Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[Dry-fit]

Vote: ToastyToast

I feel like I have a bunch of decent townreads this game and no real scumreads besides Salamence. Nacho, Xay, Juls, and probably Iecerint are all town. I'm liking Elyse a little less now.

My number 2 suspect would probably be PV. I really don't like that ToastyToast vote.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC
I have reads - just not scumreads. But now I'm voting PerV.

Page 9 is still rather late to be getting them.

I see an FoS, and a vote based on some sort of interaction between two other players, but I can't seem to discern your scumlist. Would like to see it.

The strongest scumread is Salamence20, followed by Elyse. I don't have a solid scumread on anyone else.

[Elyse]

Why is it so bad?

Your scumread on me is because I don't have scumreads - and your only other scumread is Sala.

So basically, from your PoV, my only scumread should have been Sala. And since I gave reasons as to why I'm not scumreading him, there's not really a difference between us. It's just that you scumread Sala and I don't, and you scumread me for not scumreading anyone else.

[StrangerCoug]

Your scumread on me is because I don't have scumreads - and your only other scumread is Sala.

I've had Sala for awhile now, I had Dry-fit until Nacho explained how his actions were town, and now I have you. So that's not a valid excuse.

So basically, from your PoV, my only scumread should have been Sala.

That is not true at all. I said that you should have scumread someone—anybody that made sense—by now. Not Salamence20 specifically. If you thought Sala was town, then you should have someone else as scum, and all your voting has been out of "laziness". You have admitted that your Xayzeck vote was a pressure vote that you left even though you now thought he was town, and I'm not getting a genuine vibe from your PV vote.

And since I gave reasons as to why I'm not scumreading him, there's not really a difference between us. It's just that you scumread Sala and I don't, and you scumread me for not scumreading anyone else.

I scumread you for not scumreading anyone

PERIOD

. I am not trying to force you to sheep me; I am trying to force you to take an actual part in this game.

[RedCoyote]

I'm sorry, I haven't been real interested in playing and it's not fair to hold the spot if I am not going to participate.

Mod: Please replace me.

Sorry red

I'm sorry to hear that. I may have a player that is interested, but I'm looking for a replacement for Juls now.

Prodding Toasty.

[RedCoyote]

Versatility is a great keyword for this dual sign. Expressive and quick-witted, the Gemini presents two distinctive sides to his or her personality, and you can never be sure with which one you're going to come face-to-face. On one hand, the Gemini can be outgoing, flirtatious, communicative, and ready for fun, fun, fun. Yet when the other twin is present, you can find this air sign contemplative, serious, restless, and even indecisive. Both twins are able to adapt to life's circumstances well, making them wonderful people to know. Things are never boring when a Gemini is on the scene.

Gemini's lucky numbers today: 25, 12, 8, 14, 18, 10

"What lies behind you and what lies in front of you, pales in comparison to what lies inside of you." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

---

Vote Count 1 - 8

• Salamence20 (4) ( Dry-fit - Nachomamma8 - Xayzeck -
  PeregrineV
  - StrangerCoug)
  
  PeregrineV (2) ( Salamence20 - Elyse)
  ToastyToast (2) ( Iecerint - PeregrineV)
  Xayzeck (1) ( ToastyToast -
  Elyse
  )
  burn_209 (1) ( Juls)
  Dry-fit (1) ( Gemini Blind)
  Juls (1) ( burn_209)
  
  Not Voting (0) ()

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-09-08 15:35:00)

[Elyse]

I'm not saying I should sheep you.

What I'm saying is that you expecting me to have scumreads when you had one before me is wrong.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not saying I should sheep you.

No, but you

ARE

saying that

I

am saying that.

What I'm saying is that you expecting me to have scumreads when you had one before me is wrong.

In what way?

[Elyse]

I'm not explaining this in the right way.

You have two scumreads - Sala and me.

Your scumread on me is because I didn't have scumreads, so at that time (when I said I didn't have scumreads), your only scumread was Sala.

And I said I don't think Sala is scum.

So who was my scumread(s) supposed to be? I literally wasn't scumreading anyone, and you can't fault me for that because you weren't either - except for Sala who I specifically said I didn't find scummy. I wasn't going to make stuff up just to appease people.

And when rolls or Xay made me reflect on why I agreed with Sala's 207, it made me realize that PV was vote worthy.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not explaining this in the right way.

You have two scumreads - Sala and me.

Your scumread on me is because I didn't have scumreads, so at that time (when I said I didn't have scumreads), your only scumread was Sala.

And I said I don't think Sala is scum.

So who was my scumread(s) supposed to be? I literally wasn't scumreading anyone, and you can't fault me for that because you weren't either - except for Sala who I specifically said I didn't find scummy. I wasn't going to make stuff up just to appease people.

UNVOTE: Salamence20
VOTE: Elyse

As I said, I don't care that you didn't, and still don't, think that Salamence20 is scum. I care that it took you this long to get a read at all, be it Salamence20, PeregrineV, Xayzeck—I wouldn't even care if it was

ME

if you had a good reason to suspect me.

You've demonstrated that you know I'm not here to decide your scumreads for you. Now knock it off with the misrep.

[Gemini Blind]

I'm always ready for fun, fun, fun.

Elyse looks town to me, though I haven't been paying this game much attention.

Unvote

(go ahead and vote if you like, Jelly). I want to read the thread again. Personally I don't really find Salamence suspicious, nor do I have any strong scum reads atm.

~STD

[Elyse]

How am I misrepping you?

Whatever

[ToastyToast]

omfg I'm so sorry guys I forgot

[ToastyToast]

It is not random. Xayzeck had one of the better RVS votes and WP voted him for it. Scummy. Also, weird combination of friendly and confrontational. It's unsettling to read.

This is dumb. wagonwagonwagon may as well have fun with it and make xyasyjkek or whatever the wagon.

Is who has the blessings public knowledge?

^ This.

But yeah. Letting the dayvig decide on his own may not seem like the best idea on the surface—and it could very well be in unskilled hands—but it's better than essentially giving the scum a kill they don't deserve.

I agree. It means less manipulation, and oftentimes in the hands of someone who's opinion is in the minority, going against the majority can change the game. Liking StrangerCoug atm.

I want dayvig to claim intent to shoot before actually shooting, and I want them to shoot today. I want them to shoot today because mafia probably wants to hang onto the dayvig in order to wait for earlier LyLo or a suicide shot while going down, and both of those are less advantageous than forcing mafia to take a shot they will have to explain. I also see no advantage lost from giving whoever you're going to shoot a chance to claim/give final thoughts if town.

But isn't it more beneficial to use a dayvig shot when someone has gathered enough information to make a decision? Using it day 1 is no better than a random shot tbh.

oh and you voted me you suck.

From my point of view, we are town, so if the mafia has it I want to know about it. If town has it, I don't really need to know about it, but it's not something I want to be worrying about on D3-D4 if the person who held it got killed N1 for instance.

So basically you don't give a shit one way or the other. cool, what a refreshing and helpful point of view.

As the first sign of the zodiac, the presence of an Aries almost always indicates the beginning of something energetic and boisterous. Not much holds this sign back. They're eager, dynamic, quick, and competitive. When it comes to getting the ball rolling, an Aries is the best. Pioneering everything from work-related projects to parties with friends, these folks go for the gusto.

Damn right I am.

I actually agree with burns post on dayvig/set up spec I don't understand why people dislike it. Becoming more sure not to trust nacho, iec, or gem. However burns vote on juls is a vote in the wrong direction. She's full null right now..

It doesn't really matter if we know how the vig was really. It's not as if alignment affects who got the vig (as far as we know), and I'm sure town will claim it after the fact either way.

No.

I think we should use the vig as a "second lynch" for the town. Can the scum influence it? Sure. But the scum can influence a lynch in the same way.

gross. You should never let dayvigs get controlled by majority rules. Or any vigs for that matter. Because even if scum isn't influencing it, incorrect town can. And, again, D1 isn't enough time to come up with who you feel is town and who has a good handle on the game. Letting a majority creep in and control the dayvig 1)allows the person who used it to blame it on other people's influence, 2) allows those people to blame the dayvig. So no, let the dayvig do whatever the hell they want.

It's a scumtell because in my experience scum is more likely to talk exclusively about strategy in the early game. Why that is I'm not sure. It may be rolefising. It may be trying to look protown without taking any actual stances. In any case it's not strategizing in itself that's scummy. It's making strategizing te entirety or almost the entirety of your play.

Well its ok, like you say, as long as it isn't too much. We have an open setup so it is natural to do some thinking on it. But everyone is going to have a different opinion so it doesn't get anywhere usually.

Witness Protection: When I talked about how town Peregrine was based on timing, this is the flipside of the coin I was talking about. This was the type of vote that generally seemed like an attempt to convert the RVS Xay wagon to something serious or just continuing the momentum towards that lynch. I'm less excited about the vote since he seems to have flaked ( ).

...........................................................................................
That's called pushing.

yeah nacho-gemini are scum together.

*halfway there!* More after I finish this annoying math thing.

[ToastyToast]

And are there seriously 2 people on me based on one post? You have 11 pages and somehow my slot voting Sayscyek is the scummiest thing in the game?

[Xayzeck]

And are there seriously 2 people on me based on one post? You have 11 pages and somehow my slot voting Sayscyek is the scummiest thing in the game?

you aren't the biggest wagon

thus you aren't the scummiest thing in the game

[Gemini Blind]

I wrote out a vitriolic post but I have decided to instead post this adorable image someone showed me on skype.

Spoiler:

It's adorable and calming me down (my school just started today so I'm tired, forgive me if I get more angry than I should).

Attempt 2:

gross. You should never let dayvigs get controlled by majority rules. Or any vigs for that matter. Because even if scum isn't influencing it, incorrect town can.

Good thing our dayvig can't be scum nor incorrect town. OH WAIT.

ToastyToast, you've completely misreped me, I have a slew of posts where I give a shit about the dayvig. That post is one where I give a shit about the day vig. I say that if the mafia has it, I want that vig outted. If town has it, great. They can use it however they please, but as long as it's an unknown, I'm going to try to make it known. But thanks for ignoring everything else I said and not reading what you quoted correctly.

The dayvig is not confirmed town. So people should stop acting like we know town has the dayvig. We don't know that for certain. Letting the dayvig do what the dayvig wants to do is likely in our best interest, but that's a dangerous risk we're taking.

When mafia win because they drew an extra kill, don't come crying to me.

When towniemctownerson's "better judgement" kills a PR that we could have at least got a claim from, don't come crying to me.

If the dayvig's shot in the dark happens to kill a scum, hooray! If they nail a townie, well boo, but at least it's not a PR.

So read again, I've been fucking polarized on the dayvig situation.

Re-read soon.

~STD

[PeregrineV]

Vote: ToastyToast

I feel like I have a bunch of decent townreads this game and no real scumreads besides Salamence. Nacho, Xay, Juls, and probably Iecerint are all town. I'm liking Elyse a little less now.

My number 2 suspect would probably be PV. I really don't like that ToastyToast vote.

Toasty is null to you, and you don't like my vote on him? ¿Por que?

[ToastyToast]

ToastyToast, you've completely misreped me, I have a slew of posts where I give a shit about the dayvig. That post is one where I give a shit about the day vig.

Okay.

Dayvig: Gemini Blind

[ToastyToast]

i know people will complain and shit when you sheep me for the second time today but I'll yell them off, I'll get this lynch, and he will flip scum
believe in me who believes in myself thanks to my horoscope which legitimately says "you can do anything"

What have you done that is worth sheeping you for?

Dislike the Dryfit wagon...again, its not like people saying to avoid setup spec is out of the ordinary in the most games. You guys were looking at it for a while and it was going nowhere.

To be quite honest, I'm kinda at a loss for words right now. I don't know what to say :/ I think Nacho and Juls are town but I'm not really scumreading anyone at the moment.

This is scummy. I would expect town without solid reads to try to dig through pushes/questions....and she hasn't done that at all, regardless of the transparency on her lack of reads.

@DryFit: I'm excited to watch my fav djoker slaughter murray tomorrow

Right now I believe that, if Dry-fit and Nachomamma8 are the same alignment, they are both town. I'd expect a weaker defense of Dry-fit from scumbuddy-Nachomamma8.

but nacho could unknowingly be defending scum. So do you think dry-fit is town independent of nacho defending him?

Do you not think partway down page 3 is a little early to accuse people of being scum for talking about something interesting in the set up? Do you expect people to be actively scumhunting by then?

Hey do you know this thing called pressure votes? Should people be actively scumhunting by the middle of page 4, which is where you hunted burn? Seriously its not like anyone throws a vote down in the first 4 pages and is like OMG GUSY THIS PERSON IS SCUM 100%. Which, by the way, is the same thing people did with my Xayzek vote.

My biggest problems with your play this game is that you didn't do this, not that your theory was wrong. Your talk about why your activity was low is fair enough and I will happily drop this point, but I don't think any of your posts about theory moved the game along or were meant to move the game along. You saying the dayvig should out is cool and all but not at all revolutionary.

Why does this make him scum? Does town have to be revolutionary to be town?

Is ToastyToast an Aires?

Yes.

I don't have a problem with it...see this is exactly what I'm talking about. You are hyper defensive, but I think it's just your personality and playstyle, not alignment indicative.

My vote is still on you because I don't really have a scumread. (I know it's bad, but not much is happening) I was thinking Sala, maybe, but his 207 read as town and I kind of agree with it. PV could be scum.

What about the game is making it hard for you to pinpoint scumreads?

I'm starting to lean scum on Elyse because even when she comes in to say she's having trouble with reads, she doesn't do much to try to change that. With the PV vote its a start, at least. I just don't think stating a lack of reads publicly and being sort of "down and out" at the inability to get into the game is a great defense, and its really all she has going for her right now.

@PeregrineV: would you describe your playstyle as one that starts slowly?

Vote: ToastyToast

is this vote based on "random undisclosed information," too?

but really I deserve the vote because I completely forgot I was in a game.

And are there seriously 2 people on me based on one post? You have 11 pages and somehow my slot voting Sayscyek is the scummiest thing in the game?

you aren't the biggest wagon

thus you aren't the scummiest thing in the game

ok xaxy it was an exaggeration, don't get all lynch all liars because of it.

Good thing our dayvig can't be scum nor incorrect town. OH WAIT.

I trust myself more than 12 people with differing opinions. I'm sure you do too. More people does not mean more accurate.

[Nachomamma8]

toasty finally caught up ^.^

[Nachomamma8]

wait did you seriously shoot gemini blind?

[Nachomamma8]

because if so, >.>
<.<

[Nachomamma8]

But isn't it more beneficial to use a dayvig shot when someone has gathered enough information to make a decision? Using it day 1 is no better than a random shot tbh.

I hope this means that the dayvig shot is a joke. I believe that using the dayvig day 1 is perfectly fine accuracy-wise: most of the reason later days are more informed than earlier ones is because of the people who are killed and give the town information. Town dayvigging facilitates that: it doesn't always hit scum, sure, but it'll make a later lynch more likely to hit scum and bring the town closer to winning if done properly.

yeah nacho-gemini are scum together.

Is your scumread predicated entirely on me voting your predecessor? Because if so, that's incredibly disappointing.

What have you done that is worth sheeping you for?

I've used good logic and good intentions to reach where I am today. What kind of question is this?

Why does this make him scum? Does town have to be revolutionary to be town?

That particular paragraph was a direct response to Salamence claiming that he moved the game forward and did a bunch of protown shit. The lack of interest and bullshit filler posts made Salamence more likely to be scum because scum are more likely to "post just to post" because their win condition requires no searching, no prodding, no nothing: it just requires not dying.
That

[Nachomamma8]

I'm pretty happy with toasty's catchup and salamence's catchup, which means intial reads weren't good.
Meanwhile...

Vote: PeregrineV