NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

AxleGreaser
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Post Post #2275  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:02 am

In post 2272, Muffin wrote:thank you


Well you have degree in town planning, and that a process I respect and understand.
So of course i needed to answer your question, when it didn't cut across anything I was doing at the time

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Post Post #2276  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:57 am

In post 2264, Flubbernugget wrote:Egg is hard town for keeping up with the game, and for overall strong scumhunting.

Where do I find examples of said strong scumhunting?

@Tiershift what made you want to join this game?

Aegor asking me. And later I saw gm saying she was in the game which reminded me that I wanted to play as well so I signed up.
I've not been great, I know, sorry. Maybe I'll effort tonight.

Slandaar
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Post Post #2277  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:50 am

In post 2262, Egg wrote:And you are voting him. So you actually ARE assuming two scum teams now?

I mean that does make sense; Calling Thor scum for saying it's multiball insinuating Thor has inside knowledge. For this to hold you will start to assume multiball.

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Post Post #2278  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:39 am

In post 2277, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2262, Egg wrote:And you are voting him. So you actually ARE assuming two scum teams now?

I mean that does make sense; Calling Thor scum for saying it's multiball insinuating Thor has inside knowledge. For this to hold you will start to assume multiball.



At the time I asked this question PereV was voting Thor...
In post 1647, AxleGreaser wrote:@PereV
What is your current belief in how likely this game is to be multiball?
Why?


by the time he answered completely why
he had changed his vote to Scripten

The original Thor vote was for me too early to be a towny like survival vote, as the latest vote on Aneninen is (seems)

as such i kinda figured, that if the Thor read was real (and believed), then an explanation of the likelyhood of MB would draw on the evidence that Thor supposedly slipped.
and that at some points PereV was this sure that if game MB then 100% thor slipped and is scum
(Which ought also translate a bit as if Thor is scum he slipped and it is MB.)

In post 1557, PeregrineV wrote:6. No mistake. I still believe that if there are 2 scumteams, Thor is likely scum (this was the initial thought- now that has gone up to 100% chance).


needed to post this before I lost probably my best original reasons for being on this wagon.

If PereV flips anti town, my bet is SK.
(while the wagon isnt going anywhere, I dont really sense buddies, or full on counter wagons, but can imagine I see indistinct scum scurrying away from what think may be a townie lynch.)

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Post Post #2279  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:51 am

To be honest assume was the wrong word; it will be considered more possible than what he would normally think which might cloud things.

I will have to look into what you said later I have thought about it but basically I need to look at the whole conversation thread.

But PV isn't an SK - the argument on Thor doesn't make sense from an SK because SK will assume one scumteam thus Thor's multiball comment doesn't look like a slip at all and there is no reason to fake scumreads as an SK.

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Post Post #2280  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:14 am

In post 2258, beastcharizard wrote:He did nothing. And that is the truth.

inb4 "AMISHED OMG"

Null read, ftr.

In post 2266, davesaz wrote:
In post 2254, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2195, davesaz wrote:
In post 2144, goodmorning wrote:The only agenda I have, as either alignment, is to figure things out.
I don't come into questioning intending anything else.

This does not quite ring true. Sure, maybe at a high level you're figuring things out, but that's not the only factor in deciding whether to enter a discussion and how. Scum can and do butt in when a townie is after their buddy, for example. Disrupting the questioning process is a way to help a buddy without openly defending them. So information gathering as the explanation for entering a discussion is really shallow.

I began the questioning process, so I'm really not sure where you're going with this.

You are saying things that are not true. (Unless it is true that you never have an agenda, do you really mean that?)
Why does this need to be explained?
What alignment says things that aren't true?

Apparently we aren't speaking the same language. What I was bolding is above. It is not even slightly the same as what you were bolding.
(Oh, and as for "helping a buddy..." I rarely do so. I had a bad habit of always "townreading" them but I've broken that. They can sink or swim on their own, and attempting to help them only gets you dragged down too. I am a bit bossy in QT usually though.)

@VC: I love vanity voting more than anyone else, but the time has come; Slandaar, Anen, Muffin, Grayfox, beast, and dave should probably pick a wagon.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #2281  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:14 am

In post 2242, The Fonz wrote:Obviously not, as you haven't supplied it like I asked.

I did a few posts back.
In post 2242, The Fonz wrote:I'm in the 'Don't lynch claimed PRs D1, unless there's a CC or hilariously bad fakeclaim' camp. These things work themselves out. See Simpsons Mafia as an example of why that's the case. The miller thing is basically a theory distraction, but essentially: I used to believe in lynching all claimed millers, but so many people believed millers should claim day one, and scum didn't fake miller as much as they should, so I stopped doing that. I specifically believe this specific claim to look more like the premature derp of a poor player than any kind of gambit.

So, the answer is no unless there is a cc or terrible fake claim. I don't think you can rely on things sorting themselves out. I lynch PR claims D1 quite often it works out well for me.

Not that it really matters, the point is that obviously town and scum alike often lynch claimed PR's D1 this means a generic statement of scum wouldn't try to lynch claimed PR's is obviously wrong and I believe GM knows this.

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Post Post #2282  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:15 am

In post 2281, Slandaar wrote:I lynch PR claims D1 quite often it works out well for me.

Not that it really matters, the point is that obviously town and scum alike often lynch claimed PR's D1 this means a generic statement of scum wouldn't try to lynch claimed PR's is obviously wrong and I believe GM knows this.

Just because you would doesn't mean most people would.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

Get to know a very pleasant AM.

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Post Post #2283  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:16 am

In post 2279, Slandaar wrote:To be honest assume was the wrong word; it will be considered more possible than what he would normally think which might cloud things.

I will have to look into what you said later I have thought about it but basically I need to look at the whole conversation thread.

But PV isn't an SK - the argument on Thor doesn't make sense from an SK because SK will assume one scumteam thus Thor's multiball comment doesn't look like a slip at all and there is no reason to fake scumreads as an SK.


The conversation definitely needs looking at, I had hoped when I went fishing for a clearer tell, what i got is what I got.

AFAIK, the problem with PereV over that is this.

During the time when PereV was voting, Thor
do you believe he was legitimately scum hunting him or was he already that early in the day voting him more because it was a survival thing.

Is the lack of any reference to how it might be MB, because Thor slipped it, indicative that PereV really didnt seriously consider Thor scum?
A reasonable explanation is PereV was just being nice to me and giving me a backgrounder in site Meta in general.
The question is what is how plausible.

re probability of SK.
SK has to do anything everyone else who is not trying to get lynched does.
In the case of PereV or Thor being scum they will still have to impersonate their towny game or get lynched as scum... yeah?

Not making too many waves, would be a thing. But PereV failing to tackle Thors alignment as serious question would have raised my suspicions.
So yes PereV had to at some time to some extent prod and poke at Thor for scumminess.

The scumminess of comes for me in two bits.
Where did the boonskies read come from?
Also why did the push on Thor get lost in a list post.
That not where i would make it if i wanted to find out about it. That looks like place to make it forget it, and then be able to say later look I was suspicious of Thor...

Spoiler: another not serious exchange
In post 385, PeregrineV wrote:I know it's only page2, but I so liked it!

In post 36, Thor665 wrote:I now support Csaro's lynch also.

Scripten's drunk post is also a policy lynch.

People should vote one or the other, my RVS stage is over.

I found Csaro's post refreshingly direct. What about them makes you want to lynch him?

Since when have drunk posts been a policy lynch?

In post 393, PeregrineV wrote:
2. Since always, for me.

I'll keep an eye out for that, since I see quite a few of them.

Not sure how to interpret that, but PereV did not seem to keep an eye out for drunk posts...
and not sure what he could do or say if he had.
Here is Thor not noticing or commenting on a drunk post....
In post 1431, Thor665 wrote:The urge to crack further jokes here is strong.
Because you got the names wrong again.

Whatevs.

I never really got the feel the PereV Thor interaction got more for real than that. At least one of them did not seem to have their heart in it.

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Post Post #2284  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:16 am

GM while you did your little dance earlier you never managed to answer this and I would like you to:
In post 2157, Slandaar wrote:You don't think a scum agenda is to look active? or to look town?

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Post Post #2285  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:32 am

I think PV felt is was possible Thor 'slipped' and considered it a strong possibility that if the game is multiball Thor is scum. You don't really need to make a big deal about it as you can wait a day or two when you know if it is or isn't leaving it in a reads list is no problem.

Then Thor goes after him for it, PV produces meta showing in his experience generally this sized game isn't multiball, Thor misreps PV by saying he should include SK's in the numbers and then from there PV is obviously going to suspect Thor - I also strongly disagree it was obvious Thor was using the term multi-ball to include SK's (backs up the above)

So, yes I think PV thought Thor is scum when he was voting him/was scumhunting him.

The argument about MB I need to look at a bit but basically I thought he was mostly arguing what he assumed the setup would be based on his experience because that was really what the argument was about. As said I need to look at your conversation thread as that does look different.

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Post Post #2286  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:36 am

In post 2284, Slandaar wrote:GM while you did your little dance earlier you never managed to answer this and I would like you to:
In post 2157, Slandaar wrote:You don't think a scum agenda is to look active? or to look town?

Maybe for some people, but for me looking active doesn't matter and looking Town just comes along with figuring out the game; if you figure it out and make valid observations, people are going to townread you, even if the Scum you catch are Town.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #2287  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:39 am

In post 2285, Slandaar wrote:Thor misreps PV by saying he should include SK's in the numbers

:neutral:
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Post Post #2288  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:56 am

In post 2285, Slandaar wrote:I think PV felt is was possible Thor 'slipped' and considered it a strong possibility that if the game is multiball Thor is scum. You don't really need to make a big deal about it as you can wait a day or two when you know if it is or isn't leaving it in a reads list is no problem.

Then Thor goes after him for it, PV produces meta showing in his experience generally this sized game isn't multiball, Thor misreps PV by saying he should include SK's in the numbers and then from there PV is obviously going to suspect Thor - I also strongly disagree it was obvious Thor was using the term multi-ball to include SK's (backs up the above)

So, yes I think PV thought Thor is scum when he was voting him/was scumhunting him.

The argument about MB I need to look at a bit but basically I thought he was mostly arguing what he assumed the setup would be based on his experience because that was really what the argument was about. As said I need to look at your conversation thread as that does look different.



Thats fine but I dont see the vote of Thor, for rather long time, so it seems like it needs to have something else.
My read of his ISO after that point does not read like person convinced that who they are voting is scum.
The argument continues to be about why PereV is not scum and Thors case is wrong... not about why Thor is scum for the case...

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Post Post #2289  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:16 am

Right. I have 4-5 hours during which I will be able to devote quite a lot of attention to this game (I have at this point not read anything subsequent to my last post). Then I will have no access until Monday evening at the earliest. My current plan is to take another swing at understanding TSO/Anen/Axle. If anyone wants to suggest an alternative angle of investigation that would be as/more productive, please feel free.

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Post Post #2290  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:45 am

Axle, once again, I can't read spoiler tags from my phone. Please stop using them.

Slandaar, not the point. Pere has been saying all along that he thinks there is one team and a SK unless I'm remembering wrong. Why did you feel the need to answer for him?

Goodmorning, that's not even Amished because he's not complaining or attacking heph. Why did you feel the need to shoot it down before it was brought up?

Fonz, I'd be interested in a detailed look at Thor, Pere, and Aneninen.

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Post Post #2291  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:48 am

In post 2290, Egg wrote:Goodmorning, that's not even Amished because he's not complaining or attacking heph. Why did you feel the need to shoot it down before it was brought up?

Saying "he didn't do shit" isn't complaining or attacking?
Then why do I feel so complained about and attacked when people accuse me of not doing shit?

Because Amished is a shit tell that doesn't work is why.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
Calling On Dragons coming eventually!

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Post Post #2292  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:52 am

I only accuse you on not doing Smurf.

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Post Post #2293  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:04 am

In post 2287, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2285, Slandaar wrote:Thor misreps PV by saying he should include SK's in the numbers

:neutral:
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

What word?

Misrep? I think that is the first time I used it.

PV clearly was using multiball to mean games with 2 scumteams therefore suggesting he should include SK's is a misrepresentation of what he is saying.

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Post Post #2294  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:08 am

In post 2246, TierShift wrote:I just read egg's walls.
In post 2063, Egg wrote:
Tier wrote:I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it


This is the kind of thing I'd expect Pere's scumbuddies to be saying right about now.

Is this the basis for your scumread on me?
I don't understand why exactly pere's buddies would say this and why town wouldn't.

Also associatives before the flip suck monkey nuts!

egg, response?

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Post Post #2295  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:09 am

Goodmorning, Beast seems to think it's funny to do nothing. Or he just has fun with it for some reason. Either way, coming from him, it's more bragging than it is complaining. Just wait. He'll be here as long as the slot is alive without ever replacing out, but you won't ever see a full effort post. What we've seen so far is about what we can expect.

Slandaar, why did you feel the need to answer for Pere?

Preview edit: see my post yesterday

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Post Post #2296  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:10 am

Tier, Post 2262

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Post Post #2297  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:14 am

Right, you didn't like me asking boonskiies to claim, which I covered already. Other than that, you talked about my read on scripten which used inadmissible meta. There is nothing else.

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Post Post #2298  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:33 am

In post 2293, Slandaar wrote:
In post 2287, Thor665 wrote:
In post 2285, Slandaar wrote:Thor misreps PV by saying he should include SK's in the numbers

:neutral:
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

What word?

Misrep? I think that is the first time I used it.

PV clearly was using multiball to mean games with 2 scumteams therefore suggesting he should include SK's is a misrepresentation of what he is saying.

Well...first off, step away from the keyboard and take a breath, your life is currently empty.
Go, illegally download, or Netflix stream, or go rent 'The Princess Bride'.
Go watch the movie - have a life become full of wonder, joy, and happiness, then return.
You are welcome.

In other news - I can't misrep what Pere was saying - because *he was making claims about what I was saying when he said that stuff*.
He was trying to understand me.
I can't misrep him by pointing out what I meant.

What you are saying literally makes no sense, and what you are now arguing with me makes less.
I don't even want this to go anywhere, particularly, because I don't think it much matters. But you should probably do a double check on how you analyze things in a generic sene if this is where you're at in discerning info from those events.

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Post Post #2299  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:40 am

I mean, if I misrepped him via your definition - he misrepped me first (also twice, by claiming I'd never provided a player number).

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