Open 566: Murder on the Oriental Express (Game Over)

[ChannelDelibird]

Hope you get a good break, farside!

Mod: Could we get a deadline extension please, given farside's V/LA and the replacement hunt for Toby?

I wouldn't normally ask for one but I don't really want my top two townreads unable to vote in the run-up to deadline.

Currently 'working on' sorting out my views on the three I haven't sorted yet in as much as I keep getting distracted by stuff.

[ChannelDelibird]

acryon, I'm just going over stuff at the moment but, if you've considered at all the interactions between Titus and Belisarius as part of your case, I can't find it in your iso. Do you have anything which you feel points to them as likely buddies specifically?

[ChannelDelibird]

acryon in brief:

Non-committal in the extreme on Days 1 and 2, picked up when I pointed out as much - his greater investment in Doing Something has resulted in vocal support (but no actual vote) on Amy wagon and now the Titus wagon.

That Titus wagon is built on fundamentally flawed reasoning - it's along the same lines as Beli's vote on farside from way back in as much as it's proclaiming "behaviour X is not good for the town! Righteously, I thee vote!", which is a kind of case that scum prefer because it can be portrayed as objectively helpful even if not successful - and does not consider her relationship to the flipped scum in any visible way.

Those are the main things. To that I would add this: I don't really understand how we got from "Amy is my biggest scum-read" BEFORE her massive blow-up in reaction to her wagon, which acryon found scummier than most, to the point now where he is "not confident enough" on her alignment to consider a vote for her, given that acryon had not substantively discussed Amy for around 200 posts in between. His whole conduct around that Amy wagon, supporting it with everything apart from an oddly missing vote to completely failing to address it during its crumble, is scummy.

Conclusion: Scum.

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Scrambles:

First things first, I'm properly reading over GC's case in 1060 for the first time and I have a lot of time for the way it's put together. I don't agree with everything in it (some of the Blonde c) parts, for instance) but it asks a lot of questions worth asking. The Beli connections look pretty good for both players to have occupied the slot. As of the end of the post, I am sold.

Scrambles's response to it isn't great. First he does exactly the thing that Beli did after I replaced in and voted for him, which is compliment the case "even though it's wrong". Then he just defuses it without explaining himself and complains that he wasn't asked direct questions, as if that somehow makes it impossible for him to engage.

Conclusion: Scum.

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Riddleton's basically fine; not bothering here Today. Ordinarily I'd go into detail but I'd rather go to bed.

Either one of the two is a good lynch for me Today, and we may not need that deadline extension after all. This game seems a lot clearer than it did a few hours ago.

UNVOTE: acryon
VOTE: Scrambles

[farside22]

second request for deadline extension please

will do my best to be around and finish my read. I feel myself calming down more and more and should be functional.

[Baezu]

i will extend the deadline by two days for now but if I can't get a replacement for TobyLoby I will consider extending it further

[farside22]

CDB scumhunting in his spot was why he isconftown to me. Yhat post alone looks like I say the opposite. Sorry for the confudion Farside.

Thanks for clarifying.

Acyron: Why did Nakedjoger's votes with no reasoning and nothing added to the game never come up while he was around as scummy?

There are a couple reasons for this. One is that NJ was actually voting. Even naked votes provide pressure, so they are actually doing something. Titus was just throwing out naked reads, which don't really do anything. They don't provide pressure, and they don't provide information or perspectives for the town to think about. The other reason is that I just wasn't looking at NJ in that way. I'm sure part of that is because he was actually voting, which does something, so I didn't think to look back over, but Titus' "empty" play caused me to go back through her ISO, which is where I identified what I did.

I just looked at there iso.
Naked voted and stated reads with no reasoning.
Titus actually explained a few of her town reads.
Also from what I gather titus put together some VCA for her reasoning. She is also asking questions and probing those she finds scummy so I'm very unclear as to why her read is scummy vs naked jogger who i feel reads the same way but with more votes.

I'm going to do one last iso on amy, scrambles and acryon before I vote. I will get on it if not tomorrow, Sunday.

Thanks for this:

Hope you get a good break, farside!

.

I'm definitely an emotional wreak, but I have had some interviews these past 2 weeks and some good and bad news in regards to medical insurance. Also don't get me started on trying to file for unemployment and those issues.

[farside22]

mod: please fix the links above

[Riddleton]

Here's my current analysis of all the players. Following through on GC's idea since I think it would be informative to recap all of my thoughts as well. For the record, this is ordered from scumreads to townreads in order of confidence.

CKD

I'm quite confident is scum. He is my most confident scumread and my preferred lynch for today. I, myself have posted a general case against him in 803 and also an associative case against him in 1076 and 1077

Scrambles

is currently being read as lean-scum. His deliberate misinformation regarding his skill level isn't encouraging and is quite a strong tell in itself. GC's scrambles case is solid and is definitely valid for the most part!

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Acryon

, I'm unsure on. I currently read him as null. I dislike how he takes both sides, the bad Titus case, and also don't the AtE and flattery in posts #1344 and #1289. The final point if probably my paranoia, but I still find it a little unusual nontheless.

---

Amy

, is currently lean-town. However, I don't like her overreaction to CDB's case. The slot hasn't been very significant otherwise. I don't think this slot is newbie, as I've stated before. I've stated my thoughts on the possible reasons why one would hide that fact. I consider options a) or b) listed in that post to be more likely the the third option that she's a secret alt.

CDB

, is lean-town. His posts are fine. Although the Amy case was soon dismantled, I don't think that is scummy. It's not scummy to find out your case is incorrect or perhaps not as concrete as you thought, that's just how the game works. We're never 100% correct all the time, after all. I'm willing to write-off Chaos' play as mere town confusion given how CDB has been playing so far. I don't have much reason to suspect this slot is scum.

TobyLoby

's play hasn't stuck out very much. She was very active before she was replaced, and asking the right sort of questions, although I don't agree much with her playstyle. She's playing a very safe game, but I do think this is lean-town for now.

Farside

, is lean-town. Her posts are generally spot-on. I've no problems were her posts in this game. I disagree with GC's assesment that the fact people get NKed because they scum read farside is alignment-indicative. I don't think it is, and just think it's WiFOM.

Green Crayons

is town. I disagree with his assessment of my CKD case, but obviously that's perfectly fine. Your scrambles case is solid and definitely something worth considering lynching today, as an alternative to CKD.

Titus

, is town. Her posts are strong and I can relate to most of them.

[Nashville Dreams]

@Riddleton, can you just lynch Scrambles and let us argue over CKB/acryon tomorrow?

[Titus]

@Riddleton, can you just lynch Scrambles and let us argue over CKB/acryon tomorrow?

That was me. Sorry for hydra leak.

[Riddleton]

VOTE: scrambles

[curiouskarmadog]

Got some time, reading from…christ page 46,,posting as I go…if it turns into a wall of words I will break it up.

Such as, ie. I mentioned only a few examples to avoid the post becoming wall-like. The quotes you cherry-picked illustrate the same point. They're very much surface-reads and contrast with the reads you've given out on other people.

surface reads? spending a fucking hour or so reading someone's meta is a service read? But that is besides the point. if you felt like these were good examples of service reads, why did you not post them?

Riddleton?

- - -
Page 47 scrambles is coming off really..odd? Not sure why he is dodging “previous experience” questions.

- - -

Hm. Pretty confident on two of (scrambles, acryon, CKD) as the final scummies. I think this day has revealed a lot.

I agree, but certainly not what you think it has. I think that at-most 1 of those three are scum, and even then both of them are very low on my list.

wait, you are one of those 3?...this was a weird way to address this post.

acryon spent the first couple of days straddling the fence

hard

.

wasn’t acryon one of the 1st two votes on Bel Day2?

I've already posted it

fuck just post it again, why answer/avoid a question this way?

- - -

Page 50, still not liking scrambles, he is avoiding questions and when people call him on these actions, his defense..is…just strange? It doesn’t feel like he is scum hunting, or maybe it is more like I don’t feel like he is helping people scum hunt. People are asking him questions and instead of directly answering those questions, he comes back with other questions. Why not just answer said questions and then inquire about other people you think are scummy? Ask them questions. Put out a case, see who doesn’t agree with you or who does. Why do they agree with your, why not? You are not really doing any of these things. Why are you not trying to find scum?

THE POINT BEING: all of that could have been resolved if you simply made explicit that your experience offsite is more than the single game you completed on Tuesday of last week (or whenever). Instead, you argued for arguments sake, making a whole bunch of not very helpful discussion crop up.

GC says it better.

- - -

I also would join a Farside wagon too (sorry dear, people who say you and CD are scum keep dying)

WIFOM is my friend.

Sorry but if you read my meta you know I tend to target those that are town reads first and then worry about those that see me scum second.

Challenge expected (if I have time). Actually if I go back and find a scum game, where you did take out or let other’s take out town that were suspicious of you or your team partners, what are you going to say?

@CKD: Something I'd like to know when you are back.
Early on, one of your big issues with Skelda was how he kept calling people town without reasoning. Do you think this is dissimilar to what Titus has done, and if so why? If you think it is similar, what do you think of it this time around?

I have not notice Titus doing that (but that doesnt mean he hasnt). Skelda rubbed me wrong, because he was doing it without being asked for his leads AND it was really based on nothing (Day 1). It didnt set right with me. Now I was wrong about him, but if I were to do it all over again, it still would have pinged my scumdar. Now we are in Day 3...there is a lot more info to go on. What post(s) are you talking about specifically?

My gut is leaning cocky town for Titus at this point. But I am curious which posts you are indicating here.

Feel free to point me to any player in this game who has posted as many naked town-reads as she has.

A sample size of 'in this game' means nothing; you're saying that no town player goes around playing like that. If true, that would be a universal thing, and I'm saying that I see loads of players on this site with similar approaches - including Titus.

I typically find it scummy when it continues when asking for reason's and i get smart ass remarks. Like from Scrambles.

You say typically here..what are some examples that you don’t find this kind of behavior scummy?

For wqhat it's worth, I don't like the AtE/flattery associated with such comments like "you're my top town read". It's probably nothing, but it still irks me for whatever reason.

LOL, I am sorry, what was your stance on my Skelda case again?

So I am curious...instead of making this comment, why didnt you inquire WHY X has you as a top town read?

Farside

, is lean-town. Her posts are generally spot-on. I've no problems were her posts in this game. I disagree with GC's assesment that the fact people get NKed because they scum read farside is alignment-indicative. I don't think it is, and just think it's WiFOM.

Generally. okay, which ones ARE spot on? Just curious. You are leaning town on her, I would like to know why (specifically).

- - -
scrambles (and I dont care if you have already done it, just do it again) please post your TOP scum suspect and give me 3 reason WHY you think they are scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

sorry for wall of words...there was a lot of reading to do and I forgot to break the post up.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

Query for everyone: If you had to nail the scumteam, right now, which two people would you select?
(I want to get everyone's base scumreads, w/o reasoning)

[Riddleton]

Query for everyone: If you had to nail the scumteam, right now, which two people would you select?
(I want to get everyone's base scumreads, w/o reasoning)

Scrambles & CKD.

[Riddleton]

I'll answer your comments soon CKD. Stay tuned.

[ChannelDelibird]

acryon/Scrambles

[Green Crayons]

scrambles & CDB

[curiouskarmadog]

CDB/farside

but maybe this....want to see how some things are answered.

scrambles & CDB

[curiouskarmadog]

AFF,

what are yours?

[farside22]

My 3 are amy, scramble and acryon.

[farside22]

If I had to narrow 2 two it would be amy/scrabbke based on interaction. Which is almost none.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

Okay, so:
Riddleton: Scrambles/CKD
CDB: Acryon/Scrambles
GC: Scrambles and CDB
CKD: CDB/farside
Farside: Amy/Scrambles
Amy: CDB/[probably]acryon

My second scumread tends to change. And a quick (as in, very quick) skim through scrambles' ISO looked okay to me. Nevertheless, it's not a lynch I'm averse to.

[Amy Farrah Fowler]

If I had to narrow 2 two it would be amy/scrabbke based on interaction. Which is almost none.

I wasn't going to basically repeat what other people said about scrambles, and I had nothing extra to add, therefore the lack of interaction is axiomatically inevitable. I read through her ISO, I picked out posts that jump out to me, and I have a leaning-scumread on her.

[ChannelDelibird]

Going to be busy for a day or so. Some access but no long posts.