Open 572: Nightless Vengeful Mayhem - Game Over

[Not_Mafia]

VC 4.10

Bicephalous Bob (3)-

Thor665, droog, Fink

(L-2)

Phillammon (0)-

Shaddowez (0)-

Thor665 (2)-

Bicephalous Bob, Dyslexicon

droog (0)-

Fink (1)-

Phillammon

Dyslexicon (0)-

Bert (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Shaddowez, Bert

With

8

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-10-21 20:00:00)

- Oct 21th 19:00 GMT

[Bicephalous Bob]

You have no meta of me, and are misrepresenting what I did and then claiming i makes me scum due to a made up meta in your own head.
This is not town thinking, this is a scum flail case.

I assessed your personality based on the game we played and the conversation we had in md

I came to the conclusion it's odd for you not to react to the newbie pleading for his life you're policy lynching based on that assessment

scum you doesn't have the same incentive to react to him so I think it's scummy

I don't get how this is confusing

2. I don't think I really did. I never town read him though, and was fine with the idea of running him up to L-1. I suppose you could say "since game start" but that's really in a "lack of town read" sort of way.
3. I dinged at his thoughts a bit, and found his approach to Blair iffy, but I don't think I ever particularly targeted him with anything. I don
t see how it matters though.

You did everything in your power to keep pressure from someone you didn't have a clear read on, while your interactions with literally everyone else were aimed at generating responses. Even the push on johnny was phrased as a suggestion to cheetory so there was nothing he had to react to.

[Not_Mafia]

Phillammon has been prodded, this is his third prod so I will begin seeking a replacement immediately.

[Phillammon]

So let's talk about the Bob/Blair slot. The TL;DR here is that I was unconvinced that Blair was scum, but basically every post that Bob makes makes me more and more convinced that the slot is in fact scum and Blair just had me completely fooled.

#983: Thor wants the day to end before he has to oppose the Johnny wagon. Which is why he started asking the questions that effectively kicked it off?
#985 is even worse for the same reasons. I'm not actually convinced that any reading was going on here, just skimming over a single player (that player being thor) and looking for things that look scummy out of context to quote them. More on this point later, actually.
#988: I don't blame him for scrolling through the walls. Or rather, I wouldn't, if they were ENTIRELY BETWEEN HIS OWN SLOT AND HIS TOP SCUMREAD. I mean I grant that I also all but ignored them but I thought that they were town infighting, not, yknow, instrumental to my case. Speaking of which, I need to go actually read those now, don't I.
#1004 actually straight up amuses me inasmuch as "i townread x" has been basically all that Bob has posted during the readback. I grant that these weren't after a "speech", but if three consecutive and coherent sentences constitutes a speech, I want to know what doesn't constitute a speech.
#1012: These "do you really think" questions are starting to alarm me at this point. Because I'm finding, almost invariably, that my answer is "Yes, I do", in spite of the attempts being made within the questions to make "Yes" sound ridiculous. In fact, the #1002 question is especially nice- yes, I do think that Fink would ask you to revisit it, because if you and Fink are both scum it's in your interests to revisit it as a "fresh pair of eyes" and declare him completely without fault.
#1035. More on this later.
#1088: There's astounding amounts of gut that are instrumental to your argument here, aren't there...
#1089: Bob: No true townThor would jump on to make L-1! Fink: Uh. Yes he does. *evidence*. Bob: Ah, but er um no true townThor would jump on to make L-1 non-spontaneously! (I admit that this does somewhat torpedo some of my existing reads unless there's bussing going on. And actually conflict with my point on #1002) Also, no, you didn't say it was a pure policy lynch. Except in #1084, where you called it a policy lynch and made it clear that there were obviously no other motivations. Yknow, because if there weren't any other motivations, your argument completely falls apart. (Actually, let's talk about #1089 with relation to #1084- Bob: Thor meta is relevant in some way! Fink: Here is thor meta that shows you are wrong. Bob: THAT thor meta doesn't count because reasons!)
#1098: Would that be the policy lynch that you are saying isn't a pure policy lynch? Because if there were any other motivations involved- say, multiple people with scumreads on him, even ignoring the quickhammer- again, your entire argument seems to come apart at the seams.
#1101: Okay newsflash Bob. IT WAS NOT A PURE POLICY LYNCH. You said this yourself, and you basically haven't got a leg to stand on if there were actual scumreads on him. Which there were. Also some of what you're saying straight up didn't happen, but kudos for trying for the emotive "newbie pleading for his life" phrasing there.

When I said more on this point later, this sort of relates to my replacement thing. Let's pretend, once upon a time, Blair had a post in a hypothetical Scum QT that said that they were trying to guide a mislynch onto Thor. Let's say, hypothetically, that while skimming said QT, Bob saw this post, and decided that he was going to pursue that lynch. Let's say, hypothetically, that he then proceeded to make a series of "catch up" posts that were designed to try and paint Thor in as bad a light as possible- say, by exclusively quoting him out of context and in one case what appears to be outright lying about what was going on.

This doesn't sound far-fetched enough for me to ignore anymore.

UNVOTE: with intent to vote Bob, pending me digging up a VC to check where it would put him.

PEdit: Well goddamnit. Am I still allowed to post here?

[Not_Mafia]

Yes. But you should be careful about incurring a fourth prod though.

[droog]

So let's talk about the Bob/Blair slot. The TL;DR here is that I was unconvinced that Blair was scum, but basically every post that Bob makes makes me more and more convinced that the slot is in fact scum and Blair just had me completely fooled.

me too
iF bob is scum, thor is town
if not i want to stop making compromise lynches and get fink tomorrow

[Thor665]

I came to the conclusion it's odd for you not to react to the newbie pleading for his life you're policy lynching based on that assessment

Please describe the assessment logic as best you are able.
I do not believe it happened, so want to hear it described.

When I said more on this point later, this sort of relates to my replacement thing. Let's pretend, once upon a time, Blair had a post in a hypothetical Scum QT that said that they were trying to guide a mislynch onto Thor. Let's say, hypothetically, that while skimming said QT, Bob saw this post, and decided that he was going to pursue that lynch. Let's say, hypothetically, that he then proceeded to make a series of "catch up" posts that were designed to try and paint Thor in as bad a light as possible- say, by exclusively quoting him out of context and in one case what appears to be outright lying about what was going on.

I think Bob is scum, but I don't think this makes sense.
What is the other scumbuddy doing if this is the case?

[Phillammon]

If my theory is accurate? Pointing out the inconsistencies and bussing Bob (say, what Fink is doing (along with most of the playerbase I admit but I'm still pretty confident about this one)(actually I should look at YYR/Blair eralier on come to think), and in general doing damage control.

[Thor665]

I'll agree that any buddy pretty much must be doing that now - but if they had a plan to mislynch me why leave only one scum out to do it?

[Bicephalous Bob]

to phil: my reads are mostly gut-driven in that I often see things as scummy before I can explain why

I do believe there's always a reason my gut is triggered and I feel like just saying "it's gut" is a cop-out

my first read-through of forty pages was done in thirty non-consecutive minutes

thor's L-1 vote immediately seemed forced to me, but I didn't attribute it to the right thing

I admitted this before fink brought up the evidence

-----

"speech" is in reference to the tone of thor's L-1 reaction testing being the opposite of the tone of "I townread droog"

as for 1089, I'd already admitted that argument was wrong before fink gave that evidence

I even say so in the post

it not being a pure policy lynch doesn't have anything to do with it

he was being lynched for something that's dumb to do as either alignment

I don't think geurts was emotional about it, but he still obviously expected a second chance

-----

as for your argument on 1012, oh great, lazy associative tells

also please reread day 1, pay attention to thor's tone when interacting to different people and tell me what you think of this:

You did everything in your power to keep pressure from someone you didn't have a clear read on, while your interactions with literally everyone else were aimed at generating responses. Even the push on johnny was phrased as a suggestion to cheetory so there was nothing he had to react to.

-----

Please describe the assessment logic as best you are able.
I do not believe it happened, so want to hear it described.

if an anti-town person requests something that's in your eyes unreasonable on a subject you have extensive theories on (geurts, second chance, dealing with anti-town people, respectively), you respond to it

I'd expect most people to do this, but you in particular because you're quickly irritated by anti-town people, you're on a crusade to make all anti-town play disappear, you're very vocal about your opinions, you don't want to be seen as the bad guy socially and you're really attached to your own arguments.

[Thor665]

Okay, you have established that I have opinions and often offer them.
I am not seeing the connection to what I didn't offer thoughts on or how that would make me scum since I, as far as I'm aware, point out poor play regardless of my alignment.

[Bert]

Long weekend.

Bob who is your other scumread outside of Thor? Most people just discount gut-based arguments, and ones based on one past game.

[Bicephalous Bob]

my case has evolved past gut

my other non-townreads aren't exactly scumreads

I still think dys, droog and your slot are town, but I wouldn't be comfortable voting anyone but thor

Okay, you have established that I have opinions and often offer them.
I am not seeing the connection to what I didn't offer thoughts on or how that would make me scum since I, as far as I'm aware, point out poor play regardless of my alignment.

asking for a second chance wasn't poor play?

I think you didn't react to his request because

I'd expect most people to do this, but you in particular because

you're quickly irritated by anti-town people

, you're on a crusade to make all anti-town play disappear, you're very vocal about your opinions,

you don't want to be seen as the bad guy socially

and

you're really attached to your own arguments

.

you miss the bold incentives as scum

phil what do you think of a dys+me scumteam?

[Phillammon]

Honestly, I could buy it. I still like a Bob/Fink team a lot more right at this second, but fortunately, those two potential scumteams have a common link.

[Phillammon]

I'd like to express intent to put Bob at L-1, unless any objections are raised.

[droog]

It's l-1go ahead
In hindsight
Fast lunches would've stopped this game from stalling

[Phillammon]

VOTE: Bicephalous Bob

[Bicephalous Bob]

phil:

also please reread day 1, pay attention to thor's tone when interacting to different people and tell me what you think of this:

You did everything in your power to keep pressure from someone you didn't have a clear read on, while your interactions with literally everyone else were aimed at generating responses. Even the push on johnny was phrased as a suggestion to cheetory so there was nothing he had to react to.

[Bicephalous Bob]

that someone is also johnny

I'll rephrase it so you guys won't forget:

In RVS, thor did everything in his power to keep the pressure low in his interactions with johnny, whom he didn't have a clear read on, while his interaction with literally everyone else were aimed at blandly generating responses. Even his push johnny was phrased as a suggestion to cheetory so johnny wouldn't have to defend himself.

[Bicephalous Bob]

uhm

In RVS, thor did everything in his power to keep the pressure low in his interactions with johnny, whom he didn't have a clear read on, while his interactions with literally everyone else were aimed at blandly generating responses. Even his push on johnny was phrased as a suggestion to cheetory so johnny wouldn't have to defend himself.

[droog]

could you support that with quotes to specific posts?
maybe you have already but that is a more compelling case
than anything youve said so far

[shaddowez]

uhm

In RVS, thor did everything in his power to keep the pressure low in his interactions with johnny, whom he didn't have a clear read on, while his interactions with literally everyone else were aimed at blandly generating responses. Even his push on johnny was phrased as a suggestion to cheetory so johnny wouldn't have to defend himself.

Thor barely addressed anyone outside of Cheetory and Blair before the end of D1. How do his interactions with Johnny make any more of a connection than his interactions with anybody else?

Fast lunches would've stopped this game from stalling

I agree with this wholeheartedly...not saying we should be quicklynching people, but waiting until almost deadline every time is making this game drag.

Bob seems to be tunneling on Thor, which is something that Blair may have been doing but I saw it more as a discussion with her. I'm still thinking that's a town slot, though many of Bob's posts have me questioning that. I think I'm still more inclined for a Phil lynch than a Bob lynch right now, but I don't want there to be a no lynch either (even with no NK, that just stalls the game out even more). I'll place my vote back on Phil, but will hammer Bob tomorrow night if it hasn't been done already, or if other things haven't changed.

VOTE: Phil

Also, the hesitation to have Bob at L-1 and then the revote when somebody else gave the okay, along with the following quote, makes me wonder if there's the possibility of a Phil/Bob team.

So let's talk about the Bob/Blair slot. The TL;DR here is that I was unconvinced that Blair was scum, but basically every post that Bob makes makes me more and more convinced that the slot is in fact scum and Blair just had me completely fooled.

[Bicephalous Bob]

Thor barely addressed anyone outside of Cheetory and Blair before the end of D1. How do his interactions with Johnny make any more of a connection than his interactions with anybody else?

because his interactions with johnny are connecting them and the non-existent interactions aren't?

I don't expect town thor to try and generate responses from everyone, but I do expect him to not go soft on one particular player who he did often interact with

I mean, he was direct even in his interactions with players he didn't talk much to

droog, post 77 contains both the indirect push and the contrasting conversational way of talking to johnny

other than that, just read page 2 to 4

[Fink]

I'm V/LA for an indefinite amount of time.

My laptop has decided it doesn't like to boot up anymore. Not sure how long it will take me to fix it, but don't have time to focus on it much this week. Until then I'm posting from my girlfriend's laptop in coffee shops. I'll still attempt to post at least daily, and if she's nice I might be able have some entire days where I can be online and doing things. But I can no longer guarantee that I won't have a sudden lack-of-internet for a few days, so I'm going V/LA.

I'll let you guys know when I have a more permanent solution.

[Fink]

Holy crap, Shaddowez just voted Phil.

I'll say more/catch up tomorrow, but for now

VOTE: Phil