Mafia v. Wolves Redux: Finally Over!

[Phoebus]

Vote count:

2 ~N9V~ (Akbar, Battle Mage)

1 Battle Mage (~N9V~)
1 Raffles (Fuldu)

9 not voting

7 to lynch

[Kison]

The only chance that N9V is innocent is if he's an insane cop.

Or if IH is a Godfather who's role name was a bit misleading.

Also of note, neither scum group tried to kill N9V. The fact that N9V is not voting Raffles instead of BM is suspect as well, considering the only chance N9V's innocent is being Insane Cop. This of course would mean Raffles is scum.

We know that MoS, a werewolf, did kill last night. We

don't

know who killed MoS. That means that the Mafia(the ONLY group who would want to eliminate a legit cop VS Mafia), could have attempted to kill ~N9V~ last night and been blocked by a doctor.


Where do I stand? I'm a bit skeptical... I think the way N9V got his role mixed up, claimed suddenly, and wound up being wrong is a huge blow towards his credibility. The fact that he

coincidentally

prohibited from to investigating last night is yet another blow. However, he

needs

to tell me who he tried to investigate last night.

I think that Raffles is a valid play because it will kill two birds with one stone. Raffles was a prime suspect two days ago, we don't risk losing a claimed cop, and it will help determine N9V's claim.

I won't vote, however, until N9V answers my question.

[Kison]

Rereading my post, Akbar is correct on the first point. As Godfather, IH wouldn't show up as scum. So forget I even said that.

[Akbar]

We know that MoS, a werewolf, did kill last night. We

don't

know who killed MoS. That means that the Mafia(the ONLY group who would want to eliminate a legit cop VS Mafia), could have attempted to kill ~N9V~ last night and been blocked by a doctor.

If mafia didn't kill MoS last night, who could have? Our Vig killed DGB. If there is a cult, then they would have failed against MoS and been killed themselves. The only thing left would be a 2nd Vig, who happened to go for MoS. Leaving mafia to go for N9V AND happened to get doc protected even though IH came up town. That's pretty thin don't ya think?

[Fuldu]

If there is a cult, then they would have failed against MoS and been killed themselves.

That's what would (usually) happen if the cult had tried to recruit MoS. Cults are sometimes able to both recruit and kill (typically not on the same night), though, and there's no balance reason that cult kills against scum would need to be blocked.

It makes more sense for the MoS kill to be mafia (though it begs the question, if N9V was unlikely to be doc protected because IH came up town, why didn't the mafia kill him? Possibly because Raffles is scum and they know N9V is insane and are trying to delay having the fact that N9V is telling the truth from coming out as long as possible), but the other explanations aren't as thin as you're making them out.

[The Fonz]

The only chance that N9V is innocent is if he's an insane cop.

Or if IH is a Godfather who's role name was a bit misleading.

Or a miller, or a traitor...

Also of note, neither scum group tried to kill N9V. The fact that N9V is not voting Raffles instead of BM is suspect as well, considering the only chance N9V's innocent is being Insane Cop. This of course would mean Raffles is scum.

We know that MoS, a werewolf, did kill last night. We

don't

know who killed MoS. That means that the Mafia(the ONLY group who would want to eliminate a legit cop VS Mafia), could have attempted to kill ~N9V~ last night and been blocked by a doctor.

The fact that it was by shooting, makes me think MoS was the mafia kill. So I'm guessing they just left N9V alive in the hope people would turn on him today.

I think that Raffles is a valid play because it will kill two birds with one stone. Raffles was a prime suspect two days ago, we don't risk losing a claimed cop, and it will help determine N9V's claim.

I won't vote, however, until N9V answers my question.

Raffles may have been a 'prime suspect' but I actually think that wagon was poorly-reasoned and full of scum. By saying 'the only way he's innocent is if he's insane cop' is such a clearly beneficial strat if you're scum. You get to lynch one person not part of your scum group as a 'test', and if he comes up innocent, then you get to lynch the cop. Not buying it.

[Fuldu]

Raffles may have been a 'prime suspect' but I actually think that wagon was poorly-reasoned and full of scum.

Would you care to explain what you think is poorly reasoned about finding Raffles' behavior (especially, but not exclusively Day Two) scummy? I'd be happy to stand in for the now deceased (and known pro-town) Mr. Flay in prosecuting his actions.

As for the bandwagon being full of scum, I'd point out that one of the other players still on that bandwagon at the end of the day was spectrumvoid, who you substituted in for.

[TBuG]

I'm suspicious of N9V, but I think there's still a good chance he's telling the truth.

[The Fonz]

AGHHHHHH! Was just writing huge PbP of Raffles, lousy computer crashed 3/4 waythru. Will see if I have time to do a redux version before i turn in for the night.

[The Fonz]

Redux:

There appear to be a few points against Raffles:

1. THe claimed scumtrap, and his reaction to it. I find this:

I just said, you can think what you want, but this is what I did, end of story.

A particularly town defence- don't OMGUS, don't deflect, don't change your story, just say, this is it, this is the truth and nothing more. Kison claiming argument from repetition is obvious misrep- he claimed there were no more arguments to be made, let you make up your own mind. Those continuing to push the subject were clearly not helping the town.

2. The unvote as we neared deadline- whilst I think I myself disagree with some of his premises (stalled wagon = town) I can get on baord with his claimed thought process there.

3. His speculation about scum numbers- I don't see anything wrong at all here. His 'two groups of three' theory was fine, probably right, and in no way suggest scum, important to remember that scum wouldn't know how many in the other group. In particular, I see no good case that he had any more information about the nature of ESE than anyone else.

DGB coming up town when everyone was trying to jump to a 'Raffles and DGB' conclusion doesn't hurt his cause either. DGB gave me a very 'townie, convinced she is right, and willing to go out on a limb to derail a scummy bandwagon' vibe that day.

Also, given the size of his wagon, and the fact that the one person willing to defend him has come up town, I find it hard to think of a plausible set of scumbuddies for him.

Based on my latest re-read, it jumps out at me how much Kison was misrepresenting Raffles, making WIFOM arguments, and so on. Combined with his play today, i think that merits a

vote: Kison

.

Also, Fuldu, regarding SV, I'm sure I'm not the first replacement to find himself disagreeing with one or more actions of his predecessor.

[~N9V~]

Let me reword this. I think i was roleblocked. What happened was that during the night, a drunk stumbled into me, and then became a cling on. I didn't want to comprimise the missoion, so I decided to leave the mission alone. There wasa strange occurence to.

[Kison]

Who did you try to investigate?

[~N9V~]

You.

[Kison]

Thank you.

[Kison]

Vote : Raffles

[Battle Mage]

sorry, why isnt N9V scum?

[XReyoX]

@Kison: How does n9v trying to investigate you make him not a scum?

[The Fonz]

@Kison: How does n9v trying to investigate you make him not a scum?

What is it with you and the rampant rolefishing?

[XReyoX]

@Kison: How does n9v trying to investigate you make him not a scum?

What is it with you and the rampant rolefishing?

I asked n9v whether he knows why IH came up town because he haven't told us what happened last night. Maybe he already knows that he is insane or something else which leads to that outcome.

I want to know why kison thinks that n9v is not scum because he investigated him because I've got a "stange occurence" yesterday and kison was in it.

[Akbar]

I want to know why kison thinks that n9v is not scum because he investigated him because I've got a "stange occurence" yesterday and kison was in it.

Well thats definitely worth listening to. How bout it Kison. What sort of drama do you and XReyoX share?

Unvote

[XReyoX]

@Akbar: So you don't think that n9v is a lying scum now?

@Bird: Post pls. 7 posts in total for 4 days while 4 for them are just saying you're gonna do a reread, 1 post for your random post and another for your unvote are ruining our game.

[Kison]

I don't

know

that N9V is not scum. What he is saying makes sense, however. I used an item that allowed me to fly up into the air, and N9V comes out the next day saying he was not only role-blocked, but that a strange occurrence occurred when he targeted me. Why didn't he just stick with the latter for his explanation?

Very inconclusive, but I'm not sold on his scuminess just yet.

I've got a "stange occurence" yesterday and kison was in it.

Explain.

[Battle Mage]

sorry, why isnt N9V scum?

hello?

[~N9V~]

My strange occurences were the witch overhead again. And then, after i lost the drunk.Then I saw the witch land in the area of Shanba, DrippingGoofball, and Kisons house.

[~N9V~]

Well, not necisarily a withc. It cackles and flies, but I haven't got a clear view of it yet.