Open 572: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem - Game Over

[Not_Mafia]

VC 4.07

Bicephalous Bob (1)-

Thor665

Phillammon (2)-

Dyslexicon, Fink

Shaddowez (0)-

Thor665 (1)-

Bicephalous Bob

droog (0)-

Fink (2)-

droog, Phillammon

Dyslexicon (0)-

Bert (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Shaddowez, Bert

With

8

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-10-21 20:00:00)

- Oct 21th 19:00 GMT

[Not_Mafia]

Bert replaces DCLXVI.

[Bicephalous Bob]

As for the fear mongering discussion: Your defense to Thor accusing you of fear mongering is terrible - it doesn't matter if the person you're accusing of something is actually guilty or not. Fear mongering is trying to use scare tactics to convince people of your cause, whether or not it's right. You seem to be trying to deflect Thor calling you out on that by telling him it's only fear mongering if he's what you're accusing him of being.

hmm okay but in thor's case my point still stands

I don't see town thor being held back by a comment like that and I don't think he'd think I'd think he would

[droog]

Droog

- At this point, do you think that it's more likely for Bob to be scum than Fink, or do you just think it

more likely for a Bob lynch than a Fink lynch?

scum > fink > bob

[Bicephalous Bob]

I've played one game with town thor and had a discussion with him about self-voters and mafia principles in md so I'd be surprised if I am most familiar with his play

[Thor665]

Give me another summary of your Blair case
Now that I have bob to compare by

I literally just did that for you three days ago in a conversation you flopped on like a wet blanket.
Would you mind participating? Your town shine has been long lost to me, and I'm having a hard time remembering why I had it in the first place - you're barely here.
Here's a quote with a case summation;

Blair is scum for choosing to always argue semantics rather than motive, using a double standard and, even after being caught doing so, just trying to act like it was okay even though she had no supportable reasoning for choosing to enact the double standard, and also for the awkward setup as concerns Dys (vis a vi the 'lynch me if she's scum comment)

Whassup?

Thor

- Who, other than Blair/Bob, are your current scum reads?

DCL - I've said this before a few times.

I've played one game with town thor and had a discussion with him about self-voters and mafia principles in md so I'd be surprised if I am most familiar with his play

Says the guy claiming info about how I'd react to the idea of L-1 and who also dropped the conversation thread like a hot potatoe when asked to back up what he's claiming to be convinced by.

[Bert]

Hi all. Bookmarked. Long time no see, Bob. I think I played with you in an old completed game called good morning's Playing Card and a few other oldies. good to see you around again!

I know Thor from A recent old pastgame called Runecast. Don't recognize anyone else from oldies.

Hi all. Bookmarked. Long time no see, Bob. I think I played with you in an old game called Playing Card and a few other oldies.

I know Thor from A recent old game called Runecast. Don't recognize anyone else from oldies.

Mobile post. See you tomorrow.

[droog]

I literally just did that for you three days ago in a conversation you flopped on like a wet blanket.
Would you mind participating? Your town shine has been long lost to me, and I'm having a hard time remembering why I had it in the first place - you're barely here.
Here's a quote with a case summation;

half of this has been a busy schedule
which i wont go any further into

i specifically wanted your case on blair in a more prominent spot so bob would have to see it
give me a day to mull it over.
im leaning toward agreeing with you now though.

[Dyslexicon]

Hi again.

First of all, the thing I like about Droog's case on Fink is his main point that he is "playing for the audience" so to speak. The specifics of the case doesn't convince me.

Droog, I also object to you saying I worked myself up to back Acryons lynch and empazising how scummy he looked. Do your job and check facts. I couldn't quite convince myself that Acryon was scum by the end of it. This is not the first time I've gotten the impression you're not reading things.

Bob looks a lot scummier than Blair to me, especially in the conversation with Thor. It read nervous and I don't even know what.

Still don't like Phil, but he is being more active which is good. I also noticed a sudden emotional change in one post, wonder what that's about. Eh.

Yeah. That's what I have. I'd entertain a Bob lynch now.

---

Welcom, Bert.

[Phillammon]

My point was that if anyone replaces in and then has suspiciously similar (as in PRECISELY similar) reads to the previous occupant to that slot, but with different thought processes stated, this might indicate that they were drawing those "reads" from a strategy post of some description in the scum QT.

I'm aware that I had a consistent town or at least consistent not-scumread on Blair but some of what Bob is saying is giving me pause. (This is outside of the replacement thing I just stated, I just feel like I could go back over that if I want to take a closer look at Bob later. For now, his slot still has inertia from Blair, though.

Dys, if you're talking about #978, I wasn't having a great day and had kinda got to the end of my wits with everything and ended up sort of venting. My apologies for that, I'll try not to let it happen again.

[Bicephalous Bob]

Hey bert!

My point was that if anyone replaces in and then has suspiciously similar (as in PRECISELY similar) reads to the previous occupant to that slot, but with different thought processes stated, this might indicate that they were drawing those "reads" from a strategy post of some description in the scum QT.

yeah

[Bicephalous Bob]

Says the guy claiming info about how I'd react to the idea of L-1 and who also dropped the conversation thread like a hot potatoe when asked to back up what he's claiming to be convinced by.

point me to the post where I claimed info on how you'd react to the idea of L-1

and I didn't do that: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59109

[Fink]

@Bob

I'm interested in what I think Thor's trying to get at, i.e. what

is

it about him that makes you think he wouldn't put something at L-1.

In our exchange the other day, you mentioned a talk with him about theory, but can you elaborate on that please?

And you said you believe he should have known this town was likely to quicklynch. Why should he have known that? What specifically in this game, and what in general indicate that to you?

[Fink]

Phil, I agree with this. But Bob's reads don't look the same as Blair's to me. What is it that looks like it came from a strategy post?

My point was that if anyone replaces in and then has suspiciously similar (as in PRECISELY similar) reads to the previous occupant to that slot, but with different thought processes stated, this might indicate that they were drawing those "reads" from a strategy post of some description in the scum QT.

[Fink]

Dys, if you're talking about #978, I wasn't having a great day and had kinda got to the end of my wits with everything and ended up sort of venting. My apologies for that, I'll try not to let it happen again.

@Phil:
This is what bothered

me

the other day too, when I said you got suddenly emotional. I'd thought we were starting to agree on some things and actually have a dialogue despite finding each other scummy and then you suddenly snapped. What set you off?

(I've been kind of at my wits' end with you and Droog for a while now too, but I've been starting to worry that hostility could be clouding both of us.)

@Everyone Else: I can't tell if
a) Everyone is sick of hearing me talk about Phil and isn't interested in anything I'm saying.
b) No one is clear on why I find Phil scummy because that's been lost along the way somewhere.
c) People get what I'm saying but have no interest in voting Phil today.
d) Other.

I'm debating trynig to write up a summary of thoughts about Phil, but is that something I should even bother with, or is it something no one wants to read, as is starting to be my impression?

[Phillammon]

That is unrelated to Bob, actually, but I find it interesting that you think it is. It was more related to replacements in general, and as I said, when I have a moment (ie probably Saturday sorry) I may look into thinks that seem suspicious over the replacements we've had so far. Of course now that I've said it I realize it's a bit WIFOMy just because they could go 180 on what the previous slot owner was thinking specifically to avoid that, or something like that, but hey, it's something.

PEdit: What set me off was completely unrelated to this site in general (when I say "everything" I mean everything here). I'd like to see a full summary if possible- a reframe would be a good way to get discussion going again, if that's what you want.

[Fink]

Regarding the Phil wagon:

Something that's made me slightly more confident on my scumread on Phil is just how slow his wagon is to get any votes on it, despite people expressing at least some agreement with me. I know some of this is probably due to the constant replacements, but it really feels to me like at most points there should have been another vote or two on him than there were. It's the opposite of fast moving. Could just be that I haven't explained myself enough, but I feel like I've been doing that

ad nauseum

. Could just be coincidence. But it doesn't do much to make me doubt myself.

[Fink]

That is unrelated to Bob, actually, but I find it interesting that you think it is.

Bob is the only recent replacement who has had any reads, and he's the topic of the thread right now. Why is it interesting that I'd think you were talking about Bob? New(est) guy hasn't said anything of substance yet, DCXwhatever has come and gone without you mentioning it, and I've been here for quite a while now.

Who were you talking about, and why is it surprising I assumed you meant Bob?

[Phillammon]

I was talking in general. As I said in the next sentence. It was just a thought I'd had. It would be applying to yourself, 666, Bob and Bert as soon as he speaks up with some substance.

[Fink]

the thing I like about Droog's case on Fink is his main point that he is "playing for the audience" so to speak.

@Dys: I've been struggling to get an explaination of this out of Droog: could you explain where and how I'm "playing for the audience"

specifically

. I think I've been more-or-less thinking out loud in my posts all game. Is there something different about the posts I made about Acryon? Is it just because Acryon turned out to be a mislynch? Or is it that people are now forgetting my posts on Blair, Phil, Thor, Shaddowez, or my initial catch-up posts?

How was my discussion of Acryon different from the thinking out loud I've been doing all game?

[Fink]

I was talking in general. As I said in the next sentence. It was just a thought I'd had. It would be applying to yourself, 666, Bob and Bert as soon as he speaks up with some substance.

Okay, but why is it insteresting that I thought you meant Bob?

[Fink]

Droog - At this point, do you think that it's more likely for Bob to be scum than Fink, or do you just think it more likely for a Bob lynch than a Fink lynch?

@Shaddowez: Droog is currently voting me, and was when you asked this. Why are you treating him as if he's voting for Bob? Why did you phrase the question this way?

[Bicephalous Bob]

I'm interested in what I think Thor's trying to get at, i.e. what is it about him that makes you think he wouldn't put something at L-1.

I'm not sure he wouldn't have done it, but I think the way he went about it was weird (I know I implied something else in 1008, but that was me getting fed up)

drawing strong reads from the first few pages and being unable to properly articulate them isn't a new issue for me

as bert and thor can attest, in playing card, I got a strong gut read on one scum after another flipped based on early interactions, but I got lynched before him and at least for some people on my wagon it was mainly because of this

I can see how you'd think this is an easy thing to hide behind, but my scum game is strong enough that I don't have to and I never have

[Fink]

@Bob

My page 2 reads are usually very gut-driven and abstract, so no.

It's totally fair for your page 2 reads to be gut-driven and abstract, but why is that what you choose to focus on the most when replacing into a game then? I know the walls were painful, I've reread them 3 fricking times at this point, but there's also a lot after the big wall arguement that you chose not to read? Have you ISO'd Thor since then? What do you think of his play around the Blair wagon?

don't ridicule me too much
1) you might accidentally peer-pressure people into voting me
that wouldn't be a bad thing if it didn't have any consequences, but 2) you'll definitely be lynched the day after me
3) I'd aim for another compromise and keep people doubting

1) Why do you think we'd vote for you because Thor ridicules you?
2) What is it with your slot and making promises about how the rest of us are going to lynch? Why would you think mislynching you would lead to lynching Thor? He's been voting your slot forever?
3) What does this even mean?

It's only fear mongering if you identify with the scum persona I fleshed out.

Your post was essentially addressed to

town

though. You don't want people to be peer-pressured by Thor into voting for you. And scum or town, would you expect Thor to unvote you because of empty threats?

What is it about Thor's response that makes you think he's identifying with the scum persona you described.

And address this please:

No one even questioned whether it was a good idea other than to be a bit slow about hammering the lynch?
And I *did* lambast them?

So...what sort of attitude did you expect and not see again?

[Fink]

I'm interested in what I think Thor's trying to get at, i.e. what is it about him that makes you think he wouldn't put something at L-1.

I'm not sure he wouldn't have done it, but I think the way he went about it was weird (I know I implied something else in 1008, but that was me getting fed up)

drawing strong reads from the first few pages and being unable to properly articulate them isn't a new issue for me

as bert and thor can attest, in playing card, I got a strong gut read on one scum after another flipped based on early interactions, but I got lynched before him and at least for some people on my wagon it was mainly because of this

I can see how you'd think this is an easy thing to hide behind, but my scum game is strong enough that I don't have to and I never have

I can understand getting fed up. But answer the question: Why

specifically

do you think Thor's putting someone at L-1 was weird?