NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[Psyche]

@elyse:

sounds like aegor but with less attitude

[Elyse]

But texcat must be destroyed.

But texcat must be destroyed.

Why?

ISO me for the answer! I have already explained why texcat is really scummy.

i still don't think you push hard enough

EVERYONE, VOTE TEXCAT.

This game is moving so quickly and is so disorganized that I would probably be fine lynching most players.

But vote texcat.

You haven't given any reasons for voting texcat since Post #772.

Those reasons were more than sufficient to justify votes that have not yet arrived, and his complete lack of contribution since then is another strong reason, if additional ones are needed.

Most of your other posts regarding him are "Vote texcat", which is no better than most of Oka's posts of "Why isn't Tree dead yet?". You also said in that same post that Oka can die too, and yet you're trying to get people to vote texcat when there's already an Oka wagon rolling. Can you explain to me why?

Because I feel strongly that texcat is scummier than Oka, and no one -- even upon request -- has been able to tell me why he is not. Oka

can

die, but I would rather at least get a texcat wagon rolling.

Is there any danger to at least wagoning him?

Hm. You're right.

[Psyche]

i agree that it's important for oka to try to engage more with what's going on besides just repeatedly egging on a lynch in uninspired ways
and that reliance on this sort of lynch pushing to simulate actual contribution to the game is a great and even common strategy
but ive mislynched aegor before for doing something like this, and i need reason to think that oka won't go the same way

so i'm going to promise to vote oka by the end of tomorrow if he doesn't give us a substantial overview of his understanding of the game and its players asap

[Psyche]

from which we'll go from there

[Titus]

what happened to the old plan to confirm him and stuff

It is not possible to confirm him.

[Psyche]

but isn't it if he's lying?

[shaddowez]

Wouldn't that require him living past toDay, and giving us a wrong result, which is in and of itself only confirmable by lynching?

[Titus]

Wouldn't that require him living past toDay, and giving us a wrong result, which is in and of itself only confirmable by lynching?

This.

[shaddowez]

Thinking about it that way, that gives him at least two Nights to be alive. I'm not certain enough that he's town to let him live that long.

VOTE: Aero

[Psyche]

Wouldn't that require him living past toDay, and giving us a wrong result, which is in and of itself only confirmable by lynching?

well if he's not an investigative town pr,
we probably have another one and it can check him out

[Titus]

Wouldn't that require him living past toDay, and giving us a wrong result, which is in and of itself only confirmable by lynching?

well if he's not an investigative town pr,
we probably have another one and it can check him out

Why should we out an investigative PR to lynch obvious scum?

[Psyche]

you seem to be vacillating
are we lynching him because it's not possible to confirm him or because he's obvious scum

[Aegor]

Titus thinks he is obvscum. Furthermore, his role, being non-confirmable, is consequently not a deterrent.

I see no vacillating.

[shaddowez]

Your initial question was if he was lying, which I answered. As for your new point, that depends on two factors, neither of which I'm really comfortable with.

1) What type of investigative role we have, and how badly he's lying. If he's a Godfather or an SK, a regular cop may not help. If he's fakeclaiming and have an actual town gunsmith, it won't help if he's a Mafia Doctor (or possibly an SK, not sure about that). If we have a role cop, still won't help to know if he's town or scum.
2) Whatever investigative role we do have will have to out themselves on D2 in order to clear one person. If we have a doctor we can try playing Follow the Cop, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if scum has a RB if we have an investigative role

and

a doctor.

[shaddowez]

Ninja'd by Titus on point 2.

[Psyche]

Titus thinks he is obvscum. Furthermore, his role, being non-confirmable, is consequently not a deterrent.

I see no vacillating.

he said that the role was not confirmable and then when i said that it was he went back to the same 'obvscum' thing that did not constitute a change in the situation warranting a vote

[tn5421]

Can someone give me a reason why Aeronaut is not getting votes?

Because lynching an uncc-d investigative role day one is roughly as idiotic as my general play has been over the past 5-10 pages or so.

[tn5421]

you seem to be

vacillating

are we lynching him because it's not possible to confirm him or because he's obvious scum

I apologize for this non-game-post but I've never encountered this word before.

Is this definition I found via google correct?

vac·il·late
ˈvasəˌlāt
verb
gerund or present participle: vacillating
alternate or waver between different opinions or actions; be indecisive.

[Aegor]

Yes

[shaddowez]

Can someone give me a reason why Aeronaut is not getting votes?

Because lynching an uncc-d investigative role day one is roughly as idiotic as my general play has been over the past 5-10 pages or so.

There may be duplicate roles, and they can be either Town or Scum.

How would a cc necessarily help? Even if we have another gunsmith, Aero could be town in which case we're in the same position we are now. And if there's not another gunsmith, no other role can be considered a cc since there could be more than one investigative role.

[Titus]

Can someone give me a reason why Aeronaut is not getting votes?

Because lynching an uncc-d investigative role day one is roughly as idiotic as my general play has been over the past 5-10 pages or so.

Except you a)know I am not an idiot and b) you have been been an idiot and off the wagon. This rule lets scumclaim investigator with no consequence.

[shaddowez]

Correction - should read "Aero and the other gunsmith could be town"

[Psyche]

Your initial question was if he was lying, which I answered. As for your new point, that depends on two factors, neither of which I'm really comfortable with.

1) What type of investigative role we have, and how badly he's lying. If he's a Godfather or an SK, a regular cop may not help. If he's fakeclaiming and have an actual town gunsmith, it won't help if he's a Mafia Doctor (or possibly an SK, not sure about that). If we have a role cop, still won't help to know if he's town or scum.

These things are possible and that's a good reason to feel okay lynching him eventually if no one comes out and either confirms or condemns him, but not on D1. There is a good chance that we do have roles that can test his claim, especially if he is scum, and for that reason — and because town-aero surviving turns him into a virtual lightningrod for scum and possible free info for us — it's a good idea to let him survive. For like a Day.

2) Whatever investigative role we do have will have to out themselves on D2 in order to clear one person. If we have a doctor we can try playing Follow the Cop, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if scum has a RB if we have an investigative role

and

a doctor.

Optimal play

is

to out oneself to nail confirmed scum.

[Psyche]

Aero is scummy, and we should lynch him, but not on D1.

[shaddowez]

I might be able to buy that. Who's your proposed lynch for D1 then? Or did you want to wait for when you do your reads list tomorrow?