Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[Wisdom]

Ok, so Uticron is actually town, That's good to know. I probably should have read him as town when he was arguing with shinobi, but i felt like most of that argument was over playstyle and game theory.

Why is he town?

[Wisdom]

Widsom- I don't trust you yet. Why a peabody wagon?

Because he's scum? Read my first posts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If someone being Town made them right then everyone would have a 100% Town winrate. Trusting your own reads is important, but treating them as infallible is downright dangerous.
If there isn't time to move wagons (which I'd say there wasn't) then trying to do so is unhelpful. dave did have no option but to stay on it, whether or not he genuinely felt it was bad. Why are you so convinced that he would only have done so as Scum?

I completely agree with regards to trusting your own reads.

There was time when Dave originally unvoted. He had 2 days. He could have at least made an attempt. There was a number of people who were clearly undecided towards the end of D1.

If this was the only part of my case, I would have conceded and moved on. But, it's not. It's supported with various other things he has done that I found scummy.

What do you make of our recent interactions?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't really clarify one of my points in that last post.

The fact Dave made no attempt to push scum elsewhere after unvoting NPAU and then jumped back on the wagon makes me think he is scum. As town, I would expect an attempt at some scum-hunting and a push on somebody else to try and keep his town-read alive.

[Wisdom]

As Scum, you don't fight the wagon because you want him lynched and you don't want to look like you knew he was Town.
As Town, you don't fight the wagon because a lynch on Town is better then no lynch at all, plus you can't be certain you're right - maybe the people who put the wagon at L-1 are on to something.

goodmorning. Don't try to apply what you do as scum/town to everyone. Each person plays differently. Trying to argue that someone is town/scum because they didn't do what's generally expected of them is bullshit. People are not following a textbook.

[Wisdom]

Unless your point is that bbt's bullshit don't make dave scum, in which case I fully agree.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you want to do something productive with your posts, why aren't you looking at the people that voted for NPAU all willy nilly. for no reason, or reasons that didn't make sense?

Have a look through Dave's ISO. See if you can find his reasoning for voting NPAU because I don't see it anywhere.

In fact, Dave can you answer this instead of Josh.

Quote where you stated your reasons for joining the NPAU wagon.

[davesaz]

Not a contradiction.

NPAU is slightly scummy. GM is much more town.
Don't believe I can start a wagon and get it to a lynch.
Don't believe anyone else will either.
Need to verify not a PR.
Willing to switch votes, if someone does manage to get something going.
Not willing to abandon the only acceptable lynch we have and possibly end up with a worse lynch or no-lynch if it disintegrates totally.

Totally logical, from this position. Possible outcomes in order of most desired to least. NPAU wagon was going to be one of the first 2. Avoid 3rd result.

Lynch scum
Lynch town, not a PR
No lynch
Lynch a PR

[davesaz]

Confirming that NPAU is on the scum side of null for me.
Both observations on my 448 are correct, it's a statement of scumminess and scumhunting to do so. The (lack of) result does not look good for town NPAU.

I didn't expect BBT to be so obliging so quickly. This causes some reassessment (in the townward direction), though I also need to keep the principle in BBT's signature in mind.

pedit -- I'm very undecided on Huntress. I don't have experience of her previous games to work with and the behavior in this game doesn't really ping alignment in either direction.

You mean this post? Which refers to an earlier one?

[Wisdom]

I wonder which of my three scumreads is wrong if BBT is actually scum. It's starting to look more and more plausible.

[Wisdom]

Thanks.

You won't have to put up with me much more.

I think I'm going to replace out.

I see you're not replacing out after all.

So it's safe to assume this was AtE, right?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

1257 does not answer the contradiction.

Read the question. Try again.

I concede the point on you providing reasoning for being on the NPAU wagon. Very little reasoning, but still reasoning.

[Wisdom]

SHINOBI AND BBT- look at you two working together to push the same case on two different people. I'm having flash backs from a recent game.... BBT even the part where you asked the same question 50 billion times even though it was already answered. Have you been Metagaming recently?

Can you link to that game?

[Wisdom]

This is something scum do

That is what town do

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Wisdom,

Joining the Dave wagon yet or do you need more convincing?

[Wisdom]

I'm going to put off talking to/about Peabody for a while. Probably until he can post again.

Did you reread him though?

[Wisdom]

Hi Wisdom,

Joining the Dave wagon yet or do you need more convincing?

Hi BBT, I'm becoming pretty sure you're scum, especially since you're ignoring my posts. And I'm warning you, I tunnel harder than you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm warning you; nobody tunnels harder than I do.

Have you posted anything relevant?

[Wisdom]

As town, I would expect

There you go again with the generalizations and expectations

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GM asked for my reasoning. I gave it.

You can join the Dave wagon now.

Thanks.

[Wisdom]

Now I just want to confirm that you use stuff like "town do this/scum do this" to explain your reads when you are scum, and the deal is sealed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Another person who uses meta?

I'm sure Mala said we were similar. She may have been mistaken.

[Wisdom]

GM asked for my reasoning. I gave it.

Yeah, except that was no reasoning. Like I said in 1254, it can't be argued that someone is town or scum because they didn't do what theoretically was expected of them. You can't have expectations from someone because people play the game differently.

I've found that lots of scum try to push generalizations like these, so this increases my suspicions on you.

[Wisdom]

Eh, we can't be similar in every aspect. I find meta very useful.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh, I've given plenty of reasoning. It's strange you have fixated on those reasons.

I should warn you I'm very aware of my own meta.

Trying to use meta to read me will not work.