Open 572: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem - Game Over

[Fink]

@Acyron

Hey Acyron! You want a reason to vote someone besides Thor? If Thor were scum, do you think he'd let his partner be this useless (whoever they are)?

I'm not saying I'd never vote Thor on some future day, given some more evidence of something clever happenning. But if Thor is scum, it seems like his partner is dead weight. And he has daychat to yell at them

constantly

.

[Thor665]

Careful, you almost stated an opinion there.

Haha, I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. Oh, what would you have done without me in the game, Thor? And for the record, it was an opinion: It's a null tell. I interpret it that you're seeing it as a town tell? I do not.

I consider it an important tell considering the presented case on how theoryscum Phil is being said to play - if he is playing that way then the point is a noted town tell as it goes against the theoryscum concept.

@Fink -

[Thor665]

I'm not saying I'd never vote Thor on some future day, given some more evidence of something clever happenning. But if Thor is scum, it seems like his partner is dead weight. And he has daychat to yell at them constantly.

The face for this one is though.
Or maybe

The earlier face was for your blithe okayness with the Phil wagon.

[Fink]

Acyron seems absolutely locked onto you, not really entertaining other options. No it isn't much of a defense of you, honestly you're not that strong of a town read for me, but I think it's a good reason not to vote for you at the moment. That, and your wagon not going anywhere.

My point on Phil isn't that he's jumping at every oppurtunity; it's that he's taking oppurtunities for very little reason, trying to provide minimal ties from himself to his votes. At the same time, I think he's being very cautious (overly so) and not wanting to change his mind or his vote too much. I don't see an inconsistency there.

[Fink]

It's a joke and a real defense in one!

[Thor665]

My point on Phil isn't that he's jumping at every oppurtunity; it's that he's taking oppurtunities for very little reason, trying to provide minimal ties from himself to his votes. At the same time, I think he's being very cautious (overly so) and not wanting to change his mind or his vote too much. I don't see an inconsistency there.

Maybe, but he was literally in a situation where he was in a three way tie that included himself, and was offered and provided the perfect excuse to put a 'not Phil' wagon into a strong lead without having to accept any blame.

Why would he do that if scum considering your theory of why he is scum?

[Not_Mafia]

DCLXVI replaces Bins.

[Fink]

My point on Phil isn't that he's jumping at every oppurtunity; it's that he's taking oppurtunities for very little reason, trying to provide minimal ties from himself to his votes. At the same time, I think he's being very cautious (overly so) and not wanting to change his mind or his vote too much. I don't see an inconsistency there.

Maybe, but he was literally in a situation where he was in a three way tie that included himself, and was offered and provided the perfect excuse to put a 'not Phil' wagon into a strong lead without having to accept any blame.

Why would he do that if scum considering your theory of why he is scum?

Again, I think he'd do that because he's worried about looking inconsistent. And his comment telling you that he could be convinced to vote Dys (as if you're the one doing the convincing) seems out of touch with your more recent posting, so town or scum I read that as him thinking you're still up for voting Dys.

Which means, in his mind, it's 2 on Blair (you and me), 3 on him (Blair, Dys, and me), 2 on Dys (you and Shaddowez) and 2 on me (him and Droog, who recently said he needed to catch up and reconsider his reads, which could be implying a change of vote.) Give that that puts him as the leading wagon, and he's feeling presure to move his vote, it would be a tie between Blair and Dys. He's been setting up voting for Dys for quite a while, he's worried about looking inconsistent, and if he thinks you are potentially on board with a Dys lynch (which he seems to have believed when he posted that), it makes perfect sense to vote Dys.

[Fink]

Also, isn't it suspicious (under this same theory) that he seems to be holding off on voting until he sees what Droog is going to do? Like he wants to vote Dys, but he's not committing to it until he seems Droog either abandon his vote for me or double down on it with more of a case. Phil isn't

making

such case, but he's not unvoting for me yet, as if he doesn't want to have to look convinced to move his vote

back

to me, should I become a thing, he's waiting to take his vote off to see what Droog does.

[Phillammon]

Unless I've misinterpreted (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), it was prettymuch entirely #560 (and by extension #526)- I've already mentioned that I found Blair's defences more townish than scummish, even with the suspect reasoning in #526. I'm unconvinced that pointing this out is enough to take someone off my hitlist, based on the points I've already made.

[DCLXVI]

Hello, have not read the thread yet, will do so at some as of now unknown point in the future.

Until then...

unvote

[DCLXVI]

Thoughts as I read through this.

NOTE! I just got through page 16.

1. Early game Thor is town for attacks on Cheetory. Yes I also am thinking that he is wrong about Cheetory, but his approach to scum hunting seems genuine in the way he is looking for illogical play/logical fallacies/inconsistency or whatever you want to call it.


2. Exactly what I was thinking about Cheetory. Blair can be town as well.

I don't like the logic, but I can believe that Cheetory meant it when he said it - and I do like that.

3. QFT:

I didn't understand the leap from "you seem to be contradicting yourself in the same paragraph" to "You are essentially claiming scum" and I still don't.

4. I don't care what your role is. You are an ass. And an idiot.

*Picks up the axe and chops off the head*
VOTE: Cheetory
Majority reached, man I love waking up.

5. Bad idea. Dumb does not equal scum. Though that would make the game a lot easier.

VOTE: wgeurts

this one's on principle

6. QFT:

For the love of god, the newbie queue exists for a reason...

7. Thor vs. Blair is TvT or I'm scum... I'm at page 10 now and I think I'm just going to start skimming past their posts. Blair is right, but the whole argument is very annoying.

and write after I see that droog said exactly what needed to be said for the most part.

thor

this is a textbook semantic wall argument
no one will decipher it all
classic town v. town tactics

which only makes me wonder if you're both scum. probably not.

am doing an iso of blair to elaborate on before

p-edit

this discussion is getting lamer by the post

8. Thor speaks the truth

I would wager fair odds that at least one lurker is scum, that's usually a safe bet and Johnny wasn't particularly lurky, so yeah.

9. Agreed

I don't think she's trying to lynch me, and never meant to imply as such.

I do think she's trying to present herself as scumhunting more the instant pressure was applied to her. Prior to my pressure it was all "Lulz :3" after my pressure suddenly she's looking at past games and analyzing things.
It feels faked to me. I think if she was town and thought she was doing fine before she would keep doing the same, and if she was town who thought she was doing poorly before would have a more wide range scumhunting work as she tried to get reads on multiple people. Instead she talks about doing all this intense work, but only about one player. That doesn't read wonky to you?

I really don't care to give a whole reads list at the moment. I'll give impressions as I get them for now, forcing myself to have thoughts on every player in a 27 page game too quickly isn't going to be helpful or accurate I think.

What I think about scum hunting:

I think that what people are intending to do is more important they what they are actually doing. Mafia and town can say the same things, it's what they are trying to accomplish that matters. And that is what is also harder to figure out.

Why the above statement matters:

That really is the difference between Thor and Blair, they are approaching the game with completely different approaches to scum hunting which are clashing.

Thor is looking for consistency/inconsistency; blair is trying to determine the motives of what players are doing (at least, that's what I've gather from what i've seen so far.

I prefer the latter method of scum hunting, but it is also clear to me that thor seems to be genuinely employing the former. They are both town, and if this shit between them is still ongoing by the time I get to page 25 I'm going to be rather pissed.

To be continued...

[droog]

quick aside

that was the best entrance all game

[Thor665]

Quick follow up - he gonna be *so* pissed.

Also his only competition was Fink, but, yeah, I'll agree it was better than Fink's.

[DCLXVI]

Quick follow up - he gonna be *so* pissed.

... I've got a lot to look forward to this evening I guess.

[Thor665]

Well at first you think I'm going to lynch Dyx, then I play with your emotions.
Then you find out it's a wedding, Westeros style.

[DCLXVI]

MINE!

Can't believe I didn't notice this at first.

@Thor, don't spoil anything

[DCLXVI]

@mod,

with the exception of myself, thor and droog... no one has posted in the last 24 hours... Can we get a mass prod? Thanks.

[Thor665]

Let's just declare ourselves obv. town and chain lynch everyone else. If the game continues we'll move on from there

[Not_Mafia]

@mod,

with the exception of myself, thor and droog... no one has posted in the last 24 hours... Can we get a mass prod? Thanks.

Only Acryon is in prod range and he is V/LA, plus it is the weekend. I will send everyone who hasn't posted by time I wake up (~ 8-10 hours from now) an unofficial prod. Thanks.

[Not_Mafia]

VC 3.09

Blair (1)-

Thor665

Phillammon (3)-

Blair, Dyslexicon, Fink

(L-2)

Shaddowez (0)-

Thor665 (1)-

acryon

droog (0)-

Fink (2)-

Pillammon, droog

acryon (0)-

Dyslexicon (1)-

Shaddowez

DCLXVI (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

DCLXVI

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-10-11 20:00:00)

- Oct 11th 19:00 GMT

[Fink]

@mod,

with the exception of myself, thor and droog... no one has posted in the last 24 hours... Can we get a mass prod? Thanks.

I've been kind of waiting for you to finish catching up and hear your thoughts and/or some input from the others. I've been worried Thor and I were more-or-less dominating the thread and I want to pull some actual reactions from the others rather than letting this just move on uncommented upon and forgotten because it's 4 pages in the past or something.

ANd I think the prod deadline is 48 hours, which is only being violated by V/LA acryon right now.

[Phillammon]

I'm waiting on DCLXVI too, right now. I have to concur, that's one helluvan entrance, as they go.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm waiting on DCLXVI too, right now. I have to concur, that's one helluvan entrance, as they go.

How about responding to 636 in the meantime?

[Dyslexicon]

I was also mainly waiting for people other than Thor/Fink and/or for DCL to catch up.

Also: Kitty!