Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[curiouskarmadog]

Mod request that my name be update on Page 1
Okay typing notes or things I feel stuck out while reading. Mostly for me as a look back if I need it..

Unvote. Vote: farside22.

I'm not a fan of that random vote. Voting for a player being replaced isn't likely to cause any action.

first non silly vote? meh.

What is the point of voting for oneself? Avoiding voting someone else?

Vote: Astinus

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SnuggkyDuckling

There were three people who self-voted up to this point. Why point out Astinus?

Ohhh, now this is a scummy reason for a vote. 3 people self voted yes….But you don’t see ANYTHING different about the Astinus self vote? Really?

My vote was semi serious with so far 2 out of 2 times I've seen a player replace out after receiving a role pm and requesting replacement and still active else where, flip scum.

FARSIDE! Hello Dear!....Now..

Say what? Seen a lot of games (as have you) and I would disagree. In the scenario where someone sees their role and then decides they didn’t want to play that role, what MOST LIKELY did they get…Mafia or Vanilla town?

---
I kind of like the cut of Amy’s jib on page 3 (mostly post 72)

Dry-Fit redeems himself with his reasoning (and vote) of chaoslord in 81

I really like you Amy. I really hope you aren't scum because I'm just writing you off as Town in my head. Probably shouldn't do that, but I don't like thinking that people who agree with me are scum.

I have read this post 3 times. I dont like it. Trying to figure out why. It has the feel of someone who is scum, trying to win friends and form a bond. There is no point to it. At this point reading the game I felt like Amy was town too. Hell I state that above...but there is a difference between stating your opinion and this post....Scum Alarm is now sounding.

I have no idea what's going on.

UNVOTE:

I'll give this a try tomorrow.

I feel like this is a Towntell. I know I definitely felt this way just before my posts in this game. Would scum be less likely to say that they were confused? I dunno, I feel like Town are more open about how they are feeling.

whoa...someone else is town....for no reason.

Concerning Beli,

Beli, please tone down the sarcasm just a tad as it's not necessary and does nothing to aid the conversation.

I'm afraid I'm going to go ahead and reject that unfounded stipulation -- and, by the transitive property, the demand premised by it.

I look at this and go, would scum be so flippant?

I assumed that Beli would just be like that regardless of alignment. But that kind of brashness does seem town in general, so I dunno.

WTF?!?! more town...man, everyone is going to like you now. (ALARMS) also at this point he has his vote on Bel…..so which is it..do you think he is town or scum? I hope people call this out.

---
Mr. Blonde sees some of this in 136

Skelda's post is scummy to me because I'm reading it as "hey, this is a townie, I know because I felt the same way". In other words, I'm reading this as trying to get town to subconsciously think Skelda is townie without having to outright state "Hey everybody, I'm town, please move along elsewhere".

yep...so where is the vote?

@dryfit: do you agree with what Toby/duck feel about acryon?If so why?

No. I have acryon as being pretty null right now.

RoyalApe, who is scum?

No clue yet. Who do you think is scum?

Wait a minute, what?

It is interesting how quickly the Chaos wagon is taking off. What is Chaos guilty of that Beli isn't other than not being around?

if I was a betting man, I bet Chaos will flip town.

---
Page 7, Nakedjogger is useless.

I look at this and go, would scum be so flippant?

Yep!

God I loved that game.

UNVOTE:

You are clearly talented scum, so we should keep our eyes on you, but this is too Townie to ignore.

My top scumread is probably Chaos, but he has a lot of votes and so I'm not sure I want to join the horde. My top townreads are A.F.F. and NJ. A.F.F. because she is just town and Naked for his unique reads.

WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS? “everybody is townie, I don’t like the speed of the chaos wagon, but think he is “scummy”….I don’t want to put my vote on him because….???? Uhhh….I don’t want to be associated with his lynch when people look at the votes later. But I am still going to push he is scummy in hopes I can get others to vote him”

As of right now in the read, my vote would be solidly here.

What about the number of votes on him makes you not want to vote?

This is a good question from Toby.

Hey everyone, I'm replacing in. Got my role but don't know who's slot I'm grabbing. (I think cerberus?) Anyway, this post is mainly so I can get back to this thread whenever I log out, will be reading up now.

oh good...

VOTE: Acryon

Gut feeling on post 66. Seems he's buddying with with Mr Blonde.

REALLY? you thoroughly read the thread in 17 minutes? and put this vote down on ACRYON who appeared to be buddying? ACRYON? CALLING BS

(MORE SCUM ALARMS)

===


Okay caught up….

Vote Skelda

This guy has few solid scum reads on anyone (except now royal ape ) the entire game. He is attempting to buddy up with a good number of people. Is “wishwashy” about the Chaos wagon, but doesn’t have problems throwing fuel on it, without actually voting it.

There is your first scumbag…you are welcome.

Fixed

[acryon]

Call me easy to convince, but that analysis makes Skelda look

really

bad. Interested to hear the response.

[farside22]

CKD:

*Silently screams*

I get it. People don't agree, people may have there own view on what I said about requesting replacement at the start. I have seen it exactly twice and both times it was scum.

WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS? “everybody is townie, I don’t like the speed of the chaos wagon, but think he is “scummy”….I don’t want to put my vote on him because….???? Uhhh….I don’t want to be associated with his lynch when people look at the votes later. But I am still going to push he is scummy in hopes I can get others to vote him”

I'm going to disagree.
I don't see scum avoiding fast wagons and calling everyone town. It typically leaves them with no one to lynch.
If chaos was town pushing the wagon is more typical or jumping on the wagon calling chaos scummy.

What was your thought in Toby? She bugs me to no end.

[acryon]

WHY IS NO ONE SEEING THIS? “everybody is townie, I don’t like the speed of the chaos wagon, but think he is “scummy”….I don’t want to put my vote on him because….???? Uhhh….I don’t want to be associated with his lynch when people look at the votes later. But I am still going to push he is scummy in hopes I can get others to vote him”

I'm going to disagree.
I don't see scum avoiding fast wagons and calling everyone town. It typically leaves them with no one to lynch.
If chaos was town pushing the wagon is more typical or jumping on the wagon calling chaos scummy.
.

I see what you're saying, but I think building up town-cred is a lot more important day 1 for mafia than securing a lynch.

[Skelda]

Well, CMK, I don't think having townreads is particularly suspicious and townreads can be useful because they tell you who not to lynch. But I'm obviously a bit biased. You are very good at making convincing cases though. I might be convinced if I didn't know you were wrong.

But you see, having a lot of strong townreads on people gives you fewer scum options right there, and in a game where I don't have a whole lot of strong scumreads, if I have a townread I'm going to say something. Right now I'm feeling RoyalApe, Dry-fit, Toby, and/or Mr_Blonde for scum because pretty much everyone else has at some point given me something that feels genuine. Isn't finding town a valid way to find scum? I think townreading is easier than scumreading. AND both Dry-fit and Mr_Blonde are on the Chaos wagon, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a scummy place to be.

[curiouskarmadog]

I probably wont be posting again till Monday, so you get a 2fer today.

What was your thought in Toby? She bugs me to no end.

didnt like his first vote...

other than that has not bothered me. feel like he is asking good questions.

.
I don't see scum avoiding fast wagons and calling everyone town. It typically leaves them with no one to lynch.
If chaos was town pushing the wagon is more typical or jumping on the wagon calling chaos scummy.
.

So you don’t disagree with my assessment of him, you disagree that the moves are not scummy.

he clearly is pushing wagons, though. he has voted someone who he felt was townish. thoughts now?

Well, CMK, I don't think having townreads is particularly suspicious and townreads can be useful because they tell you who not to lynch. But I'm obviously a bit biased. You are very good at making convincing cases though. I might be convinced if I didn't know you were wrong.

But you see, having a lot of strong townreads on people gives you fewer scum options right there, and in a game where I don't have a whole lot of strong scumreads, if I have a townread I'm going to say something. Right now I'm feeling RoyalApe, Dry-fit, Toby, and/or Mr_Blonde for scum because pretty much everyone else has at some point given me something that feels genuine. Isn't finding town a valid way to find scum? I think townreading is easier than scumreading. AND both Dry-fit and Mr_Blonde are on the Chaos wagon, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a scummy place to be.

its CKD (so no one is confused)

it is not your town reads I have a problem with...it is the fact they were provide out of no where.

at what point did the Chaos wagon become a scummy place to be?

what is your assessment of my entry into the game? other than my read on you, any of my other observations stick out to you, why or why not?

[Dry-fit]

CKD is making me doubt my Chaos scumread. Or at least convincing me that Skelda and Chaos aren't both scum.

I don't see scum avoiding fast wagons and calling everyone town. It typically leaves them with no one to lynch.

I agree about scum not wanting calling everyone town, but that's more on later days with more clears. There's still plenty of time to change your reads later in the game on D1

[SnugglyDuckling]

Hi everybody! I've had a very busy last couple of days, moving into a new house and some other things. I hope I am not replaced yet! D':

you have not yet been replaced. You may post at will

[Astinus]

Actually I'm pretty confident Astinus is town. She's taking a pretty carefree approach to this game.

So that's how to be (or act like) a townie. Thanks for the comment and help!

the next time you post in thread I will report you and you will be banned. If you have comments to make you may PM me or write them down and share them at the end of the game. Thank you

[TobyLoby]

You aren't allowed to post in the thread anymore.

Way to wifom what that means though.

[TobyLoby]

What is the point of voting for oneself? Avoiding voting someone else?

Vote: Astinus

UNVOTE:
VOTE: SnuggkyDuckling

There were three people who self-voted up to this point. Why point out Astinus?

Ohhh, now this is a scummy reason for a vote. 3 people self voted yes….But you don’t see ANYTHING different about the Astinus self vote? Really?

I'm looking to see how they will explain it. It's not about what I see, it's asking what Snuggly sees that makes it different. As you can see with Snuggly's own explanation,

Probably just because he was the most recent.

They didn't take it as anything different as what you are assuming. Just that "he was the most recent." Which looking back I think it aligns with what their own original reasoning backs up. If they went into an over explanation that would look scummy to me.

Combined with their missing their question of mine that I believe they're genuine about, it makes me think they are town.

[TobyLoby]

The acyron vote switch to me is weird in combination with farside's chaos vote switch off me, especially when acyron's inspiration in part due to farside. I can't properly articulate what bothers me about it.

Regarding scum town reading a bunch of people, yes it happens and it can be a scum tell depending on how they go about it. It can be difficult for some scum to see through what they feel is obvious towniness. Usually they do it with a lot of null reads though. That hasn't very much struck me what Skelda is doing, but I need to reread the last few pages.

Actually, I read back a bit and remembered how he put Chaos at null so maybe. That retraction of the Chaos read is what is striking to me. The first part of the post looks like somebody calling out a scumread and it didn't follow through naturally to me to then call him null. It's hit me that Skelda may be using logic different from my own though.

[FakedBlogger]

VOTE: farside22

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

I think my vote is better off on someone else for pressure than on him at this point.

Don't you think that, bearing in mind the deadline, it's a little late to be pressure voting and expecting some sort of effect right now?

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

What was your thought in Toby? She bugs me to no end.

didnt like his first vote...

other than that has not bothered me. feel like he is asking good questions.

Do you feel that good questions make up for a lack of reads? I also notice that at times when the reply to one of Toby's questions is worth following up on someone else takes over. Not a fan of that, questions, unlike reads, are a harmless way to stay involved in the game.

[farside22]

The acyron vote switch to me is weird in combination with farside's chaos vote switch off me, especially when acyron's inspiration in part due to farside. I can't properly articulate what bothers me about it.

Regarding scum town reading a bunch of people, yes it happens and it can be a scum tell depending on how they go about it. It can be difficult for some scum to see through what they feel is obvious towniness. Usually they do it with a lot of null reads though. That hasn't very much struck me what Skelda is doing, but I need to reread the last few pages.

Actually, I read back a bit and remembered how he put Chaos at null so maybe. That retraction of the Chaos read is what is striking to me. The first part of the post looks like somebody calling out a scumread and it didn't follow through naturally to me to then call him null. It's hit me that Skelda may be using logic different from my own though.

It's 4 days? Maybe 3 now till deadline. I had one agree while most say nothing.
Lately I have noticed a lot of last minute wagons, which do not help, and choas is a scum read.
Chaos has been saying he would provide reads and didn't like the wagon. I expected a return by now and he hasn't shown. It's time for pressure.

So you don’t disagree with my assessment of him, you disagree that the moves are not scummy.

he clearly is pushing wagons, though. he has voted someone who he felt was townish. thoughts now?

He is voting for ape last I checked. Did I miss him voting a town read?
Where if so?
Chaos is scummy.
Did you read his last post?

Okay so I finally read through everything and this is my first comment on the wagon against me. Although looking back now, I can see how my vote and my reasoning can seem scummy I think the speed of my wagon and the lack of people questioning the idea of my one post proving rather or not I'm scum is actually a legitimate way to look at things is pretty bad.

I definitely think that scum is on my wagon and are influencing it

although to who is exactly scum I'm not quite sure. I'm going to post a reads list after my next class tonight and will go from there. Also, if there are certain questions I have missed please direct them towards me and I will do my best to answer.

I know I look scummy.
Wagon is quick and scum is on it.
The bold was said in game by Ramon here
Which means he's read the game and using someone else's view.
He is around and posting.

[farside22]

The second quote is CKD.

[TobyLoby]

I am referring to acyron weirdness more so than to you. I think you are most likely town. So I see you go some place and it makes sense to me and then when I look at his actions doing the opposite it doesn't make sense. I know I'm not articulating this well.

That is a good point on Chaos.

I didn't realize the deadline is so soon. I'm going to give the thread a once more lookyloo by tonight and get out more thorough reads before going forward.

[scrambles]

I actually disagree with mr blondes (guy I replaced) vote on chaos. I think he was being just a little too paranoid.
Skeletal does see very crummy do his buddy in attempts, but I think that can be chalked up to simple inexperience. It doesn't actually look like hes tried to take advantage of that relationship building, so unless hes playing for the long long game, I'd say his town readings were him trying to use process of elimination.
Time will tell on that though.

Can someone explain to me what beli was doing. Not sure I understand.

[chaoslord54]

Okay for starters I'm going to

Unvote

Looking through, it's hard for me to pinpoint everyone I think is scum but here are my leads at the moment.

I feel that AMY is definitely town and that unlike my original thoughts that Farside is town as well.

I don't quite see the logic on why people are thinking Skelda is scum because the logic that he brings up in 248 makes sense IMO but his post in 279 does come off a little fishy although I would not exactly call it scummy.

Now the person I think comes off the scummiest IMO is nakedjogger. Nakejogger had been pushing for a RoyalApe lynch for most of D-1 and then out of nowhere votes Farside with no explanation? That seems scummy to me.

[Baezu]

Vote Count 1.09

Chaoslord54: (3) Dry-fit, Snugglyduckling, Farside22
TobyLoby: (1) acryon
Belisarius: (1) Amy Farrah Fowler
RoyalApe: (1) Skelda
Skelda: (1) Curiouskarmadog
acryon: (2) TobyLoby, Ranon
Farside22: (2) Belisarius, NakedJogger

Not Voting: RoyalApe, scrambles, chaoslord54

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-09 18:18:00)

Mod Notes:
None

[Skelda]

Well, CMK, I don't think having townreads is particularly suspicious and townreads can be useful because they tell you who not to lynch. But I'm obviously a bit biased. You are very good at making convincing cases though. I might be convinced if I didn't know you were wrong.

But you see, having a lot of strong townreads on people gives you fewer scum options right there, and in a game where I don't have a whole lot of strong scumreads, if I have a townread I'm going to say something. Right now I'm feeling RoyalApe, Dry-fit, Toby, and/or Mr_Blonde for scum because pretty much everyone else has at some point given me something that feels genuine. Isn't finding town a valid way to find scum? I think townreading is easier than scumreading. AND both Dry-fit and Mr_Blonde are on the Chaos wagon, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a scummy place to be.

its CKD (so no one is confused)

it is not your town reads I have a problem with...it is the fact they were provide out of no where.

at what point did the Chaos wagon become a scummy place to be?

what is your assessment of my entry into the game? other than my read on you, any of my other observations stick out to you, why or why not?

Sorry about your name, not sure where that came from.

My townreads definitely weren't out of nowhere. It isn't like I'm pulling names out of a hat and choosing people to be town. What I'm doing is looking at people's posts and trying to see if the person who posts really thinks what they post. When Town post, they believe everything that they are saying is true even if it is awful. That's why I'm starting to think people like NakedJogger and Chaos are Town, because even though they don't always make the most sense they always seem to completely believe the things that they say.

The Chaos wagon became a scummy place to be when it became clear that Chaos was going to be easy to lynch. He is an easy target and he will be more than scummy enough to get well-meaning townies to vote for him. I wish we had a town game of his that I could go to, because I recognize him as someone who is going to be scummy no matter what his alignment is. And yes, it is easy to vote for her. There are plenty of reasons you can put and make your posts make perfect sense and once he flips scum, everyone won't hold it against you because he did act scummy. But I think there is a difference between acting scummy and being scum and if he isn't scum, he sure is an easy person for scum to mislynch Day 1.

Other than your posts about me, I completely agree with your first post. Your comments about Toby and Dry were very convincing, and then I read down a little and your comments about me were very convincing. I actually am going to give you a townread because heck, most of these people are town and there is nothing wrong with having a lot of townreads. You don't seem like someone trying to frame me, you seem like someone who actually believes I am scum.

Anyway, we don't have that many days left. We need to get some sort of wagon going pretty soon.

I'll do a VOTE: Toby.

[Astinus]

I'll get more in-depth with things later tonight. I think Astinus' behavior is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell.

I'd take that as a good point, right? I can hide my alignment beneath my personality and nobody will e able to tell who I am?

[chaoslord54]

Well, CMK, I don't think having townreads is particularly suspicious and townreads can be useful because they tell you who not to lynch. But I'm obviously a bit biased. You are very good at making convincing cases though. I might be convinced if I didn't know you were wrong.

But you see, having a lot of strong townreads on people gives you fewer scum options right there, and in a game where I don't have a whole lot of strong scumreads, if I have a townread I'm going to say something. Right now I'm feeling RoyalApe, Dry-fit, Toby, and/or Mr_Blonde for scum because pretty much everyone else has at some point given me something that feels genuine. Isn't finding town a valid way to find scum? I think townreading is easier than scumreading. AND both Dry-fit and Mr_Blonde are on the Chaos wagon, which is, as far as I'm concerned, a scummy place to be.

its CKD (so no one is confused)

it is not your town reads I have a problem with...it is the fact they were provide out of no where.

at what point did the Chaos wagon become a scummy place to be?

what is your assessment of my entry into the game? other than my read on you, any of my other observations stick out to you, why or why not?

Sorry about your name, not sure where that came from.

My townreads definitely weren't out of nowhere. It isn't like I'm pulling names out of a hat and choosing people to be town. What I'm doing is looking at people's posts and trying to see if the person who posts really thinks what they post. When Town post, they believe everything that they are saying is true even if it is awful. That's why I'm starting to think people like NakedJogger and Chaos are Town, because even though they don't always make the most sense they always seem to completely believe the things that they say.

The Chaos wagon became a scummy place to be when it became clear that Chaos was going to be easy to lynch. He is an easy target and he will be more than scummy enough to get well-meaning townies to vote for him. I wish we had a town game of his that I could go to, because I recognize him as someone who is going to be scummy no matter what his alignment is. And yes, it is easy to vote for her. There are plenty of reasons you can put and make your posts make perfect sense and once he flips scum, everyone won't hold it against you because he did act scummy. But I think there is a difference between acting scummy and being scum and if he isn't scum, he sure is an easy person for scum to mislynch Day 1.

Other than your posts about me, I completely agree with your first post. Your comments about Toby and Dry were very convincing, and then I read down a little and your comments about me were very convincing. I actually am going to give you a townread because heck, most of these people are town and there is nothing wrong with having a lot of townreads. You don't seem like someone trying to frame me, you seem like someone who actually believes I am scum.

Anyway, we don't have that many days left. We need to get some sort of wagon going pretty soon.

I'll do a VOTE: Toby.

I have links on my Wiki Skelda if you would like to look over some of my town games.

[Dry-fit]

VOTE: farside22

I hate naked votes.

Toby isn't a good place for a vote.

@Mod: Some serious action needs to be taken about Astinus posting in tread at this point. It's compromising the game.

I've reported her to Mr. Flay. I don't believe I have the power to ban her, do I? Is there anything else I should be doing? Sorry this has never happened to me before