I'll address what I don't like about the ectomancer case:
1.) The day kill thing does nothing if you don't take responsibility for your actions. You can't be a proponent for 'lying being a good townie behavior' and then expect people to have any kind of readable actions based on your little stunts. You claimed to be a dayvig in a very cheeky way, and anyone who reacted to it could also have been interpreted to do so either ignoring the stunt or messing around with you right back. That's the problem with claiming to lie as town - no one will believe you.
2.) This is followed up with a weak attack based on Lynch All Liars. As you've seen in the post you created on the discussion board TSQ - most good players think there may be a RARE time to lie as town - but in general it is a good meta strategy to lynch all liars. Regardless you attack Ecto for bringing up some of your comments to discredit your opinion - and its actually a good point on his part. If you are constantly joking around and making false statements - it DOES change how things you say are to be trusted.
3.) I agree that attacking people for doing something you've been doing is not very smart. You've been doing this too, however. So you're attacking someone for attacking you for doing something that they've been doing when you've been attacking them for attacking you for doing something that you've been doing.
4.) His arguments regarding the use of outside the game familiarities aren't strong, I'll give you that. I don't know if they are an honest attempt at placing suspicion though.
5.) I see your point that he was backing off way too sharply - but in your analysis of this post you are leaving off the fact that he IS addressing some of your previous objections and answering your claims against him. What more do you really want?
6.) The argument about outside names, in my opinion, holds no water inside the state of the game.
7.) I think post 13 was an honest attempt to stop discussion that was dooming the game. I don't think he was looking for approval necessarily - but I do think he wanted to drop the issue.
8.) I'm not sure voting Quag - who wasn't being voted just ignored - was scummy. Putting pressure whom you think is doing something suspicious is bad for town? I don't think so personally... Anix vote by Ecto was a bad play and I believe something Ecto did because of the incredible rudeness directed at him. Should the vote have been made, probably not. Is it evidence of scummy behavior - as I said before I think the argument regarding the outside names holds no value in determining scum in this game.
9.) This post you quoted is full of true meta-strategy and analysis. The fact that you dismiss it was the biggest reasons I find this whole case rather forced. Ecto's defense of this point of his attack on Quagmire is rather comprehensive and I feel no need to add to it. I don't agree with Ecto's attack of Quagmire - but that doesn't make him inherently scummy.
Your last point is rather bad. Ecto has been contributing - more so than CPE (and others) by VOLUMES. You may not agree with his points (nor may I) but there isn't more than misconstrued logic (not crap logic) that is making them unpalatable. I don't find they points made in your case anywhere near enough for a vote to be honest.
In your first response against his defense - you do make a good point - but you exaggerate it. Ecto is applying a straw man defense in many ways - but that's not true for EVERYTHING he's been saying to defend himself. And even though the nature of the argument he puts across (as in the form it takes) is in its execution a fallacy - the content of it is often not. Pointing out Kison voted first is NOT a tell. Your actions were NOT going to expose any kind of scum. Seriously townies would be as likely to avoid the vote as scum after that display if they believed you - and if they didn't their actions following your outburst AREN'T telling.
In your next attack of his defense YOU put up the straw man. Rather than address HIS points, you create a false point that he didn't defend. Your point WAS that LAL is not a strong strategy and Ecto attacked that (rightfully so in my opinion). Any attack on CPE is good town play - especially when he admits he doesn't want to help town...
Your next attack was AGAIN a straw man tactic - for someone who seems to think this is damning of Ecto you sure use it a lot... HIS point was that it doesn't matter if you respond to multiple posts with one post - your reply was "you hid two posts in one." How does that combat his point? You also attack him for not saying why scum would react to your behavior - but his behavior wasn't really strange enough to attract attention. Maybe this is an issue of not knowing how to get the proper reaction - but WHY would someone needs to know why scum would react to their behavior IF THEY WERE TOWN?
Scum want easy lynches sure - but scum like built up cases that have the air of legitimacy more. Ecto has not been attacking the easiest lynch so far this game - Dean is FAR more indicative of that behavior. Ecto put some understandable pressure on Quagmire. My agreeing with Quagmire aside - it isn't scummy behavior. You're saying that townies seeing scummy behavior and acting on it is scummy behavior in so many words. That's just plain WRONG.
Guys, lets continue the trend of TSQ trying to defend inexcusable actions by attributing honest emotional reactions with scum tells. Because that's constructive <sarc>. YOUR the one not getting the point - HES not the one that keeps bringing up your inappropriate behavior - YOU are using his reaction of that behavior as an attack against HIM. YOU are missing the point - This behavior is pointless to the finding of scum, it makes the game less fun, makes people feel uncomfortable about playing with you and HINDERS THE GAME. So drop it. It's not a tell. Move along.
You can test the waters in far better ways. An unexplained vote during a lull in the game designed to illict responses is far more effective and far less offensive than the tactics you've tried the game (which in all honesty have amounted to nothing in the way of finding scum no matter how you try and spin it.)
3 of 4 of your "arguments" are about the same thing - the inappropriate behavior by you, CPE, and Anix and are invalid. The other point you didn't really make in any clear way as I've just been re-reading these arguments and its not in there. And yes, the volume of the case IS fluff. It could have been said in far fewer words with less quotes and been as effective. The only reason I can think of to make it that long would be to see if people wouldn't scrutinize it point by point as I am doing.
I understand your point about pressure - but I disagree - if there are NO votes on someone no matter what the tenor of the town there's no real pressure. Ecto did the right thing if he thought that Quag needed some incentive to explain his actions. YOU are the scummy one in this scenario for attacking that point so vehemantly.
Ecto's defense of your next attack was crap. He didn't summarize your points adequately and it doesn't really seem like he read it throughly. He did come across a bit too complacent regarding it - I would have as well considering that it was utter crap - but I would have actually had a good reason to.
To summarize for all the TLDR people: I think TSQ's attack was basically either made up of crap reasons, non-tells, or a discussion that was outside the realm of this game and thus is largely invalid. Ecto has what appears to be no skill in defense and makes himself look even worse, which is unfortunate if he's town
I don't think Ecto is the play, I'd love to see an Anix lynch but we aren't going to today. Dean or Cephrir (Ecto's attack is far better than his defense) shouldn't survive to tomorrow - but I'm leaning more on Dean because I think he's more obviously scum lazy townie like Cephrir and CPE. TSQ, I don't really like your method of playing, but that shouldn't be enough to condemn you. If I garnered one thing from your attack and reading out of game material its that you may actually believe what you say is beneficial for town - because of that I can't just write your behavior off as scummy- but I wouldn't be sad to see you night killed. I feel horrible saying that, just so you know.
I'm suspicious - in every sense of the word.
