Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[farside22]

My scum suspect is alive. Who do you think is suspicious? Why everyone?

Starting to time warp through things now, sorry to all about the inactivity.

Not sure about who I'm suspicious of at the moment as I'm really out of tune with this game. Why everyone? I only know my role, why should I trust anyone?

So your basically going trust no one and do nothing here?
I get being behind, out of touch....but this shit doesn't help.
Skelda was suspicious of you, you've been MIA nearly all of day 2 and you can't be asked to provide something more? Your play is no better the bel.

Amy: thoughts on ape here.

[Riddleton]

Yes, of course I have read through the game. The main thing that caught my attention through my notes was Beli's behaviour. At the moment, I currently think the scumteam consists of Beli + CKD + someone else. I talked about Beli first as he's my top scumread.

Is there anything else you want me to comment/talk about in particular?

[farside22]

Yes, of course I have read through the game. The main thing that caught my attention through my notes was Beli's behaviour. At the moment, I currently think the scumteam consists of Beli + CKD + someone else. I talked about Beli first as he's my top scumread.

Is there anything else you want me to comment/talk about in particular?

Why is CKD a scum read?
The case he present was good and if chaos was town I can't imagine scum CKD pushing a case n someone else.

[Baezu]

Vote Count 2.04

Farside22: (1) NakedJogger
Belisarius: (4) Amy Farrah Fowler, acryon, scrambles, Riddleton
Curiouskarmadog : (1) Belisarius
Chaoslord54: (2) Farside22, Curiouskarmadog

Not Voting: Snugglyduckling, RoyalApe, Chaoslord54, TobyLoby

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-09-26 16:55:00)

Mod Notes:
Looking for replacement for snugglyduckling

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

The game's at a point where the main activity is waiting for wagons to get big.

so you are a reactive player then?

are you following the game closely?

What do you mean by a 'reactive player'?

And... I guess I'm following the game closely. I assume everyone else is too...

so if the game is at that point...AND you have nothing to add. do you have anything to ask? do you feel like your playstyle is to stir the pot and see what happens or sit back and let others do the work. What type of play is the most pro-town in your view?

how many games of mafia/werewolf have you ever played?

I usually ask something if I feel it's worth asking. I don't like to ask for the sake of it. Ditto with stirring the pot. If I find a worthwhile and productive opportunity then I'll go for it. If it's something that's not open-ended and will simply piss people off then I tend not to. I feel like calling the other option sitting back and letting others do the work isn't the best way of going about that. Mafia is generally a game involving teamwork. If someone else finds something and wishes to contribute and gives us more to work with then brilliant. And later on if I find something based on recent events then I'll contribute. And just like that town can progress. So as long as someone isn't ONLY sitting back and occasionally chipping in with fluff and only fluff, I think it's fair to say that.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

Whoops, forgot to answer the second question. I haven't PLAYED much. Couple of real life games, and a bit of EpicMafia (which doesn't really count as

mafia

). I've quickly skimmed a little bit of theory and a few games that piqued my interest, but haven't ever

studied

the game much.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

Have you played mafia before,

Amy

? You don't strike me as a newbie player.

As stated in my previous post, I haven't played much. I decided to just jump into this and see how things go. I like to think I have a pretty decent mindset for this sort of thing, so maybe that helped.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

Amy: thoughts on ape here.

Hmm. Late start but contributed a lot as he came in, a good portion of that being original observations, so townpoints for that. He appeared to be picking out townreads instead of merely talking, so that's nice. A few statements that provoked some discussion related to them, but I don't think I have any more to contribute to those than what has already been said. There was one particular post and his defences against it that I wasn't a fan of. Recently there's been less activity from him but what there has been wasn't fluff for the most part so I'm fine with that. His most recent post is interesting. No read on it either way.

[FakedBlogger]

Ok so farside has been inquiring a lot about a lot of people, which should amount to her catching scum. If she doesn't we can still lynch her in lylo.

VOTE: Royal Ape

Can't say the same for his primate highness. I will switch to Belisarius or anyone else for that matter. I need to reread this thread.

[acryon]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

[farside22]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

I started thinking about this today.
I wanted to check his meta and see how he behaves in situations like this. There had been some meta talk about his play.

[acryon]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

I started thinking about this today.
I wanted to check his meta and see how he behaves in situations like this. There had been some meta talk about his play.

Yeah, and I mean WIFOM and self-meta aren't exactly good ways to convince people.

[farside22]

Okay so my read on bel was do to ongoing game.
Researching his games as town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

More active and talking about his reads.
Scum game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

He did replace in the game and gave reads when being lynched.


I noticed looking through bel's games he is either killed at night or kept around till end game.
Mostly this was to see how he behaved when pushed during a lynch.

I know lately he has been more quiet playing games, but I still feel there would be something coming from town bel that would be talking/pushing who he thinks is scum.

I personally been trying to keep my head out of meta for reasons like this, it didn't tell me anything and people are playing closer to there meta or playing like shit.

I think bel is at l-2, I noted he hammered as scum last game so I'm going to see if there is any other thoughts or views in the game before any other votes are placed on bel in case he is scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

"Generally"...based on what? it all depends on the player, have you meta-ed Bel to see if this is true for him or you just trying to justify bullshit?

I have seen players (scum or not) defend themselves and then be attacked for being too defensive....or only thinking that someone is scum BECUASE they are being attacked...or whatever.

I have also seen players (scum or not) not give a shit either way.

more likely than not bel is a fucking vanilla town who doesnt give a shit about this game. I hate players like that.. HATE. They only play when they have a PR or a scum role. If they get anything else they phone it in. I know I will eat these words if he actually flips scum...but I am almost positive he is a TI or just a townie who doesnt really care either way.


what I think is really interesting, is this statement from you. IF I go back and look at your other games and see THIS (players who are scum dont defend themselves) IS INDEED NOT THE CASE. what does that say about you? Can you provide me a finished game when you saw this to be the case and you developed the "generally" basis? Save me some time. When I look at your completed past games...will I see that this is a true OR false statement?

[acryon]

Okay so my read on bel was do to ongoing game.
Researching his games as town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

More active and talking about his reads.
Scum game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

He did replace in the game and gave reads when being lynched.


I noticed looking through bel's games he is either killed at night or kept around till end game.
Mostly this was to see how he behaved when pushed during a lynch.

I know lately he has been more quiet playing games, but I still feel there would be something coming from town bel that would be talking/pushing who he thinks is scum.

I personally been trying to keep my head out of meta for reasons like this, it didn't tell me anything and people are playing closer to there meta or playing like shit.

I think bel is at l-2, I noted he hammered as scum last game so I'm going to see if there is any other thoughts or views in the game before any other votes are placed on bel in case he is scum.

I personally almost never look into meta. If players are good, then the only indication that they are scum will be small details contained within the current game. I would much rather spend my time trying to find that then trying to look into their meta, especially since meta analysis can easily give you false-positives or negatives if the player is good.

[acryon]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

"Generally"...based on what? it all depends on the player, have you meta-ed Bel to see if this is true for him or you just trying to justify bullshit?

I have seen players (scum or not) defend themselves and then be attacked for being too defensive....or only thinking that someone is scum BECUASE they are being attacked...or whatever.

I have also seen players (scum or not) not give a shit either way.

more likely than not bel is a fucking vanilla town who doesnt give a shit about this game. I hate players like that.. HATE. They only play when they have a PR or a scum role. If they get anything else they phone it in. I know I will eat these words if he actually flips scum...but I am almost positive he is a TI or just a townie who doesnt really care either way.


what I think is really interesting, is this statement from you. IF I go back and look at your other games and see THIS (players who are scum dont defend themselves) IS INDEED NOT THE CASE. what does that say about you? Can you provide me a finished game when you saw this to be the case and you developed the "generally" basis? Save me some time. When I look at your completed past games...will I see that this is a true OR false statement?

Generally as in, generally towies want the town to lynch scum instead of town. AKA the point of the game... This is the stupidest question you have asked.

[acryon]

See my comments about meta before you waste your time looking into mine.

[curiouskarmadog]

Generally as in, generally towies want the town to lynch scum instead of town. AKA the point of the game... This is the stupidest question you have asked.

you are completely ignoring my point and ignored a direct question.

HAVE YOU BEEN A IN GAME WHERE A TOWN DID NOT REALLY DEFEND THEMSELVES? FOR WHATEVER REASON...BUT USUALLY THEY JUST DIDNT CARE?

also FYI "generally" scum dont want to be lynched either, AKA the fucking "point of the game"

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

So you "get it" if he is scum?

No way.

unvote vote acryon

you are trying to justify your vote with BS...

there is no way you believe this....X must be scum because he isnt defending himself and town doesnt play that way...generally. Calling BS.

[curiouskarmadog]

god dammit.

unvote vote Chaos

(again)

this lynch needs to happen today....Acryon you are also scummy as hell. But the Dryfit kill is just pointing Chaos. And everyone seems to be ignoring this.

This Bel wagon is a bad wagon...it is fueled by bullshit.

[acryon]

Generally as in, generally towies want the town to lynch scum instead of town. AKA the point of the game... This is the stupidest question you have asked.

you are completely ignoring my point and ignored a direct question.

HAVE YOU BEEN A IN GAME WHERE A TOWN DID NOT REALLY DEFEND THEMSELVES? FOR WHATEVER REASON...BUT USUALLY THEY JUST DIDNT CARE?

also FYI "generally" scum dont want to be lynched either, AKA the fucking "point of the game"

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

So you "get it" if he is scum?

No way.

unvote vote acryon

you are trying to justify your vote with BS...

there is no way you believe this....X must be scum because he isnt defending himself and town doesnt play that way...generally. Calling BS.

That is not what I am saying it all. Well done trying to create the story you have in your head. Admittedly I didn't answer well because I thought it was a stupid question. But everything is in context. Absolutes have no place in this game, so stop trying to treat everything being said as an absolute. In the type of situation we are in right now, with the type of player Beli seems to be, with the level of exeprience he has, generally they would at least try to avoid the town mislynching. This could be defending himself, or better yet, it could be talking about who is actually scum and give some decent reasons for why that might be.

And yes, it would make more sense to me if he is scum, because in my experience, scum are much more likely to troll in response to wagons than town.

[curiouskarmadog]

In the type of situation we are in right now, with the type of player Beli seems to be, with the level of exeprience he has, generally they would at least try to avoid the town mislynching. This could be defending himself, or better yet, it could be talking about who is actually scum and give some decent reasons for why that might be.

And yes, it would make more sense to me if he is scum, because in my experience, scum are much more likely to troll in response to wagons than town.

this is based on what? what have you based this theory on? AGAIN, have you been in a game where a town, did not defend themselves...most likely because they did not give a shit.

have you been in a game where scum, have not defended themselves and "trolled"?

if the game is current, that is fine, dont post it...I will check...because I AM a firm believer of meta.

I am calling your justification of you Bel vote bullshit. please please please show me I am wrong. and dont avoid the questions AGAIN.

[curiouskarmadog]

acryon..please note: i am pretty sure you are not answering my direct question because you know I have caught you in a lie.

please show me that you have indeed based this justification of your Bel vote on something.

[acryon]

In the type of situation we are in right now, with the type of player Beli seems to be, with the level of exeprience he has, generally they would at least try to avoid the town mislynching. This could be defending himself, or better yet, it could be talking about who is actually scum and give some decent reasons for why that might be.

And yes, it would make more sense to me if he is scum, because in my experience, scum are much more likely to troll in response to wagons than town.

this is based on what? what have you based this theory on? AGAIN, have you been in a game where a town, did not defend themselves...most likely because they did not give a shit.

have you been in a game where scum, have not defended themselves and "trolled"?

if the game is current, that is fine, dont post it...I will check...because I AM a firm believer of meta.

I am calling your justification of you Bel vote bullshit. please please please show me I am wrong. and dont avoid the questions AGAIN.

95% of my mafia has been offline, so you aren't going to find anything in the 1 finished game I have played on this site. Apparently you require that I spell it out for you explicitly, so here it is: In games that I have played that felt similar to this one with players that are similar to Beli, they would normally choose to convince town that there is someone else that needs to be lynched. Even in the situations where players did seem to not care, it would happen closer to lynch, not at L-3. Is this true 100% of the time? No. As I said, nothing is absolute, and everyone is working off of hunches and actions based on the game itself and personal experience. There will be bias and there will be flaws, but I didn't say you had to use it as a reason to think Beli was scum. It just makes me feel more like it based on my experiences.

[acryon]

acryon..please note: i am pretty sure you are not answering my direct question because you know I have caught you in a lie.

please show me that you have indeed based this justification of your Bel vote on something.

Please note: You could not be more wrong.

[farside22]

Generally, when a townie has a wagon going on them, they will try to do something to move it away from the mislynch. Beli is doing nothing. Everything seems to be trolling. If he's town, I really don't get it.

"Generally"...based on what? it all depends on the player, have you meta-ed Bel to see if this is true for him or you just trying to justify bullshit?

I have seen players (scum or not) defend themselves and then be attacked for being too defensive....or only thinking that someone is scum BECUASE they are being attacked...or whatever.

I have also seen players (scum or not) not give a shit either way.

more likely than not bel is a fucking vanilla town who doesnt give a shit about this game. I hate players like that.. HATE. They only play when they have a PR or a scum role. If they get anything else they phone it in. I know I will eat these words if he actually flips scum...but I am almost positive he is a TI or just a townie who doesnt really care either way.


what I think is really interesting, is this statement from you. IF I go back and look at your other games and see THIS (players who are scum dont defend themselves) IS INDEED NOT THE CASE. what does that say about you? Can you provide me a finished game when you saw this to be the case and you developed the "generally" basis? Save me some time. When I look at your completed past games...will I see that this is a true OR false statement?

CKD: I know this is towards acryon but recently I lynched 2 players that did shit all and flipped scum and 1 was boarded town. A 4th time is ongoing but let's say more often scum then town, this is why I looked at bel to see what he does.
I think his vote and reasoning about you is shit, his effort to play is shit.
The issue I have is I can list chaos under the same fucking category as bel and I don't get why bel reads scummier then chaos.