rather, I

was

(note past tense) relying on Johhan's

lack

of a name-claim as a scum tell. This is no longer a valid line of thinking, since the entire name-claim issue is now out in the open.

Side note:

in re-reading, I notice that xyzzy also appears to hint in 216 that he wants Johhan to name-claim. Johhan quotes him when replying in 218, but doesn't seem to get the hint (or deliberately ignores it).

Now I have a question: A number of people seem to feel that day 1 was rushed, and a number of people think that the Albert mini-wagon was an attempt to distract the town from the Johhan wagon. To my mind, these two points are mutually exclusive - if the Albert votes hadn't occured we probably would have lynched Johhan a page earlier since there were no other suspects at that point (besides Lowell, but his wagon just kind of petered out). I actually find this situation kind of ironic, since the reason that Albert was attracting votes was that he seemed to be trying to rush the day.

So, which is it? What's everyone's view on this?

[Pollux]

veiw on what exactly?

the Rush of Albert? or the Votes of Al after him rushing?

ill be gone in 5 minutes, but i wanted to get that question out.

[Erg0]

Your view of whether day 1 was in fact rushed, or whether the Albert wagon was an attempted distraction. Or both, if you feel like arguing my basic point.

[xyzzy]

For the question, im not sure of Erg0. He hasnt really stood out for me, but then again, i missed one of his posts already, so u can be sure at some point im going to look back at a few of his posts. Right now though, all i can say is that i dont really have any information about him being either scum or town, nor do i have any opinions either, since i dont know what to think, lol. If you wait for a bit, ill have myself an opinion, but for the next hour or 2, im going to be real busy with mowing our lawn and covering my car, etc. work is fun >_<


paraphrasing my role, it says i am "Gentle and Loyal, and i am very dedicated to helping lynch the scummies outta here. im a townie with no other roles, and that i win with the town."

I am just telling the truth here, because i dont want lynched >_<

be back in a few hours if anyone else has questions.

Is your role in the first person, like you have it here?

[Elias_the_thief]

I'm getting a town vibe from erg0, based off of 456. He raises some good points, and his point about Raf adds to my previous of suspicion of him (I havent mentioned it before, dont bother looking back).

On the topic of the claim from Pollux, im not really certain. Im going to look back at his vote history to give me some perspective, as well as reread.

Being the one who started the Albert wagon, or at least partially started it, I'd like to say that I just found his post scummy, and his responses to my attacks even more scummy, leading me to vote him rather than Johhan. As for the people that jumped on later, I do find it likely that those among them with the least reasoning could be scum trying to distract from Johhan. Although it seems like a pretty transparent trick in my mind. Also being one of the people that didnt hop on the Johhan wagon, I cant really speak for the rushed day portion of the question.

[Pollux]

no, its in third person. i just fitted it to myself since..its me.

if u really want it like that, it says

You are Walter Harriman. You are gentle and loyal, and are very dedicated to rooting out the scums. You are a townie with nothing but the lynch vote. You win with the town.

basically, it says it like that.

Day 1 was a bit rushed, yes, but it did get us a scum, which was a nice trade off.

I do not think the albert wagon was a distraction. Some people really thought we were netting us a townie, and they didn't appreciate someone rushing us along to get a lynch. Albert right now is on my townie list, until otherwise.

[TrustGossip]

I REALLY hope you didn't just quote your role PM verbatim.

[xyzzy]

Why did you express it in the first person?

You even put quotation marks around it! Why?

[Pollux]

no i didnt

i changed words around and made new ones, i saw that rule clearly

[Pollux]

to post 469

I expressed it in first person because i am typing it, and it seems for me to make more sense to do it from me. I put quotes around it to tell u i had started with it and finished with it

[xyzzy]

Oh, and post 216 referred to another player's role name; I know of a particular role name which belongs to an innocent player, a bit of useful information that allows me to confirm some player if they claim.

I suspect all or most townies have something like this.

[RafK]

xyzzy: doubt it. Townies who can clear another townie completely are semi-masons, and actually have the most powerful bit of the mason role (the talking isn't actually very powerful unless the masons also have other abilities). If every townie could clear someone, the game would be breakable very very fast.

[TonyMontana]

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