Open 572: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem - Game Over

[Fink]

If it wasn't that, then perhaps you could clarify why you think my vote was scummy. Specifically.

"i will convince myself that acryon is scum"
"i will convince everyone else that i think acryon is scum"

i am accusing you of the latter
which would come from scum motivation

it is not that you should have voted for someone else
or that i disagree with your reasons
or that i think the acryon lynch was a poor one

i think you are more interested in showing that you are scumhunting
"look at me im scumhunting"
then actually scumhunting
this is directly related to my thinking some of your questions to acryon were uselesss

Um, it seems like the reply you're looking for is the parts of my previous post you neglected to address.

Also, you keep saying I'm not scumhunting, but why don't my repeated rereads and comments and cases on Phil, or my questioning of Blair count?

And don't you see that Acryon

looked

scummier, AND more clearly identified himself as uninterested in helping town during my questioning? It's almost as if I decided to vote for him based on my questioning. Why do you think it was useless?

[Not_Mafia]

VC 4.05

Blair (1)-

Thor665

Phillammon (2)-

Dyslexicon, Fink

Shaddowez (0)-

Thor665 (0)-

droog (0)-

Fink (2)-

droog, Phillammon

Dyslexicon (0)-

DCLXVI (0)-

Not Voting (3)-

Blair, Shaddowez, DCLXVI

With

8

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-10-21 20:00:00)

- Oct 21th 19:00 GMT

[Not_Mafia]

v/la - Oct 14-19

I will probably be around, I hope. But potentially sporadic, so v/la is being declared.

Noted.

[Phillammon]

Oh hey look Fink is taking quotes out of context to suit his argument. In other news, grass still green, water still wet.

Everything you said in 963 has already been addressed, I'm still waiting for you to respond to me on that subject, you were incorrect on the people who were opposed to my lynch and whaddaya know I produced the evidence to support that fact as well. Meanwhile, yes, I was not opposed to a policy lynch on wgeurts. I immediately, in the very same post, no less, made it clear that that was BECAUSE he was also my top scumspect and thus the person who I would lynch as a regular lynch as well. And, surprise surprise, when somebody else said roughly the same thing as you did here- granted, phrased as a question, not a flat out accusation, I responded to them saying prettymuch exactly what I am saying right now, in #162.

Apologies if I'm coming across as a bit abrasive, but life is collapsing on me a bit at the moment (not going to call a V/LA but it's getting towards that and if things go on I may have to) and Fink's starting to seriously get on my nerves there.

Not technically a PEdit but I didn't see it cause it was on the next page: "Also, you keep saying I'm not scumhunting, but why don't my repeated rereads and comments and cases on Phil, or my questioning of Blair count?"
I'm more than happy to field this question- because rereading me isn't bearing any fruit, even if it was what you're actually doing is going back and repeatedly taking quotes out of context (this is, incidentally, instrumental to your case on Droog too). You keep debating points that have already been done to death, then start throwing out accusations based on people not answering you- more often than not, when they have answered you. Or linked you to the post in which they answered the exact same questions 800 posts ago. Like I am doing. Right at this second.

[shaddowez]

Phil

- I like the fact that you finished your thoughts, but it's easy to do something after being called out on it and saying "hey, doesn't that make me look town now?". I did also like the content in it, so I'm going to hold off on voting you right now, but you're still definitely scummy to me.

That being said, using his inactivity as a case for Phil being scum is terrible. First off, it starts an entire WIFOM argument with the way it was presented. "If he says scum would do it, then he does it, he's scummy, but would he think we'd think he was scummy if he did it", and then nobody messes with a Sicilian and somebody dies.
Princess Bride jokes aside, it's just a weak and terrible argument. Gameplay aside, this is a game and things happen IRL, and if you can't post for some period of time, you can't post. I've said in other games (if not here, can't remember), to me it's not post count, but content.

As for the vacant slots, this stinks However, it doesn't make me feel very good about the DCL/Bins/Fokem slot. I can't say anything about Fokem (he had a total of 3 posts on site, all /ins), but I wasn't liking Bins. Her posts were fluff and lacked anything to go off at all. DCL came in and provided a nice entrance. He then began to tunnel on acryon, and kept promising reads that he never gave.

I don't want to vote the slot, because I really dislike not giving replacements a chance first, but at this point pretend my vote is on DCL's slot.

[Not_Mafia]

Dyslexicon has been prodded, this is his third prod so I will begin seeking a replacement immediately.

[Not_Mafia]

Bicephalous Bob replaces Blair

[Bicephalous Bob]

hey hey

[Bicephalous Bob]

page 2

droog seems town

thor doesn't

if I understand the setup correctly, johnny staying alive was pretty essential to the scumteam

thor would want the first day to end before he's forced to oppose the johnny wagon

also "I townread droog" doesn't feel natural in context

[Bicephalous Bob]

page 3

ew sarcasm tags

lazy paranoia

shadow seems town

[Bicephalous Bob]

page 4

droog is really town

Vote: wgeurts

This can go though. As soon as we started talking about a Johnny lynch suddenly a quick hammer. No thanks.

wow mr mafia principles feels really strongly about this[/sarcasm]

[Bicephalous Bob]

page 7

dyslexicon seems town too

shadow is getting worse

[Bicephalous Bob]

page 15

bins seems pretty town

[Bicephalous Bob]

page 40

I scrolled through the walls

that was nice

droog, dys and roman numerals seem town

VOTE: thor

[Fink]

Welcome to the game Bob! Could you explain your town-read on Roman Numerals Guy please? What do you think of his reluctence to explain anything?

I know you probably aren't all the way caught up, but do you think you could review the wagon on Acryon in particular?

It started with post 679, when Roman XVWhatever came in.

Earlier on, Shaddowez gave his beginnings of a scum read here, which we all sort of overlooked at the time I think, since he didn't post for a long time before getting on the wagon. I know I forgot this initially, and I think no one mentionted it until Shaddowez brought it up much later.

Do you have any questions you want to ask us? I feel the game has stalled with so many replacements, and Droog and Phil seem unintested in having a discussion with me, both are in tunnel mode, and Thor is V/LA. I happen to think both are scum, but I'm not going to convince them of that. Let me know what you want to talk about and I'll happily oblidge.

[Fink]

Phil, are you still arguing with me about whether I should have waited for Droog "It's past hammer time" Droogensen to switch his vote to you? You seem to be attacking me emotionally and I can't figure out what you're wanting me to respond on.

I don't like your sudden switch from rational calmness to extreme emotion.

I would also say that I've done more scumhunting than you and Droog combined. Pressuring my top scum read and asking questions are pretty much the definition of scumhunting.

You've barely moved your vote all game, you've done barely any analysis of anything, and now you're blindly tunnelling me and have just about admitted to it. How is this a more useful contribution than asking people questions to attempt to get a read on them?

That question was rhetorical. It isn't.

[Bicephalous Bob]

I read everything until the walls started and skimmed through the walls, looking for bits that indicated change of tone and read the surrounding posts. I'm as caught up as I ever will be.

As for the acryon wagon, DC initiating, then jumping off seemed very natural, the rest didn't do much to me. I also had a townread on Bins.

If you're familiar with thor, do you think the post I quoted aligns with his personality and views on anti-town behavior?

[Fink]

I read a bunch of snippets of old Thor games trying to figure him out. Based on the section you read, he was a scum read of mine at that time too. But I've since moved him to town. I'm no expert on him though, and I hate to say too much since I haven't played with him outside this game, just read his ISOs in some old games.

That said, here's what I think I've figured out about him.

He seems to be abbrasive like that as town or scum, especially when he think people aren't paying attention to the game. This avoiding-giving-clear-reasons-for-votes thing annoys me, but again, he seems to do it in town and scum games. I get the impression he'd have been willing to outright policy-lynch wgeurts even if there wasn't any scummy timing to his hammer. I'm disinclined to read him as scum from that. (Thor, correct me if I'm misrepresenting you here.)

As for why I have him as a town read:
1. He seems frustrated with the game in a way that I suspect is townish of him, specifically he seems annoyed with the lack of effort on behalf of town players. I sort of think he'd try to guilt us a bit less or a bit differently if he was scum. I developed this impression when I got into the kerfuffle with him about his accusing me of not reading.
2. I know this is a minor thing, but scum have daychat in this setup. As I said to Acryon, I think if Thor were scum, he wouldn't let his buddies slack the way they've been slacking. I get the impression that everyone has been kind of half-assed this game. We've had so many replacements. I could hypothetically see a Thor/DXCVIguy scumteam, and early on I had thoughts of a Thor/Droog scumteam, but I just can't see him being scum with most of the players in this game.
3. When he started taking heat for making the game harder to read, it looks to me like he legitimately started trying not to, particularly sometime after I replaced in. He was huffy about it, and didn't say much about it, but he seemed to fade back a bit like asked. I think he could have been more disruptive while seeming townish and gotten away with it.
4. Process of elimination: Of the other players remaining, I find 4-5 of them scummier than Thor (I've been reevaluating your slot recently, and I think I'm back to the same sort of weak-but-going-with-it town read as I have on Thor for the moment). We know there are 2/8 scum, not 5/8.

That said, I think meta arguments are probably not so great here; something I gathered looking into him is that Thor is hard to read even to people who play with him a lot. So I think that if he

is

scum, the best chance to catch him is to catch his partner first. Without something much stronger, I'm not intersted in lynching Thor without lynching his scumbuddy first (barring some hypothetical endgame scenario.)

[Fink]

Bob: RE: "I'm as caught up as I ever will be"

I get not wanting to scrutinize the big wall arguments, they are pretty stupid and agonizing, but how should we talk to you about old posts. I'm already feeling that most of what I say isn't being read or at least not read carefully, but the posts with lots of quotes are what create walls. Would you prefer quotes, links, how should we try to point you at older material? IMO not much of current interest happened BEFORE the stupid Thor-Blair argument.

[Bicephalous Bob]

It's all pretty interesting to me!

the thing I quoted isn't scummy because it's abrasive, it's scummy because it doesn't showcase the attitude needed to want to lynch someone because they did something anti-town

groot's "we have tons of mislynches" attitude is more believable

you can just act like I read individual posts and I'll try to fill the blanks myself

just don't ask my opinion on back and forths consisting entirely out of walls

[Dyslexicon]

Hi people. Sorry for the inactivety. Not_Mafia has informed me that I won't be replaced if I post in thread.
I kind of forgot about the game because it was so slow and RL stuff was needing my attention. Sorry about that.
I don't want there to be any more replacements that has to read 40 pages though when I already know what's been going on.
Give me some time today and I will catch up on the last pages.

[shaddowez]

Hey Dys - when you come back, let me know your thoughts on the Droog vs. Fink argument. If I remember correctly, you had a townread on Droog, I know you have a scum read on Phil, and the hierarchy looks like this:

Droog --> Fink --> Phil

[shaddowez]

By hierarchy, I mean who they're pushing the hardest for lynches right now

[Bicephalous Bob]

1. He seems frustrated with the game in a way that I suspect is townish of him, specifically he seems annoyed with the lack of effort on behalf of town players. I sort of think he'd try to guilt us a bit less or a bit differently if he was scum. I developed this impression when I got into the kerfuffle with him about his accusing me of not reading.

I don't think this shtick is new to thor.

2. I know this is a minor thing, but scum have daychat in this setup. As I said to Acryon, I think if Thor were scum, he wouldn't let his buddies slack the way they've been slacking. I get the impression that everyone has been kind of half-assed this game. We've had so many replacements. I could hypothetically see a Thor/DXCVIguy scumteam, and early on I had thoughts of a Thor/Droog scumteam, but I just can't see him being scum with most of the players in this game.

I don't think thor would particularly mind this as long as they don't get in the way or attract a lot of heat.

3. When he started taking heat for making the game harder to read, it looks to me like he legitimately started trying not to, particularly sometime after I replaced in. He was huffy about it, and didn't say much about it, but he seemed to fade back a bit like asked. I think he could have been more disruptive while seeming townish and gotten away with it.

He was getting null-scumreads from everyone for it.

[Fink]

All fair points Bob, I don't disagree that Thor could concievably be scum. But that's why I don't think he is, that and the fact that everyone else is just so damn scummy. As I said, when we lynch scum if they look like thhey could have been a team with Thor, I'll reconsider. Until then, I'm not voting him.

I agree, I don't have a strong, concrete reason to think he's town, but I do.