Newbie 1546: Binary Trolls (Game Over!)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Btw Blue in post 420 you said "scrap that Nether is town"

Did one post really make you do a 180 turn ?

No, I ISO'd him.

[Netherspite]

And then another single post made you doing another 180 turn?

[Bulbazak]

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Vote Count

TGGC (0):
Netherspite (3): TGGC, Toolenduso, BlueBloodedToffee
Toolenduso (0):
JohnnyFarrar (0):
Shiro (2): Netherspite, JohnnyFarrar
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Luca Blight
Luca Blight (0):
VictorDeAngelo (0):
GuyInFreezer (0):

Not Voting (3): VictorDeAngelo, GuyInFreezer, Shiro

It is day 1. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day ends on Sunday, November 2 at 11:30pm EST. Countdown: (expired on 2014-11-02 23:30:00).

[toolenduso]

So basically you consider players town just because they're "too scummy to be scum"?

No. I'm saying that:

-Toffee isn't making an effort to look towny like I would expect scum to do.
-Shiro's vote on TGGC looks like a risky move that I wouldn't expect newbscum to make.

I'm starting to get crazy thought that the scum in my wagon is toolenduso, just because of his reasoning for townreads and

that weird attempt to push townie despite being said that he's wrong.

I do not understand the bolded part. Who's the townie you're referring to? And who said that who is wrong?

[Netherspite]

I am that townie and the one who said you that you're wrong is JohnnyFarrar. Read his posts above.

[Netherspite]

Also, I don't make efforts to look towny. So?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Spoiler: I said I'd be back in the afternoon

234 - At least TGGC reads the game up (unlike some people) and I like some of reasoning here. That said the post sort of feels like he read the start of the game, got bored and then just put out the reads.

237 - Another post where Luca was this close to voting Shiro but TGGC just gets in the way. Odd that Luca describes Shiro as a nullread when TGGC puts her at scum or useless town, and calls Nether a scumread when he was only listed as leaning scum.

243 - Johnny, When you do this sort of catchup include post numbers so I quickly work out what your referring to.

251 - Johnny's defense is Shiro is terrible.

258 - I'm also sceptical that anyone could think that a conversation on buddying would so intimidating that newbies would run from the game. Especially since one of the slots involved was a newbie slot.

260 - And why doesn't he vote TGGC himself now he knows he isn't at L-1? Johnny jumps to my #2 scumread in page. Congrats.

261 - Way to dodge commenting on the TGGC wagon BlueBloodedToffee.

263 - And I want to policy lynch you for being a scouser

264 - Nether, you should combine it with this post and think about those annoying phone messages that make you wait.

265 - Hey, Johnny why didn't provide examples of scummy play here?

278 - TGGC not knowing Carli claimed vt sort of looks better I guess, since he didn't worry about checking if his predecessor claimed anything (which scum would probably would have) but he didn't notice all the discussion about the vt which confirms he didn't really read much beyond the start of the game.

281 - Tool's patience here is good if TGGC is town and suspicious if TGGC scum.

285 - There's something off here.

291 - Yeah no, this slot is scum. Might have to reassess other rereads too.

293 - How close to the deadline was this post made. Cause the panic suggests the deadline was a day away or something. Not sure how I feel about Nether after the last few posts but I'm going put that on the backburner for the time being.

297 - It occurs to me that you went your way to avoid voting before he was L-1 and then you say stuff like this.

301 - What? Doc is pretty much the goto fakeclaim of scum. Your explanation makes no sense.

303 - That's not true.

305 - One in four as opposed to one in six. That could be a scumslip....hmmm.

306 - I feel uneasy about performing vca without a flip. Nether seems to trust the claim too readily but then everyone else is a little bit trusting of it as well. His thought process is quite well reasoned though. I'm going put the conflicted feelings down to Nether being newbtown - mostly because I have liked his play up until this point.

310 - This doesn't line up with 301 at all.

311 - So Tool looks at the Nether posts and despite him having a town explanation goes down the possible Nether is scum route because.... 274 looked bad. I think I'm going push you back to null.

315 - Wait, why is Nether ISOing himself here? Did I miss something. I'm going skip the content and just worry about the fact that Nether is ISOing himself for no reason. I'm starting to see where this wagon on him came from.

317 - And why the fuck Shiro egging him on?

323 - Surprising amount townreads here. Essentially amounts to scumreading players she doesn't expect to defend themselves (MIAs).

Whoop and that's where I came into the game. Which means I list reads.

GiF - Town - Prior dissappearing GiF was pretty doing everything I would town to do day 1 - asking questions/analysing play and was pretty happy to form townreads and vote.

Nether - Lean Town - If not for the last few pages it would have been strong townread. Got right in scumhunting from the off and has active yet clear throughout.

Tool - Null - Fallen into the background a lot but some good stuff/some bad.

BluebloodedToffee - Null - Not enough from him or his predecessor to really make a call right now.

Luca - Lean scum - Nothing more than an odd observation here or there but he hasn't done much to look town and there small suspicions add up.

TGGC - Lean scum but can wait - It's generally bad play to lynch an unCCed doc day 1 but I still suspicous of the slot. Should be easy to decide as the game goes on.

Johnny - Lean scum - No opinion on predecessor but some his posting has just looked really off.

Shiro - Scum - I made point after point about Shiro.


VOTE: Shiro

I'll use a new post to respond to newer stuff. Sit tight folks.

[Shiro]

I called it from your first post. In any case anyone up for putting me at L-1?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Shiro, can you not ask for votes on yourself please.

Thanks.

VDA, that's a bad vote.

Let's lynch Nether instead.

[VictorDeAngelo]

VDA it is the avatar. I mean look at it. Would you really lynch this adorableness ?

Yes, yes I would.

Victor, my thinking in 188 wasn't 'bizarre' at all, what is bizarre is how you've somehow managed to read the opposite of what that post said. Re-read it and you will find I never said Carli was a policy lynch to try and clear Shiro, I was saying it would make sense for scum, at that point, not to hop on any wagon too prematurely, as it seemed as though a Carli lynch was inevitable.

Huh, guess I was misunderstanding the first paragraph. I guess put together with 186 my mind jumped to you defending Carli only to turn around and say "but I don't mind voting her" at the end. Still if you think Carli was scum would the first paragraph matter at all?

Shiro, can you not ask for votes on yourself please.

Thanks.

VDA, that's a bad vote.

Let's lynch Nether instead.

Sure, if you can explain to me why lynching a townread is better than a scumread I'm all for it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK. You should stop town-reading Nether because of the reason I am voting him for.

Now that you have gone and checked why I'm voting him (go check) you will see he is scum, correct?

Good. Vote Nether please.

[toolenduso]

I don't know, I don't like how she had posted (welcoming the replacements into the game) then Toffee asked why she wasn't voting, and she just basically complied and voted straight away.

I see what you mean, but to her credit there were other people questioning why she wasn't voting before Toffee and TGGC replaced in (#143, #188) and she didn't vote then.

Also to her credit, she said in the previous page (#176) that Carli replacing out would be a red flag for her.

Why hadn't she voted in that initial post if that was her genuine intention when Carli replaced out? She also asked a question to TGGC to explain Carli's actions after her vote, putting him at L-1 before he'd even started. Why didn't she ask him before the vote to try and gauge his reaction?

These are good points, and part of the reason I'm not totally sold on Shiro being town.

You wonder why would scumShiro make that vote, I'm failing to see why TownShiro would.

It makes sense to me in the context of this being Shiro's first game on MS as town. It's weird play but I can easily see it being done in that context.

[toolenduso]

I am that townie and the one who said you that you're wrong is JohnnyFarrar. Read his posts above.

So...you think that I should stop voting for a scumread because other people think I'm wrong about that scumread?

[VictorDeAngelo]

OK. You should stop town-reading Nether because of the reason I am voting him for.

Now that you have gone and checked why I'm voting him (go check) you will see he is scum, correct?

Good. Vote Nether please.

Your reason is one point and I don't really want to start lynching people for a single thing. It could easily be a newbie being too open (and it's not as if Nether was panicing about getting a lynch before then).

As for vote on Shiro - why exactly do you think Shiro isn't scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't explain town-reads.

Why do you think Shiro is scum?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I don't explain town-reads.

Why not? You want me to change my vote right?

Why do you think Shiro is scum?

Have you been reading my posts BBT?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have, but catch-up posts are just too easy to make look pro-town.

So, let's have a summary of your reasons for voting Shiro.

[Netherspite]

305 - One in four as opposed to one in six. That could be a scumslip....hmmm.

If scum has a roleblocker then there is no setup where doc can't be CCed so they wouldn't fake claim in this case.
iirc it was discussed in the posts around it.

315 - Wait, why is Nether ISOing himself here? Did I miss something. I'm going skip the content and just worry about the fact that Nether is ISOing himself for no reason. I'm starting to see where this wagon on him came from.

Because I said in the beginning that I'll explain all my questions and their results.

So...you think that I should stop voting for a scumread because other people think I'm wrong about that scumread?

You didn't refute his arguments so I assumed that you agree with them.
It would be logical to find someone more scummy in that case.

@VictorDeAngelo

Since you have more experience, do you think that

BlueBloodedToffee

's manner to scumhunt (random voting people for lurking or single post, not giving any explanations besides weak ones for his random votes) is okay for townie? I just don't understand how this can be considered a good townplay.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You trying to assess if there is support for you to switch your vote Nether?

That's pretty scummy.

[Netherspite]

I didn't intent to switch my vote.
I just wonder why do you do such weird things. Why are you trying to get suspicion? There's no Jester in this game. Is there any profit for you in getting lynched? I don't think so. So why are you playing against the town then?

[toolenduso]

I don't explain town-reads.

OK, this is actually starting to bug me. This makes no sense and I feel like you're clinging to an arbitrary rule for no reason other than that it's a rule. Here's your reasoning for not explaining town reads:

Explaining town-reads accomplishes nothing. Anybody can fake a town-read, whereas it's a lot more difficult for scum to fabricate a scum-read. Therefore, I like people to explain their scum-reads rather than me explain a town-read.

OK, so that's a reason not to explain townreads

unless somebody asks you to.

If explaining townreads doesn't accomplish anything, why not just humor the people who are asking you and do it? Is there some downside to explaining townreads I'm not seeing here?

There is a point to explaining townreads, because scum have to fake townreads just as much as they have to fake scumreads -- they have to make townreads look like they're coming from scumhunting and not from actual knowledge of the person's alignment.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I have, but catch-up posts are just too easy to make look pro-town.

So, let's have a summary of your reasons for voting Shiro.

I don't asking you to use it to determine my alignment, I'm asking you to use to see why I'm voting Shiro.

PEdit:

305 - One in four as opposed to one in six. That could be a scumslip....hmmm.

If scum has a roleblocker then there is no setup where doc can't be CCed so they wouldn't fake claim in this case.
iirc it was discussed in the posts around it.

Scum may claim doc to lure out a CC - particularly if TGGC was resigned to the lynch.

315 - Wait, why is Nether ISOing himself here? Did I miss something. I'm going skip the content and just worry about the fact that Nether is ISOing himself for no reason. I'm starting to see where this wagon on him came from.

Because I said in the beginning that I'll explain all my questions and their results.

But why do this?

@VictorDeAngelo

Since you have more experience, do you think that

BlueBloodedToffee

's manner to scumhunt (random voting people for lurking or single post, not giving any explanations besides weak ones for his random votes) is okay for townie? I just don't understand how this can be considered a good townplay.

In a newbie game I think a more detail orientated posting is better, but that's not the way everyone plays and I've probably got towngames even in this forum where I've thrown out naked votes. Still people have different styles and I won't comment on how effective it is until I see results.

PPEdit: I'll deal with the other posts in a minute.

[toolenduso]

You didn't refute his arguments so I assumed that you agree with them.

You are going to have a hard time playing mafia if you actually think this is true.

Also, could you point me to the post where Johnny refuted my points against Nether?

[Netherspite]

Scum may claim doc to lure out a CC - particularly if TGGC was resigned to the lynch.

Personally I'd exchange 1 PR for 1 scum. May be I'm wrong because of lack of experience though.

But why do this?

I don't like to use the "common routes" and I'm experimenting with my way to scumhunt.
I do this so people see my thought process and comment on it. I find these comments useful.

In a newbie game I think a more detail orientated posting is better, but that's not the way everyone plays and I've probably got towngames even in this forum where I've thrown out naked votes. Still people have different styles and I won't comment on how effective it is until I see results.

So it's more like matter of a playstyle?
Well, I'll try to get used to it but I still really don't like it.

Also, could you point me to the post where Johnny refuted my points against Nether?

iirc he quoted your own words that you see a genuine town motivation behind doing what I do but choose to believe more into scum motivation.
And I tend to agree with that.
If you see both town and scum motivation behind some actions possible then why choosing one over another?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Explaining town-reads accomplishes nothing. Anybody can fake a town-read, whereas it's a lot more difficult for scum to fabricate a scum-read. Therefore, I like people to explain their scum-reads rather than me explain a town-read.

OK, so that's a reason not to explain townreads

unless somebody asks you to.

If explaining townreads doesn't accomplish anything, why not just humor the people who are asking you and do it? Is there some downside to explaining townreads I'm not seeing here?

There is a point to explaining townreads, because scum have to fake townreads just as much as they have to fake scumreads -- they have to make townreads look like they're coming from scumhunting and not from actual knowledge of the person's alignment.

Nah, it's very easy to fake town-reads. 'X is town because town-vibes from their posting, they look like they're trying to scum-hunt, they're asking lots of questions, gut-read' etc etc. ANYBODY can easily fake a town-read.

It's much more difficult to create a scum-read on someone you KNOW to be town when you're scum.