Self-Voting: Why, barring setup, you should never do it

[Thor665]

Though I think this does require me to have the sight into the future for it.
Since I've never even come close to self-voting as town before, and I have been mislynched as town - so clearly my attitude is to save myself in other ways.

[ZZZX]

Define 'basically save'.

If it is 'would get me town read for multiple days' then the answer is 'yes, I would do it'.
If the answer is 'would get me to the next day phase and an uncertain future' than I would try to save myself in other ways.

Basically its a day one wagon and people are scum reading you for shitty reasons

so yea the former if done prob.

I know it saved me twice (one of them was as scum thou, But I do it as scum if I know there are not many players than can read throu me there)

but I dont do it often and its like yea it wont help most of the time

[Sakura Hana]

If it's saved you as scum then i'm pretty sure that proves Thor's point.

[ZZZX]

If it's saved you as scum then i'm pretty sure that proves Thor's point.

Well But still that doesnt mean I shouldnt self vote if it will save me no matter what allignment I am playing

My playing style is basically play a game to win it with any means as long as its within legality (and morality) limits

[Sakura Hana]

(and morality)

So you find it within morality to self-vote as scum to make ppl go "OMG LOOK AT THAT FRUSTRATION HE'S TOTES TOWN!" to win?

[Sakura Hana]

In fact why ppl even need to depend on self-votes to be town read as either alignment to begin with, I know I used to do it, but it's thanks to Thor that I dropped it, and it's made me feel better about myself, and it doesnt poison future VCAs and whatnot.

[ZZZX]

poisoning future VCAs as scum is a win , As town it prob wont affect it

not getting lynched as a town/scum is a win


I find it in moral to lie. Faking frustration is also a good thing (I sux at it mostly thou)


Non moral ways include rage quiting replacing/trust tell (now not in the legal section either)

well I try not to do it but if I noticed it will save me I would prob do it)

[SleepyKrew]

(and morality)

So you find it within morality to self-vote as scum to make ppl go "OMG LOOK AT THAT FRUSTRATION HE'S TOTES TOWN!" to win?

There's nothing immoral about that.
I agree that it's

bad

, but it's bad because it's not something people should be townread for.

[quadz08]

But I suppose your argument is 'people who are often mislynched find the tool of self voting useful to oppose their mislynch'?

It's less "must save self, better self-vote" and more "I think my lynch will be objectively beneficial to the town." No, it's not lynching scum, but that's not the only way for a lynch to be useful.

[Thor665]

Basically its a day one wagon and people are scum reading you for Smurfy reasons

so yea the former if done prob.

I have literally been in that situation.
I fought the wagon hard.
Multiple scum voted to help push it through.
Via later wagon analysis multiple scum were caught because people realized how bad the wagon had been.

I felt okay with how my play had gone, and don't think a self vote would have really made things "better" for my wincon.

It's less "must save self, better self-vote" and more "I think my lynch will be objectively beneficial to the town." No, it's not lynching scum, but that's not the only way for a lynch to be useful.

I find this a slightly funny argument in juxtaposition with ZZZX's issue.

If your lynch is objectively beneficial for town - I see no reason why town can't manage your lynch without you self-voting.
If it takes your self-vote for said lynch, than maybe the lynch isn't as obvious and beneficial as you're telling yourself, yeah?

I've been in a situation where, via PR interactions, my lynch was basically called for. I pointed out the other player that was also suspect, made a case on him, and via talking eventually got town to lynch him first rather than me. He was the last scum.
In a general sense - if I had been mislynched that other player would have been lynched correctly next via PoE - so my lynch would have assured scum loss. But that doesn't mean I'm a good lynch. I'm simply an acceptable lynch. A scum is a good lynch.

[Marquis]

"If you're really fine with being lynched, why not help us by selfvoting?"
I swear I've heard that before somewhere.

[quadz08]

If your lynch is objectively beneficial for town - I see no reason why town can't manage your lynch without you self-voting.
If it takes your self-vote for said lynch, than maybe the lynch isn't as obvious and beneficial as you're telling yourself, yeah?

This is fair.

[TierShift]

It's assuming town always do things that are objectively beneficial to them.

That's wrong.

[Thor665]

It's not actually, it's assuming that the presented comprehension of the game state is shared by a rough majority of the players (arguably less than majority of the town players, as some scum will likely toss in a vote as well)

I've seen town poorly read who is or is not lynchable a lot of times.

[Sakura Hana]

It's assuming town always do things that are objectively beneficial to them.

That's wrong.

I think you're missing the point of this thread.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Self-hammering so you can make a point that town will hopefully read in the hammer post?

I considered doing it and basically told everyone I'd do it...

and when it came to it screw that self-hammering is bad.

[Shadowmod]

I feel like you're ignoring the common problem of excess amounts of pages dragging on and players growing more apathetic as what looks like a guaranteed lynch is dragging along
I want to move the game forward
If the game, specifically my townreads, are going to be hung up on the topic of me being scum for long enough and intensely enough that it both detracts from all other conversation and reaches the point that my lynch is inevitable/people are starting to not listen at all to my defense and confbiasing, self voting as a sign of giving in and to help achieve my lynch more quickly is something I am fine with doing

I have never been in a situation where I was being lynched and this was the case.
I can also say that I, more often than chance dictates, have multiple scum voting me when I am mislynched as town.
I tend to kick and fight the whole way.

Isn't that a better plan?
Even if there is lethargy, then you ought to be able to expedite it without self-voting.
I'll agree people town read self-votes, but I find that pretty poisonous on multiple fronts.

Listen to the mighty Thor.
And seriously, even if you don't get a scum read out of a self-vote, you should take it as an opportunity to focus on that player and reassess your read on that player, anyway! And not only for the benefit of future site meta.

[Zachrulez]

If you're a self voter or someone who would be willing to self vote out of frustration, you might want to consider that mafia may not be the game for you after all.

[reinoe]

If you're a self voter or someone who would be willing to self vote out of frustration, you might want to consider that mafia may not be the game for you after all.

What if I'm a jester? What if I'm roleplaying a jester?

[Thor665]

If you're a jester than you probably want to consider blacklisting the mod.
If you're roleplaying a jester then the other players should blacklist you.

[Sakura Hana]

Speaking of self-votes:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6213362
This is what should happen after any self-vote tbh

[Psyche]

flailing isnt a scumtell you bastards

[reinoe]

Self-voting when you know it's Lylo...

y/n?

[Faraday]

seems a good time to try earn town cred w/ a self vote, yeah

[Thor665]

Self-voting when you know it's Lylo...

y/n?

If you're scum? Sure.