Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[RoyalApe]

Generally players that hand out reads for seemingly arbitrary reasons get the stink eye from me.

Fair enough but I rarely find reasons to suspect people other than arbitrary ones so prepare to give me a lot of stink eyes.

I hope this isn't the case. It isn't that hard to find at least semi-legitimate reasons to suspect players.

I don't like this response. It seems to indicate that it is OK to find arbitrary reasons to point to in order to justify a crap vote.

I generally like to see real reasons myself, it gives more to judge players by, both good and bad. If Duckling isn't going to provide reasons for his suspicions - ok - it will just make it harder for me to trust him.

I think this may just be an issues of definition. Arbitrary means without reason, and I said with reasons, so it wouldn't be arbitrary. I think the ultimate point is that I think even a suspicion based on

something

legitimate is good, even if it may not be the strongest case in the world, because at least that little something can get us somewhere.

I agree with that. Arbitrary probably isn't the best word there, but I took issue with saying "semi-legitimate" reasons should be given to support somebody's case.

The way I read that sounds more like something somebody would tell in a private scum chat. In other words, go ahead and accuse random people, you can find something to use to support your case, it isn't that hard.

That said, everything else that I've read from you tells me that you probably wouldn't slip like that if you were scum.

[Dry-fit]

@dryfit: do you agree with what Toby/duck feel about acryon?If so why?

No. I have acryon as being pretty null right now.

RoyalApe, who is scum?

[FakedBlogger]

Farside
Chaos
Toby
Skelda
Jogger

Updated null-scum list.

What's the basis of your scumread on me?

[Astinus]

And who's scum-reading me, and for what reason?

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

And who's scum-reading me, and for what reason?

Not a fan of this post.

On a different note, instead of bickering over some GD issue and asking scummy questions, how do you feel about actually participating? Y'know, post your opinions about others, ask questions, take a look at posts that other people have found scummy/townish and throw in your opinion. You've seen the other people playing do this, it's your turn now.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

A.F.F. is probably my best town read so far.

The first few posts that I really noticed from her seemed like she was just trying to appear to be participating as I saw her throwing questions out and I felt she was trying to mediate more than participate in the discussion itself.

Now that I see her reacting to some of the responses with her opinions, I'm feeling better about her.

Out of curiosity, in which posts was I trying to appear to participate, and how did they differ from the participation level of others around that time?

[farside22]

I have no idea what's going on.

UNVOTE:

I'll give this a try tomorrow.

I feel like this is a Towntell. I know I definitely felt this way just before my posts in this game. Would scum be less likely to say that they were confused? I dunno, I feel like Town are more open about how they are feeling.

Null. Seen both alignment say something similar but I always tend to keep an eye on the player to see if that tell moves.

Generally players that hand out reads for seemingly arbitrary reasons get the stink eye from me.

Fair enough but I rarely find reasons to suspect people other than arbitrary ones so prepare to give me a lot of stink eyes.

I hope this isn't the case. It isn't that hard to find at least semi-legitimate reasons to suspect players.

I don't like this response. It seems to indicate that it is OK to find arbitrary reasons to point to in order to justify a crap vote.

I generally like to see real reasons myself, it gives more to judge players by, both good and bad. If Duckling isn't going to provide reasons for his suspicions - ok - it will just make it harder for me to trust him.

He is saying he hopes it's not the case how is that equal okay?

I have no idea what's going on.

UNVOTE:

I'll give this a try tomorrow.

I feel like this is a Towntell

. I know I definitely felt this way just before my posts in this game. Would scum be less likely to say that they were confused? I dunno, I feel like Town are more open about how they are feeling.

I couldn't disagree more. I also find it odd that you'd consider this a Townie post.

I thought it was an odd read as well. By itself, I think Jogger's post is null, just a bit of frustration.

Skelda's post is scummy to me because I'm reading it as "hey, this is a townie, I know because I felt the same way". In other words, I'm reading this as trying to get town to subconsciously think Skelda is townie without having to outright state "Hey everybody, I'm town, please move along elsewhere".

Frustrated?
Okay.....

[farside22]

And who's scum-reading me, and for what reason?

Your not exactly ring town.
My notes are derp and then lurk. Not giving reads and new.
Waiting for input for reads to move from null.

I need to recheck a few players.

[RoyalApe]

@dryfit: do you agree with what Toby/duck feel about acryon?If so why?

No. I have acryon as being pretty null right now.

RoyalApe, who is scum?

No clue yet. Who do you think is scum?

[RoyalApe]

Generally players that hand out reads for seemingly arbitrary reasons get the stink eye from me.

Fair enough but I rarely find reasons to suspect people other than arbitrary ones so prepare to give me a lot of stink eyes.

I hope this isn't the case. It isn't that hard to find at least semi-legitimate reasons to suspect players.

I don't like this response. It seems to indicate that it is OK to find arbitrary reasons to point to in order to justify a crap vote.

I generally like to see real reasons myself, it gives more to judge players by, both good and bad. If Duckling isn't going to provide reasons for his suspicions - ok - it will just make it harder for me to trust him.

He is saying he hopes it's not the case how is that equal okay?

I believe you are misreading my statement. I didn't say that acryon said what duckling was doing was ok at all.

I said that it seemed to make it sound like using "semi-legitimate" reasons (I called it arbitrary) was ok. I think that statement sounds like supporting the use of weak evidence to support an argument.

Acryon has since responded and I clarifed as well.

I have no idea what's going on.

UNVOTE:

I'll give this a try tomorrow.

I feel like this is a Towntell

. I know I definitely felt this way just before my posts in this game. Would scum be less likely to say that they were confused? I dunno, I feel like Town are more open about how they are feeling.

I couldn't disagree more. I also find it odd that you'd consider this a Townie post.

I thought it was an odd read as well. By itself, I think Jogger's post is null, just a bit of frustration.

Skelda's post is scummy to me because I'm reading it as "hey, this is a townie, I know because I felt the same way". In other words, I'm reading this as trying to get town to subconsciously think Skelda is townie without having to outright state "Hey everybody, I'm town, please move along elsewhere".

Frustrated?
Okay.....

I'm not sure what you are referring to here by "frustrated?"

[RoyalApe]

A.F.F. is probably my best town read so far.

The first few posts that I really noticed from her seemed like she was just trying to appear to be participating as I saw her throwing questions out and I felt she was trying to mediate more than participate in the discussion itself.

Now that I see her reacting to some of the responses with her opinions, I'm feeling better about her.

Out of curiosity, in which posts was I trying to appear to participate, and how did they differ from the participation level of others around that time?

My read of you was through ISO and I wasn't trying to compare your participation to others. Everyone participates differently, so comparisons don't do anything for me.

What i was looking at was I originally just saw you asking questions of others but not submitting your own opinions.

My ISO showed you giving opinions on what others were saying, so you are now giving us something to judge you on.

I'm getting a good tone read from you.

[SnugglyDuckling]

Duckling

I'm impressed because I felt this exact same way.

Unvote and Vote acryon

Why didn't you say something sooner? What is acryon scum motivation for doing it?

I don't know, maybe Toby wrote it in the thread before I read acryon's post and by the time I got around to writing my post I had read both of their posts. That's what I'd assume anyway. I did think the same thing though. Scum motivation would be waiting around until somebody mentions you before popping your head in to write a few words. Anyway all things considered I'm going to

unvote acryon

anyway because there was something later which made me think he was town (but I don't want to read 2 pages again to find out what it was).

Vote: chaoslord54

Seems like a good place to put my vote right now.

[Dry-fit]

@dryfit: do you agree with what Toby/duck feel about acryon?If so why?

No. I have acryon as being pretty null right now.

RoyalApe, who is scum?

No clue yet. Who do you think is scum?

Chaoslord. Maybe farside.

[Baezu]

Vote Count 1.04

Chaoslord54: (4) Dry-fit, Mr_Blonde, acryon, Snugglyduckling
TobyLoby: (1) Farside22
Mr_Blonde: (1) RoyalApe
Farside22: (1) Chaoslord54, Belisarius
acryon: (1) TobyLoby
Belisarius: (2) Amy Farrah Fowler, Skelda

Not Voting: cerberus48, Astinus, NakedJogger

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-09 18:18:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[Skelda]

And who's scum-reading me, and for what reason?

Not a fan of this post.

On a different note, instead of bickering over some GD issue and asking scummy questions, how do you feel about actually participating? Y'know, post your opinions about others, ask questions, take a look at posts that other people have found scummy/townish and throw in your opinion. You've seen the other people playing do this, it's your turn now.

I'm not sure who WOULD be a fan of that post.

Which of course begs the question of if scum would do something so blatantly scummy. He is new, and based on what he has given us so far, he just seems like an easy target to me. There is, of course, the off chance that he actually is scum, I don't think his play would be much different. But I don't think we have quite enough to make that decision yet. And most people seem to agree with me and have him as null. I think having him as anything else is scummy.

It is interesting how quickly the Chaos wagon is taking off. What is Chaos guilty of that Beli isn't other than not being around?

[TobyLoby]

@farside

,

]Sorry, what was the point of your question to duckling?
I don't see what it was.

"There were three people who self-voted up to this point. Why point out Astinus?"

The point of my question is to ask why ducky did this so I could find out why ducky pointed out Astinus when two other people did the same. That pretty much sums it up.

@Mr_Blonde

,

@Toby - Please explain the bolded quote of yours that is nested here. I missed this earlier, but here you appear to be linking me with Chaos by saying that he is coming to my defense - but end the quote by saying that he could just be busing Farside as well. I'm not following here.

You are saying that two other slots could potentially be scumbros with Chaos, which essentially makes Chaos scum in either situation, but you are voting whom? Also - I feel it's very early for such associative tells, even if soft. I find it a bit troubling that you'd associate this sort of defense to automatically mean wolf/wolf instead of potentially Chaos buddying/WKing.

I find it to be a stronger associate tell than a flat out scum tell. That means if you were lynched and flipped scum, I'd find it very likely that Chaos is scum too. It can work the other way around as well but the association tell isn't as strong I think, but still there. I said it could be busing farside but I don't find it as likely (mainly ruling out that idea). So no, what I said doesn't just make him flat out scum in the proposed situations. What you've stumbled across though is I don't have a town read on you.

I believe it less so to be buddying based on experience and what he said doesn't sound like buddying. He seems . . . concerned, if that is the right word.

I agree that it's very early for associate tells, so then why are you questioning me on not voting on that? I'm voting a scum read.

[TobyLoby]

Acyron, what is your read on Belisarus?

[FakedBlogger]

Generally players that hand out reads for seemingly arbitrary reasons get the stink eye from me.

Fair enough but I rarely find reasons to suspect people other than arbitrary ones so prepare to give me a lot of stink eyes.

I hope this isn't the case. It isn't that hard to find at least semi-legitimate reasons to suspect players.

I don't like this response. It seems to indicate that it is OK to find arbitrary reasons to point to in order to justify a crap vote.

I generally like to see real reasons myself, it gives more to judge players by, both good and bad. If Duckling isn't going to provide reasons for his suspicions - ok - it will just make it harder for me to trust him.

He is saying he hopes it's not the case how is that equal okay?

Dat stack of quotes

[FakedBlogger]

I think we've had enough discussion about personal views on general tells.

Who in this game actually did anything scummy up until this point?

[farside22]

I think we've had enough discussion about personal views on general tells.

Who in this game actually did anything scummy up until this point?

Do you have an oppinion on that? So far I saw AFF talk about bel and chaos.
She is the one that stands out the most as trying to figure things out.
I have null and leaning town reads and even stated those I was most suspicious of. I'dlike to read from others there views....like you.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

And who's scum-reading me, and for what reason?

Not a fan of this post.

On a different note, instead of bickering over some GD issue and asking scummy questions, how do you feel about actually participating? Y'know, post your opinions about others, ask questions, take a look at posts that other people have found scummy/townish and throw in your opinion. You've seen the other people playing do this, it's your turn now.

I'm not sure who WOULD be a fan of that post.

Which of course begs the question of if scum would do something so blatantly scummy. He is new, and based on what he has given us so far, he just seems like an easy target to me. There is, of course, the off chance that he actually is scum, I don't think his play would be much different. But I don't think we have quite enough to make that decision yet. And most people seem to agree with me and have him as null.

I think having him as anything else is scummy.

It is interesting how quickly the Chaos wagon is taking off. What is Chaos guilty of that Beli isn't other than not being around?

I'm not sure about that bolded part. Sometimes us not having quite enough to make a decision about her, especially at a point like this where we have enough to form a fairly stable read on anyone else, is scummy in itself. I don't like the fact that she posts something that's not especially relevant to this game (or asks a pretty awkward question) and then hides and keeps this one-irrelevant-post-a-day style up. It's the reason that most people have her as null, and every single extra post that adds to her crappost total is an extra notch on her scumminess scale (for me). So I have her as Null/Leaning scum right now. She can redeem herself by posting something smart, but right now she's getting scummier with every post.

On a note unrelated to my previous paragraph, I'm inclined to disagree with calling that post

blatantly

scummy. I can see noobtown/derptown posting something like that, but dismissing her as an easy target due to newness is a little much considering her lack of contribution towards the game.

[FakedBlogger]

Dry-fit, SnugglyDuckling and Royal Ape would be my scumpicks, based on discussions they picked out for themselves and how they responded to them. And I'm leaning null-scum on Amy and Skelda.

[Belisarius]

I look at this and go, would scum be so flippant?

Yep!

God I loved that game.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

Dry-fit, SnugglyDuckling and Royal Ape would be my scumpicks, based on discussions they picked out for themselves and how they responded to them. And I'm leaning null-scum on Amy and Skelda.

That's pretty interesting, considering most people don't have those as scumpicks. However you could have elaborated a bit more instead of going with something generic and wishy-washy. Please do provide examples.
And what are your reads on Bel and Chaos right now?

[Skelda]

I look at this and go, would scum be so flippant?

Yep!

God I loved that game.

UNVOTE:

You are clearly talented scum, so we should keep our eyes on you, but this is too Townie to ignore.

My top scumread is probably Chaos, but he has a lot of votes and so I'm not sure I want to join the horde. My top townreads are A.F.F. and NJ. A.F.F. because she is just town and Naked for his unique reads.