Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[acryon]

Sorry for the massive wall, but there has been a clear pattern in her play that needs to be pointed out. Let's also think for a second about what kind of person calls people town for no reason.

[ChannelDelibird]

I haven't read the longer posts on this page thoroughly yet but I'm now reasonably sure that acryon is my preferred lynch.

PEDIT: Increasingly sure.

[acryon]

I haven't read the longer posts on this page thoroughly yet but I'm now reasonably sure that acryon is my preferred lynch.

PEDIT: Increasingly sure.

This strikes me as very odd. You certainly didn't have time to actually read the post I made, but somehow just that I made it increases your confidence of me being the best lynch. This pings.

[scrambles]

@scrambles:

I didn't think there was anything to respond to.
You've made your point, I think it's wrong, but what is there to argue?
Was there something specifically you wanted me to comment on?

You said:

Ape- because of his play eary on in the game. Just felt like a lot of non-participation. Though, Green Crayon is looking a lot better. I liked his direction with attacking me, which I felt was a pretty good case (

even though it's wrong

). It probably took a lot of effort.

Most of it is wifom

, but I don't see any real scum motivation behind it.

He's trying to figure me out, and what my motivations are.

He hasn't asked me any direct questions, which I thought was weird, but I could see a town getting fed up with my non-participation and

just going through my posts for any crumbs he can find

.

There's plenty you could actually follow up with in here, as bolded:
- Why am I wrong?
- Where's the WIFOM? Is that really your entire defense: "yeah, I could have done all of this as scum, but I could also have done all of this as town"?
- Apparently I have your motivations incorrect. What were your motivations for the particularly scummy actions I pointed out?
- So why aren't these "crumbs" I found correct?

-You're wrong because you are lol.
-It's not a bad analysis, I like the effort and the direction you're going, but ultimately it's just not true. what is there to argue about? Are you trying to start an argument with me, -because it's going to be pointless "no I did x because y" and that'll take dozens of posts and lead noweher.
-You want me to go through one by one?
-Because I'm not scum

[ChannelDelibird]

I haven't read the longer posts on this page thoroughly yet but I'm now reasonably sure that acryon is my preferred lynch.

PEDIT: Increasingly sure.

This strikes me as very odd. You certainly didn't have time to actually read the post I made, but somehow just that I made it increases your confidence of me being the best lynch. This pings.

I read the short post after it in preview, not the long one in full (though I scanned a couple of the points made therein). My post was one which I decided to make on my walk home about an hour ago; you just happened to be posting in the meantime.

[acryon]

I haven't read the longer posts on this page thoroughly yet but I'm now reasonably sure that acryon is my preferred lynch.

PEDIT: Increasingly sure.

This strikes me as very odd. You certainly didn't have time to actually read the post I made, but somehow just that I made it increases your confidence of me being the best lynch. This pings.

I read the short post after it in preview, not the long one in full (though I scanned a couple of the points made therein). My post was one which I decided to make on my walk home about an hour ago; you just happened to be posting in the meantime.

Fair enough. I will be interested to hear what you have to say both about your confidence in a lynch on me, as well as what you think of the case on Titus. Specifics would be helpful, especially for the latter.

[scrambles]

Kudos to both Beli and one of CDB's posts for instantly making everyone vote for me. I'm not even going to bother right now because clearly I'm getting lynched. Yes I'm giving up, yes it's bad, but I completely lose it when people vote me when I'm town. WIFOM alert, but as scum I tend to actually play to my wincon in these situations and try to get the wagon off me.

Examples, please!

I'd also like to point out that it seems very odd that someone would "completely lose it" when people vote them as town. Multiple townies are usually mislynched every game. Does it suck? Yes, but it happens every game. It seems odd to have such a reaction to something that happens

all the time

.

Probably scum. I lose it frequently as town is I am the mislynch. My losing it is usually relative to the amount of confidence I have in my team nailing the other scum.

Was this a serious post, or what?

[Riddleton]

Acryon, your case against Titus isn't valid. It's just complaints you have against his playstyle (ie. VCA)

[Riddleton]

*her playstle. Sorry, Titus. :/

[curiouskarmadog]

Amy did you ever answer these questions and I miss it? If you did just give the post number.

And last but not least, I'm happy with my 'elaborate' triple scumread. It works, and I connected the dots that way, and we have one scum down.
You're scum #2, I know that much.
CKD has been slowly reducing in scumminess, although I'm not happy with that. I think I'm less inclined to scumread people who contribute a lot of non-fluff. But I'm still aware of the associative tell (or at least that's kind of how I interpreted it) and with Beli flipping scum, I'm going to point out that that's still out there.

(consider this comment a reverse WIFOM post)Okay going to help you out there a little bit. As Scum, I also post a lot of “non-fluff”, if you meta my scum games, you will see that I will go after a scum buddy mightily if I feel like they might be coming off scummy to the town. So I know you are saying I am townish for non-fluff posting, but I am telling you I do that as scum too. Now that I am telling you this, what are your thoughts on me now? Still less inclined to scumread me?

CKD = scum then Beli = scum (defence of Beli, deflected wagon)
Beli = scum then Chaos = scum (protectiveness, made up an imaginary wagon earlier in the game), a little more so than CKD (as mentioned above)
Chaos = scum then Beli = Scum (defence, as mentioned above)

I guess I am confused how I got downgraded in my scumminess between 588 and 948. I mean with Bel flipping scum, given your rationale I should have been MORE scummy right?

I am asking this, because I am trying to understand your reasoning for scumreads (for everyone/or in general/for CD) in this game.

where does Amy indicate she knows alignments? I looked at that post...it isnt anything more than any one else did. Why that whole day was full of people saying such and such looks town.

I'm not really sure how to put it more clearly than I did in the post you quoted. The post that Amy townread did not stick out to me at all when I first read it and I didn't see why anybody would feel happy to draw any kind of alignment-related conclusions from it.

Think about it like this: When I'm scum, I always feel pressure to figure out who I'm going to target for a mislynch. It's hard for me to find town-looking angles of attack on players I know to be town because I always know that their posts are coming from a town mindset. It leaves me likely to townread most of the town apart from one or two mislynch targets and my own buddies. It's that perspective that I see as the most likely explanation for Amy suddenly townreading Snuggly for that post, because Amy doesn't explain why she thinks the post is more likely to come from town so I have no insight into her thought process other than the strange conclusion.

I understand the thought process (I guess) because that was partially why I thought Skelda was scum Day 1. We see how that turned out. How is what Amy did any different than that?

Being high and mighty about a scumlynch isn't scummy in a vacuum; my argument is that, given how little Amy seemed to actually push a Bel wagon, it felt unearned from her, like someone who would know that they should expect to gain some towncred when Bel eventually dies because they already know that Bel is scum.

what did she push Day 2? nothing. she didnt post much. soooooo...as scum, she could have plopped that vote anywhere and not been around much to talk. I would have been a super easy target since I pushed so hard for a town lynch day 1.

i am not buying this Amy case and/or not buying that YOU are buying this amy case.

CKD has never actually mentioned any thoughts or reads to back-up why he things Beli is town.

Are you stating this as fact?...or have you only been skimming?

Here are the links to the posts I have quoted for those who would rather me do that than use CTRL+F

Post #272
Post #450
Post #549
Post #563
Post #578
Post #687
Post #690
Post #830

You haven’t been skimming…sooooo. When saying the above quoted post. Why did you not mention...

when I read Bel's previous games....if he is scum there is a lot more noise almost always.

when he has been vanilla town, it wasnt a lot until end game (and then still little). i get the impression if he doesnt have an interesting role or is scum, he doesnt really care about the game, it is more of an obligation...which I think it is bullsthi given that he has been a mod of a ton a games (that I had to sift through trying to find games that he was an actual player).

.

more likely than not bel is a fucking vanilla town who doesnt give a shit about this game. I hate players like that.. HATE. They only play when they have a PR or a scum role. If they get anything else they phone it in. I know I will eat these words if he actually flips scum...but I am almost positive he is a TI or just a townie who doesnt really care either way.

Now you clearly read my quotes, why did you leave out the above quotes when mentioning "I never explained my reads".

--

also

vote ChannelDelibird

just not buying that Amy case. CD is a veteran of this game and I seriously doubt he felt like that was a good case to push Day 3.

[ChannelDelibird]

CKD, you're not reading my case properly. A huge part of my point was exactly that Amy was barely pushing the Belisarius case apart from here, which made the views claimed in that post incongruous with what I could read elsewhere.

[curiouskarmadog]

I also would join a Farside wagon too (sorry dear, people who say you and CD are scum keep dying)

[ChannelDelibird]

I also would join a Farside wagon too (sorry dear, people who say you and CD are scum keep dying)

You do realise that one of the people who said farside was scum was Belisarius, right? Do you think that his early push on farside, which was all about latching onto a wording issue as a quasi-policy lynch, is the sort of thing that buddies do? I absolutely don't. That's the sort of thing I try to push on a townie as scum in order to get a relatively blameless mislynch ("well, we all agreed the wording was definitely wrong...").

[Riddleton]

CKD, you missed this:

He has made a few off-hand quips now and then,

such as

in #690 where he comments about 'the VC not adding up', and his comment in #450 where he comments on Beli's speech, but it is nothing substantial.

Such as, ie. I mentioned only a few examples to avoid the post becoming wall-like. The quotes you cherry-picked illustrate the same point. They're very much surface-reads and contrast with the reads you've given out on other people.

[Titus]

@Scrambles, I come with two modes. Serious and more serious.

@Acryon, I gave specifics. Scrambles is lying about being a noob and Channel is scumhunting despite his (mistaken) belief he has caught Amy scum. The votes reflect Amy is town.

You and scrambles doing the circle jerk defense isn't looking too good.

Limited activity due to work

[Riddleton]

The only qualm I have with AFF is I

still

don't believe she's a newbie.

[Green Crayons]

@scrambles:

the only way for me to determine whether my scum read on you is valid is for someone to pipe up and explain why my case is wrong. The person in the best position to do so is you, however you want to do that. So far, you've got that my case is wrong simply because it is, and because WIFOM. I'm not keen in getting into an "argument" just for the sake of it, but was instead asking if you had anything else to contribute to why my read on you was wrong.

Apparently, you don't. (shrug)

[Green Crayons]

Acryon, your case against Titus isn't valid. It's just complaints you have against his playstyle (ie. VCA)

The only qualm I have with AFF is I

still

don't believe she's a newbie.

Both of these posts are solid.

[Titus]

@Green, when is the last time you've seen a townie shrug off being called a liar?

[Titus]

Acryon, your case against Titus isn't valid. It's just complaints you have against his playstyle (ie. VCA)

The only qualm I have with AFF is I

still

don't believe she's a newbie.

Both of these posts are solid.

The belief may be solid on AFF not being a noob. But usually those players slip up like scrambles.

I just ICed a game on another site where ppl did not believe it was the guy's first game.Classically educated people tend to sound less new than they are.

[Green Crayons]

I also would join a Farside wagon too (sorry dear, people who say you and CD are scum keep dying)

You do realise that one of the people who said farside was scum was Belisarius, right?

Do you think that his early push on farside, which was all about latching onto a wording issue as a quasi-policy lynch, is the sort of thing that buddies do? I absolutely don't. That's the sort of thing I try to push on a townie as scum in order to get a relatively blameless mislynch ("well, we all agreed the wording was definitely wrong...").

Counterpoint:

I still think scum bel would vote his scum buddy for town credit.

I don't think farside suspicions are unwarranted, but I don't know how much I want to vote her.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, you're not reading my case properly. A huge part of my point was exactly that Amy was barely pushing the Belisarius case apart from here, which made the views claimed in that post incongruous with what I could read elsewhere.

what case was she pushing more?

what case(s) has she really pushed all game?

Do you think she was just trying to buy town creds buy voting Bel Day 2? Why not sit back and see if another wagon came along before voting?

NJ, just voted and did say much of anything else, NJ was town.

So you really think/thought Amy is scum based "hugely" on that?

[ChannelDelibird]

That's a pretty null statement, GC.

Farside is pretty much the last person to start immediately after lynching scum!Belisarius, and I think that's reasonably obvious (particularly if CKD wants to talk about things that should be clear to people who have a lot of experience with this game).

[curiouskarmadog]

I also would join a Farside wagon too (sorry dear, people who say you and CD are scum keep dying)

You do realise that one of the people who said farside was scum was Belisarius, right? Do you think that his early push on farside, which was all about latching onto a wording issue as a quasi-policy lynch, is the sort of thing that buddies do? I absolutely don't. That's the sort of thing I try to push on a townie as scum in order to get a relatively blameless mislynch ("well, we all agreed the wording was definitely wrong...").

you talking about the day 1 vote? what does that have to do with what I just posted? actually though...now you mention this.. I need to check something....

(stayed tuned).

[Green Crayons]

@CDB:

I don't understand what you're trying to say. (Not trying to be a dick, I really just don't understand.)