Mafia v. Wolves Redux: Finally Over!
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Phoebus Hall Monitor
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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I was thinking about this overnight, I think the Mayor might have been an unrecruited traitor who came up scum. I'm a little surprised Raffles wasn't vigged to give us more info on N9V to be honest.Kison wrote:Ok, what the hell? From what I can tell, IH was town. Now, ~N9V~ is either scum and lying, or an insane cop of some sort.
Killed DGB, you mean.We also know that Shanba killed Mastermind of Sin. So he wasn't lying about being the Vigilante.
I think the much simpler explanation would be that MoS was the mafia kill. Shooting seems a pretty standard mafia kill method to me.We know that someone also killed Mastermind of Sin. Since our Vigilante is dead, I'm going to guess that it was the ESE?-
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Kison .GIFted
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Kison .GIFted
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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theopor_COD PhD'oh!
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This alone makes me think it wasn't the ESE who carried out the kill of MoS.Kison wrote:Have we yet toconfirmthat ESE is NOT the Mafia?
As for IH. The flavour surrounding his death is contradictory. "nothing malevolent" but "covered his tracks well". The colours are damn confusing especially as MoS is the same as Shanba and DGB.Phoebus wrote:One of the first things the Estate had done when the first news of werewolves came into Lupieri was to invest in silver bullets...-
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Battle Mage Jester
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no, Shanba killed DGB.
i agree that IH was almost certainly town, and thus i am certain that N9V is scum. having an insane cop in such a naturally confusing game would just be silly...
i think todays choice is pretty obvious. Didnt N9V say that he could only detect 1 scumgroup?
im willing to wager that he took a gamble here, and guessed that IH was in the OPPOSING SCUMGROUP. thats why he changed his mind about which he could investigate. The way he saw it, he would either buy his buddies another day, or become confirmed cop, and live alot longer.
Vote: N9V
Kison wrote:Ok, what the hell? From what I can tell, IH was town. Now, ~N9V~ is either scum and lying, or an insane cop of some sort.
We also know that Shanba killed Mastermind of Sin. So he wasn't lying about being the Vigilante.
We know that Mastermind of Sin killed Shanba. He was a werewolf.
We know that someone also killed Mastermind of Sin. Since our Vigilante is dead, I'm going to guess that it was the ESE?Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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Kison .GIFted
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Fonz, what I'm saying is that Mafia could be ESE. We don't really know. We can guess it was one or the other(which could be the same thing).
Anyways, as for IH... I noticed the "covering his tracks" thing too. However, his role name is simply "Mayor of Lupieri" I don't think that if he were ESE/Mafia, that thatslightlyimportant tag would be left out of his role name. Notice that al4x & MoS both have something indicative of their alignment in their role's name.
Hey Infamous BATTLE MAGE, the SANITY of a cop wasn't just some made up myth. People use it in their games. What makes this game so special?Battle Mage wrote:i agree that IH was almost certainly town, and thus i am certain that N9V is scum. having an insane cop in such a naturally confusing game would just be silly...
The second part of what you're saying is definitely plausible. However, I would like to hear what he has to say for himself first.-
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The Greg Goon
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IH might have been a miller, maybe even a GF; the lynch scene was pretty vague as to his alignment.Kison wrote:Ok, what the hell? From what I can tell, IH was town. Now, ~N9V~ is either scum and lying, or an insane cop of some sort.
I find it highly unlikely that ESE is responsible for that kill. The MoS kill is inconsistent flavor-wise with what we know of ESE.Kison wrote:We know that someone also killed Mastermind of Sin. Since our Vigilante is dead, I'm going to guess that it was the ESE?
Also, I find it interesting that the color coding of dead roles seems to have stopped. Anyone have any thoughts on this?-
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Fuldu Mafia Scum
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Unless Night One's strangling came from the wolves (since Shanba disavowed that kill), that would mean ESE killed one of their own with al4xz. I think this is further evidence that ESE is one of three scum groups, possibly the Mafia, but I still think more likely to be a non-killing group like a cult.We know that someone also killed Mastermind of Sin. Since our Vigilante is dead, I'm going to guess that it was the ESE?
As for color coding, my recollection is that IH wasn't blue initially. Possibly the colors don't appear for a certain amount of time, or more probably, Phoebus just doesn't always remember to do it, then sees it and goes "Oh, yeah."It takes a village to raise a lynch mob.-
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DrippingGoofball Mafia Piñata
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Krappp! I'm dead! That sucks.
Go town!Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet-
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XReyoX Goon
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@n9v: Have you got an explanation to why IH appears to be town. Could you also tell us that wether you've got an innocent/guilty result last night (and if possible, who you've investigated)?
I hate to believe in what BM said but I currently think that n9v is more likely scum than an insane cop. The cops in this game can only detect one scum group, making them 1/2 as powerful as the ones in normal games already. I think the best way to verify what n9v's role is is to see what he have got from last night.
Kison analysis to last night scene is accurate, except he has got Mos and DGB confused.(pointed out by Fonz).
@Greg. If IH is a GF. He wouldn't be detected as guilty by n9v.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Why on Earth would N9V have that information? Mods don't tend to tell cops 'oh, you just investigated a miller' or whatever. If he's a cop, he just knows who he investigated and what he got told their alignment was.XReyoX wrote:@n9v: Have you got an explanation to why IH appears to be town. Could you also tell us that wether you've got an innocent/guilty result last night (and if possible, who you've investigated)?
The important thing you're forgetting is, if he's not the real mafia-finding cop, THERE'S ALMOST CERTAINLY ANOTHER ONE OUT THERE. So unless and until he gets counterclaimed, we shouldn't lynch him.-
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Fuldu Mafia Scum
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Unless I'm mistaken, we're assuming that to be true because of N9V's claim. If he's lying, then it may well be the case that there's a full cop out there.XReyoX wrote:The cops in this game can only detect one scum group, making them 1/2 as powerful as the ones in normal games already.
Yeah, not really. Counterclaiming as a cop, especially this early in the game, really wouldn't be very good play. If a cop claim is a lie, it usually doesn't take long to figure it out; when that happens, the town should lynch, even if there's no counterclaim. Consequently, the real cop should wait for that to happen rather than outing himself with a counterclaim.XReyox wrote:The important thing you're forgetting is, if he's not the real mafia-finding cop, THERE'S ALMOST CERTAINLY ANOTHER ONE OUT THERE. So unless and until he gets counterclaimed, we shouldn't lynch him.
Also, in a game this size, it's not totally infeasible that there would be two half-cops and a full cop, although two of each type of half-cop would be unusual. In any event, if N9V turns up scum, you've just bought yourself a long hard look, The Fonz.
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As for actually determining where to go today, I'd point out that the alternative for checking N9V's claim is to lynch his other investigation, Raffles. If he's insane, then Raffles should be mafia. I've been wanting to lynch Raffles since Day Two, and nothing he's done has made me less inclined to do so. For now, I'm still willing to cut N9V enough slack that I'd rather lynch somebody I'm suspicious of for other reasons in order to verify/disprove N9V's claim.
vote: RafflesIt takes a village to raise a lynch mob.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Bah. Unless it's endgame, or the claimed cop's come out with investigations that are incompatible withanysanity, I don't see how you'd figure out that a cop claim is a lie with enough certainty to lynch without a counterclaim. If there's someone capable of counterclaiming, they'll come out eventually or be NKed, and there's no harm in leaving N9V alive until that point.
Given the flavour surrounding IH's death, I think it's pretty likely he was a role that came up guilty to cop investigations, whether miller or traitor, so your pushing of a lynch of a guy with an innocent on him as a 'test' seems deeply suspect to me, an attempt to get an easy mislynch. I'd suggest leaving N9V alive, but not lynching solely on the basis of his results, for a few days yet.-
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Kison .GIFted
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Kison .GIFted
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~N9V~ Goon
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I have only one good explanation for why IH turned out Scum for me. Mabey he is the counter GodFather type role? Where if investigated, he turns up scum. Cuz all politics are scummy in one manner or another. Also, I couldn't veiw anyone last night, because of 'strange occurences'. I still beleive I'm sane, and Raffles isn't the way to go today.
Also,Vote BMYour willing to kill a claimed cop because of some little fight of me being sane/insane. Even so, if I'm insane, I can still contribute lots. I'm beleiving your scum as of now, and thereso, your the play today.-
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Kison .GIFted
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Fuldu Mafia Scum
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Yeah, that's generally called a Miller-type role, which is something several other people have suggested. The thing is, that's always what scum who have claimed cop are going to say when their "guilty" result turns out not to be.~N9V~ wrote:I have only one good explanation for why IH turned out Scum for me. Mabey he is the counter GodFather type role? Where if investigated, he turns up scum. Cuz all politics are scummy in one manner or another.
Yeah, this does not inspire confidence. For one thing, insane cops are a lot more common than millers. And rarely are insane cops given much of a hint regarding their sanity, so they often continue to believe that they're sane, despite evidence to the contrary.Also, I couldn't veiw anyone last night, because of 'strange occurences'. I still beleive I'm sane, and Raffles isn't the way to go today.
Secondly, "strange occurrences" is pretty vague, whereas Shanba got a fairly clear picture of why his attempt on Akbar didn't work. And in addition to being vague, "I didn't get a result last night" is another choice approach for scum who have claimed cop.
And here's the thing: if you're an insane cop, we need to figure that out. The only available datapoint that can contribute to that discussion is Raffles' mafiosity. Raffles coasted through yesterday because your claim put pressure on IH (and because Akbar and Kison didn't feel like listening to additional discussion on the subject). He's been scummy in a variety of ways since Day One and still hasn't been held accountable for it.Also,Vote BMYour willing to kill a claimed cop because of some little fight of me being sane/insane. Even so, if I'm insane, I can still contribute lots. I'm beleiving your scum as of now, and thereso, your the play today.It takes a village to raise a lynch mob.-
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Akbar Goon
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If IH was a Miller role, wouldn't that show up on his role tag? I think N9V is lying. As much as I don't trust BM & Fuldu, I think their appraisal of the situation is accurate.
Yesterday we trusted his claim, and were punished for it. Half a dozen of us are already dead. We don't have the numbers to be throwing away making 100% sure that N9V is scum. If we demand that the real cop claims before lynching scum, then we've allowed him to not only kill once but twice.
The only chance that N9V is innocent is if he's an insane cop. I think it's unlikely the Mod would not only give us an Insane Cop, but also only allow him to identify 1 scum group. Everyone he investigated would come up guilty except that one scum group. That wouldn't be a benefit, it'd be a curse. Couple that with the "Strange Occurrence" that kept N9V from investigating would mean the scum have a Role Blocker as well! The probability of options weighs heavily on N9V being scum.
Also of note, neither scum group tried to kill N9V. The fact that N9V is not voting Raffles instead of BM is suspect as well, considering the only chance N9V's innocent is being Insane Cop. This of course would mean Raffles is scum.
Vote N9V-
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XReyoX Goon
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XReyoX
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Battle Mage Jester
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thats total BS. clinches my vote. N9V is scum.
BM
~N9V~ wrote:I have only one good explanation for why IH turned out Scum for me. Mabey he is the counter GodFather type role? Where if investigated, he turns up scum. Cuz all politics are scummy in one manner or another. Also, I couldn't veiw anyone last night, because of 'strange occurences'. I still beleive I'm sane, and Raffles isn't the way to go today.
Also,Vote BMYour willing to kill a claimed cop because of some little fight of me being sane/insane. Even so, if I'm insane, I can still contribute lots. I'm beleiving your scum as of now, and thereso, your the play today.Show2020 Stats - 31 completed games:
Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4
winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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It didn't show up on Al's tag whether he was cult, mafia or mason. Why would it come up on IH's? We seem to have a limited-reveal game. Deal with it.Akbar wrote:If IH was a Miller role, wouldn't that show up on his role tag? I think N9V is lying. As much as I don't trust BM & Fuldu, I think their appraisal of the situation is accurate.
Massive FOS: anyone pushing an N9V lynch today
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