Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)


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Post Post #1175 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:26 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1171, Riddleton wrote:Hm. Pretty confident on two of (scrambles, acryon, CKD) as the final scummies. I think this day has revealed a lot.

I agree, but certainly not what you think it has. I think that at-most 1 of those three are scum, and even then both of them are very low on my list.
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Post Post #1176 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:26 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1174, Riddleton wrote:"hang on while I research the names of Titus' hydrae because
I can't remember
I'm making it up"

Why would he do this? You could just look at his post history to confirm. This makes no sense.
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Post Post #1177 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:28 am

Post by scrambles »

That's not even worth replying to, acryon.
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Post Post #1178 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:29 am

Post by acryon »

I didn't think so, but I wanted to make sure it was noted by all how terrible that was.
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Post Post #1179 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:30 am

Post by Riddleton »

@Acryon: More inclined to believe it's scrambles & CKD rather than you.. but we'll see. At my second comment with Scrambles, that was mostly sarcasm. Don't take any comment of mine too seriously with strike tags.
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Post Post #1180 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:30 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

OK. This is why I'm coming around to an acryon vote. CKD, consider this as a start to answering your question about 'who are the scum who wanted an Amy wagon to succeed?' in post 1147.

---

acryon spent the first couple of days straddling the fence
hard
. Since I called him out on it, he's shown that he does have teeth. While that's a good thing if he's town, I'm feeling uneasy again. He was one of the first ones to encourage me about the Amy case and has been one of its strongest supporters since I started advocating for her lynch. So I'm worried that he's getting involved because he thinks that I wouldn't complain about him finding his conviction during a mislynch if I was the one driving that mislynch along with him. You do have to wonder where this acryon was for the first two Days now that he's much more up for the fight here. Honestly, I usually find that indecisive town stay indecisive, even when called on it.

---

I'm going back over his iso now to look at his relationship with Beli and go over more specific issues with his more recent posts:

Supports Belisarius's flimsy farside crusade in the early days before Belisarius makes himself unsupportable and then gets noncommittal about it when the farside vote "doesn't give us what we'd have wanted out of it". It's a bit awkward.

In his defence, though, this needs a little reconciling if acryon is a Belibuddy; if he voted for Skelda it probably would have sealed the mislynch earlier. And he gives the Belivote some conviction at the start of Day 2 - if this is a bus, then it's a pretty good one.

Mainly the thing that is pushing me towards a vote for acryon beyond general paranoia around his relationship to the Amy wagon is his push on Titus at the moment. Posts like this and this don't feel like posts that are seriously considering whether or not Titus is approaching this game from a town or scum mindset, they're just dismissive because of their format. The sarcasm isn't great here. It's prematurely dismissive and the way he says "do you have anything concrete to bring to the town" like he's the elected governor of the Town Relevance Commission deciding what is and what isn't admissible really rubs me up the wrong way.

And then there's this, which is just ... man, it's just ridiculously overrighteous. "What kind of person calls somebody town for no reason?" It's like it's meant to be read by a hammy Shakespearean actor. There are, like, loads of people who do that as town.

His Titus case is all about her image, cookie-cutter statements that sound worthy ('no town would ever post a read without immediately backing it up; that would be [gasp]
anti-town
!') but aren't actually applied to how actual players approach the game of mafia. CKD, if you think abandoning the Amy wagon is scummy from me, I think it's worse that acryon has found this thing to latch onto while not saying anything about the fact that he's left the Amy wagon to push it. At least I'm talking through my relationship to the Amy wagon; acryon hasn't mentioned whether or not he thinks that Titus and Amy are buddies together. He hasn't said anything about Amy's alignment during this despite the fact that Amy is one of the players whom Titus has been calling town, which is supposedly behaviour that bugs him.

---

VOTE: acryon
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Post Post #1181 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:31 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Sorry, Amy, I think you've misunderstood what I was asking for. You mentioned that you have a history of responding a certain way as scum ("I actually try to play for my wincon in these situations rather than getting mad a town") and I'd like for you to point me to some examples of your history that back up that statement.
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Post Post #1182 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:34 am

Post by scrambles »

In post 1179, Riddleton wrote:@Acryon: More inclined to believe it's scrambles & CKD rather than you.. but we'll see. At my second comment with Scrambles, that was mostly sarcasm. Don't take any comment of mine too seriously with strike tags.


Sure thing. Feel free to take back any posts you say that deliberately distort content. It's forgiven
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Post Post #1183 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:35 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1180, ChannelDelibird wrote:There are, like, loads of people who do that as town.

Not as much as she has.

In post 1180, ChannelDelibird wrote:His Titus case is all about her image, cookie-cutter statements that sound worthy ('no town would ever post a read without immediately backing it up; that would be [gasp]
anti-town
!') but aren't actually applied to how actual players approach the game of mafia.

Again, I never said there was an absolute rule, but it has always been about the
pattern
. Scum are never defined by one anti-town action, but patterns instead.
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Post Post #1184 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:35 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Scrambles, who are your scumreads? Seems like you ave a lot.
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Post Post #1185 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:36 am

Post by scrambles »

I've already posted it
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Post Post #1186 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:36 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

In post 1183, acryon wrote:
In post 1180, ChannelDelibird wrote:There are, like, loads of people who do that as town.

Not as much as she has.


Wrong.

Again, I never said there was an absolute rule, but it has always been about the
pattern
. Scum are never defined by one anti-town action, but patterns instead.


I have absolutely no reason to believe that Titus is more likely to display this pattern of behaviour as scum than town.
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Post Post #1187 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:38 am

Post by acryon »

Regarding my playstyle shift, I tend to switch it up, as well as my involvement, based on what's happening in the game. Day 1, we all have a lot less to go off of, so I prefer to play devil's advocate and speak objectively in an effort to keep us from emotionally riding a mis-lynch train. When the days get later, my reads, as well as everyone else's, get stronger, so you're going to hear more about them and they will be said with more conviction.
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Post Post #1188 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:38 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1186, ChannelDelibird wrote:
In post 1183, acryon wrote:
In post 1180, ChannelDelibird wrote:There are, like, loads of people who do that as town.

Not as much as she has.


Wrong.

Feel free to point me to any player in this game who has posted as many naked town-reads as she has.
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Post Post #1189 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:39 am

Post by Riddleton »

In post 1187, acryon wrote:Regarding my playstyle shift, I tend to switch it up, as well as my involvement, based on what's happening in the game. Day 1, we all have a lot less to go off of, so I prefer to play devil's advocate and speak objectively in an effort to keep us from emotionally riding a mis-lynch train. When the days get later, my reads, as well as everyone else's, get stronger, so you're going to hear more about them and they will be said with more conviction.


I'm going to meta you to see if this statement holds water.
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Post Post #1190 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:39 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Scrambles, I ask because this is the most recent post of yours that I can find on an iso-scan declaring your list of scumreads (though acknowledging that you've since moved me to null-pending); let me know if I'm missing one. But now you're accusing Riddleton of "deliberately distorting content". So is Riddleton on your scumlist now? What does that mean for Titus and CKD?
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Post Post #1191 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:41 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

In post 1188, acryon wrote:Feel free to point me to any player in this game who has posted as many naked town-reads as she has.


A sample size of 'in this game' means nothing; you're saying that no town player goes around playing like that. If true, that would be a universal thing, and I'm saying that I see loads of players on this site with similar approaches - including Titus.
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Post Post #1192 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:41 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1189, Riddleton wrote:
In post 1187, acryon wrote:Regarding my playstyle shift, I tend to switch it up, as well as my involvement, based on what's happening in the game. Day 1, we all have a lot less to go off of, so I prefer to play devil's advocate and speak objectively in an effort to keep us from emotionally riding a mis-lynch train. When the days get later, my reads, as well as everyone else's, get stronger, so you're going to hear more about them and they will be said with more conviction.


I'm going to meta you to see if this statement holds water.

You will find what I've described. I almost always get scum-read early on by at least a couple people for sounding "too town".
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Post Post #1193 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:42 am

Post by Amy Farrah Fowler »

In post 1181, ChannelDelibird wrote:Sorry, Amy, I think you've misunderstood what I was asking for. You mentioned that you have a history of responding a certain way as scum ("I actually try to play for my wincon in these situations rather than getting mad a town") and I'd like for you to point me to some examples of your history that back up that statement.

I have no history to back that up. I kind of just... said those things as I thought of them, without any backing or anything. Just please disregard all that, it's mostly rageposting.
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Post Post #1194 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:43 am

Post by acryon »

In post 1191, ChannelDelibird wrote:
In post 1188, acryon wrote:Feel free to point me to any player in this game who has posted as many naked town-reads as she has.


A sample size of 'in this game' means nothing; you're saying that no town player goes around playing like that. If true, that would be a universal thing, and I'm saying that I see loads of players on this site with similar approaches - including Titus.

Everything is within the context of a game; you can't try to exclude that. In the game we are in, no one has done it nearly as much as her, and given the rest of her posting history, her numerous naked reads are especially bad.
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Post Post #1195 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:45 am

Post by acryon »

@CDB: Let's flip the script then. Why do you think she is town?
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Post Post #1196 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:46 am

Post by scrambles »

In post 1190, ChannelDelibird wrote:Scrambles, I ask because this is the most recent post of yours that I can find on an iso-scan declaring your list of scumreads (though acknowledging that you've since moved me to null-pending); let me know if I'm missing one. But now you're accusing Riddleton of "deliberately distorting content". So is
Riddleton on your scumlist now?
What does that mean for Titus and CKD?


Yeah that was only four hours ago. Someone doesn't just switch slots over one post.
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Post Post #1197 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:47 am

Post by ChannelDelibird »

In post 1194, acryon wrote:Everything is within the context of a game; you can't try to exclude that. In the game we are in, no one has done it nearly as much as her, and given the rest of her posting history, her numerous naked reads are especially bad.


'Within the context of this game'
does not matter
. You are alleging that no town player would do this; that is an argument pertaining to a player's overall approach to participation in a game, which means that it is necessarily a universal argument, that could be applied in any given game, not just this one. 'She's doing Thing X more so than everyone else in this game'
is not the same
as 'She's more likely to do Thing X as scum than town'.
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Post Post #1198 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:49 am

Post by Green Crayons »

@CDB:


In post 1180, ChannelDelibird wrote:OK. This is why I'm coming around to an acryon vote. CKD, consider this as a start to answering your question about 'who are the scum who wanted an Amy wagon to succeed?' in post 1147.

Eh? Only CDB, farside, and Riddle were on the Amy-wagon (per ).
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Post Post #1199 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:49 am

Post by Titus »

Wow. Most of my townreads in this game haven't bern naked at all. :o

Y'all should realize acryonis very defensive for a guy with zero votes.
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